11 points about Israel,Lebanon and Palestinians

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LePetitPrince
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15 Jan 2009, 7:01 am

1) In the Middle East it is always the Arabs who attack first and always Israel that is defending themselves. This defense is called a reprisal.

2) Israel has the right to kill civilians. That is called "legitimate defense" , never terrorism.

3) When Israel kills civilians en masse, the western powers claim that it is more measured. This is called "reaction of the international community."

4) The Palestinians and the Lebanese have no right to capture soldiers of Israel inside military installations with sentries and combat posts. This is called, "Kidnapping of defenseless people."

5) Israel has the right to kidnap anytime and anywhere as many Lebanese and Palestinians as they want. Currently there are more than 10 thousand, 300 of whom are children and a thousand are women. No proof of guilt is needed. Israel has the right to keep kidnapped prisoners indefinitely, even if they are authorities democratically elected by the Palestinians. This is called "terrorist prisoners."

6) When the word Hezbollah is mentioned, it is compulsory in the same sentence to contain the words "supported and financed by Syria and by Iran."

7) When you mention "Israel" it is forbidden to make any mention of the words "supported and financed by the U.S." This may give the impression that the conflict is uneven and that Israel's existence is not in danger.

8) When referring to Israel, expressions that are prohibited: "Occupied Territories," "Violations of UN resolutions," "Violations of human rights" or "Geneva Convention."

9) Both the Palestinians and the Lebanese are always "cowardly," they are hidden among the civilian population, which does not want them. If they sleep in their homes, with their families, that gives them the name of "cowards." Israel has a right to destroy with bombs and missiles the neighborhoods where they are sleeping. This is called a "precision surgical action."

10) The Israelis speak better English, French, Spanish or Portuguese than the Arabs. Therefore they and those who support them must be interviewed more and have more opportunities than the Arabs to explain the present Rules of the Editorial Staff (from 1 to 10) to the general public. That is called "journalistic neutrality."

11) All those who are not in accordance with the Rules of Writing above are "highly dangerous anti-Semitic terrorists."



ruveyn
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15 Jan 2009, 7:10 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
1) In the Middle East it is always the Arabs who attack first and always Israel that is defending themselves. This defense is called a reprisal.

2) Israel has the right to kill civilians. That is called "legitimate defense" , never terrorism.

3) When Israel kills civilians en masse, the western powers claim that it is more measured. This is called "reaction of the international community."

4) The Palestinians and the Lebanese have no right to capture soldiers of Israel inside military installations with sentries and combat posts. This is called, "Kidnapping of defenseless people."

5) Israel has the right to kidnap anytime and anywhere as many Lebanese and Palestinians as they want. Currently there are more than 10 thousand, 300 of whom are children and a thousand are women. No proof of guilt is needed. Israel has the right to keep kidnapped prisoners indefinitely, even if they are authorities democratically elected by the Palestinians. This is called "terrorist prisoners."

6) When the word Hezbollah is mentioned, it is compulsory in the same sentence to contain the words "supported and financed by Syria and by Iran."

7) When you mention "Israel" it is forbidden to make any mention of the words "supported and financed by the U.S." This may give the impression that the conflict is uneven and that Israel's existence is not in danger.

8) When referring to Israel, expressions that are prohibited: "Occupied Territories," "Violations of UN resolutions," "Violations of human rights" or "Geneva Convention."

9) Both the Palestinians and the Lebanese are always "cowardly," they are hidden among the civilian population, which does not want them. If they sleep in their homes, with their families, that gives them the name of "cowards." Israel has a right to destroy with bombs and missiles the neighborhoods where they are sleeping. This is called a "precision surgical action."

10) The Israelis speak better English, French, Spanish or Portuguese than the Arabs. Therefore they and those who support them must be interviewed more and have more opportunities than the Arabs to explain the present Rules of the Editorial Staff (from 1 to 10) to the general public. That is called "journalistic neutrality."

11) All those who are not in accordance with the Rules of Writing above are "highly dangerous anti-Semitic terrorists."


You left out 12. The Israelis are civilized and the Hamas thugs are not.

ruveyn



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16 Jan 2009, 3:12 am

I heard the death toll of Palestinians was over 1000 while the death toll of the Israelis was around 16 just after 19 days of war in the Gaza Strip. Now that's a startling figure when you compare!


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16 Jan 2009, 5:17 am

ruveyn wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
1) In the Middle East it is always the Arabs who attack first and always Israel that is defending themselves. This defense is called a reprisal.

2) Israel has the right to kill civilians. That is called "legitimate defense" , never terrorism.

3) When Israel kills civilians en masse, the western powers claim that it is more measured. This is called "reaction of the international community."

4) The Palestinians and the Lebanese have no right to capture soldiers of Israel inside military installations with sentries and combat posts. This is called, "Kidnapping of defenseless people."

5) Israel has the right to kidnap anytime and anywhere as many Lebanese and Palestinians as they want. Currently there are more than 10 thousand, 300 of whom are children and a thousand are women. No proof of guilt is needed. Israel has the right to keep kidnapped prisoners indefinitely, even if they are authorities democratically elected by the Palestinians. This is called "terrorist prisoners."

6) When the word Hezbollah is mentioned, it is compulsory in the same sentence to contain the words "supported and financed by Syria and by Iran."

7) When you mention "Israel" it is forbidden to make any mention of the words "supported and financed by the U.S." This may give the impression that the conflict is uneven and that Israel's existence is not in danger.

8) When referring to Israel, expressions that are prohibited: "Occupied Territories," "Violations of UN resolutions," "Violations of human rights" or "Geneva Convention."

9) Both the Palestinians and the Lebanese are always "cowardly," they are hidden among the civilian population, which does not want them. If they sleep in their homes, with their families, that gives them the name of "cowards." Israel has a right to destroy with bombs and missiles the neighborhoods where they are sleeping. This is called a "precision surgical action."

10) The Israelis speak better English, French, Spanish or Portuguese than the Arabs. Therefore they and those who support them must be interviewed more and have more opportunities than the Arabs to explain the present Rules of the Editorial Staff (from 1 to 10) to the general public. That is called "journalistic neutrality."

11) All those who are not in accordance with the Rules of Writing above are "highly dangerous anti-Semitic terrorists."


You left out 12. The Israelis are civilized and the Hamas thugs are not.

ruveyn

Israel has been violating the Geneva Convention for such a long time. Israeli's seem not to care about people basic human rights at all. The Israeli government has been committing war crimes and people seem not to care. People like ruveyn don't care. Hamas was elected through democratic elections basically. Palestinian didn't elect the correct group to govern them, according to Israel and the USA. Therefore, they are "thugs" and "terrorists" Hamas aren't really thugs, they're just trying to protect their land and people that the Israeli's have been murdering and occupying their lands.

Ruveyn, how do you conclude that the Israeli's are all civilized, while Hamas is not? Hamas basically want the Palestinian land back that Israel took from them. Israel is currently bombing the crap out of Gaza and murdering thousands of civilians. That doesn't sound to civilized to me.

Israeli's are the thugs and war criminals, who won't get tried for war crimes. The Geneva Convention seems not to apply to Israel. Israeli's are the true terrorists in the middle east.


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16 Jan 2009, 5:56 am

Dokken wrote:
Hamas basically want the Palestinian land back that Israel took from them.


No, Hamas basically(and literally) wants all the Israelis dead, and they want all the land. All of it. Read their constitution. They are quite frank about it.

It is possible for a people to democratically elect a group of people that are bad for them. Perhaps Hamas acts according to the wishes of the Palestinians. That is not for me to say. But it doesnt mean that those actions are very good in the long run, does it? Bush wasnt very good for the Americans either. Here in Canada we may someday be stupid enough to elect the NDP. Unlikely as that seems.

The Germans Godwined themselves into history with the legit election of a certain party as well. They certainly felt it was a wise action at the time. Does history prove them right? No it did not.

Now the possibility exists that Hamas eventually effects positive change for the Palestinians.

So lets examine that. What can Hamas possibly do for the Palestinians to end the conflict once and for all, forever? This is not a rhetorical question. Can you formulate an answer? Can anyone?

What can Hamas do to achieve much deserved peace for Palestine?


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psych
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16 Jan 2009, 6:26 am

I came across this very well written article today

Quote:
NEARLY 70 years ago, in the course of World War II, a heinous crime was committed in the city of Leningrad.

For more than 1,000 days, a gang of extremists called the Red Army held millions of the town's inhabitants hostage and provoked retaliation from the German Wehrmacht from inside the population centres. The Germans had no alternative but to bomb and shell the population and to impose a total blockade, which caused the death of hundreds of thousands.

Some time before that, a similar crime had been committed in England. The Churchill gang hid among the population of London, misusing the millions of citizens as a human shield. Germany was compelled to send its Luftwaffe and reluctantly reduce the city to ruins. They called it the Blitz.

This is the description that would now appear in the history books if nazi Germany had won the war. Absurd? No more than the daily descriptions in Israel's media, which are being repeated ad nauseam.....

.....

Later, the official liar claimed that "our soldiers were shot at from inside the school." Barely a day passed before the army had to admit to UN personnel that this was a lie too. Nobody had shot from inside the school and no Hamas fighters were inside the school, which was full of terrified refugees.

But the admission made hardly any difference any more. By that time, the Israeli public was completely convinced that "they shot from inside the school" and TV announcers stated this as a simple fact.

So it went with the other atrocities. Every baby metamorphosed, in the act of dying, into a Hamas terrorist. Every bombed mosque instantly became a Hamas base, every apartment building an arms cache, every school a terror command post, every civilian government building a "symbol of Hamas rule." Thus the Israeli army retained its purity as the "most moral army in the world."
....


http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news ... _slaughter



Fuzzy
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16 Jan 2009, 7:32 am

psych wrote:
I came across this very well written article today

Quote:
NEARLY 70 years ago, in the course of World War II, a heinous crime was committed in the city of Leningrad.

For more than 1,000 days, a gang of extremists called the Red Army held millions of the town's inhabitants hostage and provoked retaliation from the German Wehrmacht from inside the population centres. The Germans had no alternative but to bomb and shell the population and to impose a total blockade, which caused the death of hundreds of thousands.

Some time before that, a similar crime had been committed in England. The Churchill gang hid among the population of London, misusing the millions of citizens as a human shield. Germany was compelled to send its Luftwaffe and reluctantly reduce the city to ruins. They called it the Blitz.

This is the description that would now appear in the history books if nazi Germany had won the war. Absurd? No more than the daily descriptions in Israel's media, which are being repeated ad nauseam.....

.....

Later, the official liar claimed that "our soldiers were shot at from inside the school." Barely a day passed before the army had to admit to UN personnel that this was a lie too. Nobody had shot from inside the school and no Hamas fighters were inside the school, which was full of terrified refugees.

But the admission made hardly any difference any more. By that time, the Israeli public was completely convinced that "they shot from inside the school" and TV announcers stated this as a simple fact.

So it went with the other atrocities. Every baby metamorphosed, in the act of dying, into a Hamas terrorist. Every bombed mosque instantly became a Hamas base, every apartment building an arms cache, every school a terror command post, every civilian government building a "symbol of Hamas rule." Thus the Israeli army retained its purity as the "most moral army in the world."
....


http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news ... _slaughter


Brutal argument in that article psych. Thanks for sharing that.


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Dokken
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16 Jan 2009, 5:43 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
Dokken wrote:
Hamas basically want the Palestinian land back that Israel took from them.


No, Hamas basically(and literally) wants all the Israelis dead, and they want all the land. All of it. Read their constitution. They are quite frank about it.

It is possible for a people to democratically elect a group of people that are bad for them. Perhaps Hamas acts according to the wishes of the Palestinians. That is not for me to say. But it doesnt mean that those actions are very good in the long run, does it? Bush wasnt very good for the Americans either. Here in Canada we may someday be stupid enough to elect the NDP. Unlikely as that seems.

The Germans Godwined themselves into history with the legit election of a certain party as well. They certainly felt it was a wise action at the time. Does history prove them right? No it did not.

Now the possibility exists that Hamas eventually effects positive change for the Palestinians.

So lets examine that. What can Hamas possibly do for the Palestinians to end the conflict once and for all, forever? This is not a rhetorical question. Can you formulate an answer? Can anyone?

What can Hamas do to achieve much deserved peace for Palestine?


Did you use the term Godwined so you wouldn't have to write Nazi's and/or Hitler? Anyways, you made a Nazi and/or Hitler comparison where it wasn't needed, and you did it right away. Could of at least waited a little bit before doing it :lol:


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16 Jan 2009, 6:11 pm

Nice work PP however you left out # 13 and 14

13. Hamas intentionally killed 18 people in 5 years of rocket attacks, Israel didnt mean to kill 1000 civilians in the last few weeks so they have the moral high ground.

14. Warsaw was a ghetto, Gaza is a Palestinian autonomous territory


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16 Jan 2009, 7:53 pm

Your points may be legit, but the original action of creating Israel I disagree with.
Reasons:
1.Promised land? Only if you believe in the Judeo-Christian religions. I don't.
2.Ancestral home? It's also the ancestral home of the Palestinians. And who cares? It's called the present
3.The need for a place where Jews are safe? The conflict in Palestine nowadays was inevitable after taking their country like that.



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16 Jan 2009, 9:14 pm

protest_the_hero wrote:
Your points may be legit, but the original action of creating Israel I disagree with.
Reasons:
1.Promised land? Only if you believe in the Judeo-Christian religions. I don't.
2.Ancestral home? It's also the ancestral home of the Palestinians. And who cares? It's called the present
3.The need for a place where Jews are safe? The conflict in Palestine nowadays was inevitable after taking their country like that.


I dont quite understand this, You seem to impying that the OP is in favour of Israel, when in fact PP is making a very sarcastic critique against Israel.


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16 Jan 2009, 10:28 pm

Dokken wrote:

Did you use the term Godwined so you wouldn't have to write Nazi's and/or Hitler? Anyways, you made a Nazi and/or Hitler comparison where it wasn't needed, and you did it right away. Could of at least waited a little bit before doing it :lol:


:) i like to get the unpleasantness out of the way with right away. ;)

Using the term godwin was a slight joke, as I avoided (and it did not apply to) the holocaust. I felt it was probably one of the rare circumstances where one could talk about the nazi party because it pertained to a time before the ghettos and death camps had started. The current Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a war, very unbalanced, but certainly not an extermination. Its fair to compare the election of the nazi party to the election of Hamas. It does not pertain to a holocaust.

I do not think Hamas has the way to do that to Israel, and I dont think Israel has the will to do that to Palestine.

Now THAT was a real godwin reference. Back to the point.

The election of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei would have been a bad thing for the Weimar republic regardless. Their agenda of conquest was what put them to war with the rest of Europe and North America. Likewise, Hamas actions perpetuate conflict with Israel. Of course Israel's acts do as well.

I see the point of the godwin rule. Its hard to put the reference behind you when you broach the subject. I will do so now!

If you would please, sir Dokken, explain the benefits that Hamas can plausibly accrue for the Palestinians by continuing aggressive acts. Or make a bold statement of acquiescence that they cannot.


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17 Jan 2009, 4:39 am

Since before the partition of Palestine in '48 the Zionists have wanted the whole area as a Jewish state, they will continue until this accomplished, maybe we are not witnessing genocide but we are certainly witnessing the deliberate dispossession and removal of a culture. The conditions of Gaza and the West Bank may not be as bad as the various Nazi ghetto's but this is only a matter of degree.

Israel and the Western world should be ashamed of the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people during this century and last


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17 Jan 2009, 2:39 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
protest_the_hero wrote:
Your points may be legit, but the original action of creating Israel I disagree with.
Reasons:
1.Promised land? Only if you believe in the Judeo-Christian religions. I don't.
2.Ancestral home? It's also the ancestral home of the Palestinians. And who cares? It's called the present
3.The need for a place where Jews are safe? The conflict in Palestine nowadays was inevitable after taking their country like that.


I dont quite understand this, You seem to impying that the OP is in favour of Israel, when in fact PP is making a very sarcastic critique against Israel.
wow i just got that...*smacks head*



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17 Jan 2009, 3:31 pm

#15 and #16 topic

Palestinians are the dupes in this anus mundi of the world.

Hamacide is responsible for the deaths of Palestinians.


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17 Jan 2009, 3:32 pm

Dokken wrote:


Quote:
Israel has been violating the Geneva Convention for such a long time. Israeli's seem not to care about people basic human rights at all. The Israeli government has been committing war crimes and people seem not to care.


What makes this worse is here in the good ole' U.S. of A, Bush and Cheney get away with breaking by pardoning themselves. They should be put on trial at Nuremberg like any common criminal including Hitler. If they can get away with what they did at the Abu Ghraib prison, then there's pretty much no use for the Geneva Convention.


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