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Sorce
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24 Dec 2005, 11:20 am

Remnant wrote:
Sophist wrote:
I hate American politicians as much as anyone else. I wish the rest of the world would "get" that I'm on their side. Insulting me only makes me defensive and angry.

Why, I'm willing and happy to bash US politicians ANY day of the week. But when people generalize that "all Americans are this" or "all Americans are that," it's completely unfair and gets my goat if I truly feel like I'm included in that.


I am an American and I often feel like saying that. Americans are apathetic about bullying and even physical damage being done to their persons. "We" kill ourselves slowly with tobacco and alcohol by the millions and then want to deny people the right to own "dangerous animals" because they've killed a couple of dozen people in the last decade. We are not only apathetic about the development of a police state, it's a sweet dream in lollipop land for a lot of us. We're more concerned with finding people to punish for causing a problem, a lot more, than with growing up and doing something about it.


I agree with you that it is stupid banning what states deem dangerous animals. It's not going to make a difference because the animals aren't the problem. The problem is irresponsible dog owners who shouldn't be allowed to have pets period. Their animals attack someone, and some states can only have the owner charged with a misdemeanor. The animal is gonna be put to sleep but nothing stops the retard owner from getting another pet.



Epimonandas
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24 Dec 2005, 12:40 pm

SB2 wrote:
yes my good fellow, how can they?
i suppose that they are psychic?

it is the first time that i remember them being wrong.
and it is highly suspicious, the players involved.
the first time that i remember them being wrong.
highly suspicious
the players involved.


ii do not need the dewey defeats truman argument either.

technology and the instantaneous exchange of information makes it an apples and oranges comparison

in reply to what you said
Quote:
I suppose then, that even though the other networkds show '0%' of the votes reporting that they were psychic, which i always thought was stupid. How can one kow with 0% of the votes in?


That might be because the callled it with 0% of the votes in. They never did that either. I suspect they must have jumped the gun. I used to never see them call a state without a majority of the precincts reporting before, that time they did it without any precincts. It makes me suspect a democratic biased wishful thinking. By the way, it was during the first Gulf War, when i leaned much more democratically that i started calling Dan Rather, Dan Rather "Not tell the truth", as all his reports from that war seemed to be unsubstantiated gossip and he had to keep changing his report, much more so than ANYONE else.



Epimonandas
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24 Dec 2005, 1:09 pm

Remnant

You say that as if all americans Smoke or Drink or own animals irresponsibly. Its not an american thing to have stupid behaviors, its cause the US has free press and slow news days we hear about so many such things. But, i guarantee you, stupidity is a world wide epidemic, pick up say a copy of Stuff magazine or such, you can find stories of out right stupidity everywhere, actually i have seen many stories that are worse elsewhere than any i have heard in the US, like a guy advertising to canabalize someone in a first world nation, and someone responded, or children fighting to the death in blood matches between to racially different peoples along underpoliced border towns. But then, its not every American that does that, and even many smart people occasionally do stupid things. People can be genius in some things, and complete novices in others, its not always their fault that they even come across times where their igorance shows up. Granted some people are hopelessly stupid or cruel, but not all, please do not catagorize them so simply and altogether, even within stupidity there are many levels, degrees, and instances that few humans can avoid altogether. Many things can cause or contribute, including ASD, ADHD, blindness, handicapped, inexperience, undereducation, depression, poor treatment from others, etc.

Remnant and Sorce:

As far as panicing, humans have a tendency to do that enmasse and this has always been so. From trampling incidents caused by fire accidents, to the wholesale plunge of the international use of Fuel effecient Zepplins and Blimps after Hindenburg Disaster, to the Werewolf scare of the 12th and 13th centuries, to the Witch scare of the 14th through 17th centuries, to beliefs in vampires when the dead did not decompose in some types of environmental conditions, the McCarthy black list witch hunt style of condeming would be communists, incidents of lynchings, the abandonement of the Mayan cities from over population, to the behaviour of the Brits in virtually all their colonies when they sought to tame the savage, or when the British soldier fired on unarmed citizens in Boston in 1773 to spark a nation wide scare and a trial and eventually a war, to the rush to the sea of the citizens of Pompeii one fine day when a massive volcano covered the city, and on and on. History and the world are full of mass panic attacks similar to the dangerous animal story you describe, many much worse or to greater harm or scale.

Just a few facts to think about when making your arguements.



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24 Dec 2005, 9:44 pm

The best animal i had the opportunity to take care of was a rott. her name was Scully
after Vin Scully not Dana Scully.

She was an amazing friend and showed great patience with my children.

she would allow them to ride her horseback, climb all over her, and any other abuse a toddler can dream up.

i think that pets are what they are raised to be.

Some instinct is undenyable of course, but in my experience a rott. is one of the greatest animals to make friends with.

i miss her


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SB2
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25 Dec 2005, 12:03 am

Quote:
calling Dan Rather, Dan Rather "Not tell the truth", as all his reports from that war seemed to be unsubstantiated gossip and he had to keep changing his report, much more so than ANYONE else.


Then perhaps we should have seen the signs way back then, and showed a little more compassion for his early signs of Althzheimers.


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Sophist
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25 Dec 2005, 12:31 am

Actually a small town near St. Louis has banned rotweillers and pitbulls. Responsible owners are trying to fight the motion.

SB2 wrote:
civil servants


Hehehe, haven't heard that term used in ages in regards to "politician" unless there's a "not" somewhere in between. :lol: Sad it's come to that.


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Remnant
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25 Dec 2005, 4:04 am

Quote:
I agree with you that it is stupid banning what states deem dangerous animals. It's not going to make a difference because the animals aren't the problem. The problem is irresponsible dog owners who shouldn't be allowed to have pets period. Their animals attack someone, and some states can only have the owner charged with a misdemeanor. The animal is gonna be put to sleep but nothing stops the retard owner from getting another pet.


That's not quite true either. No matter how responsible you are, sometimes mistakes are made and things happen. They happen infrequently enough that there really isn't a problem, overall. This is something that we are able to see when it comes to horses. Children and adults are killed by horses once in a while and it usually doesn't make the national news. No one considers that a sign of someone being irresponsible. Accidents do happen.

The trick is that dysfunctional people hold entire groups of people criminally culpable for single incidents involving one animal and one owner. Whether the one owner was irresponsible or not, it is wrong to punish whole groups of people and their animals. Again, when it comes to horses or cattle, we can see that. We don't lie in wait for the next horse to kill someone then pounce on everyone who has horses.

America is about having a certain degree of tolerance. There are few things that are as within the spirit of America as taking a little bit of risk for great rewards. We risk our lives for abstract notions of civil rights and get a lot of people killed over them. Unfortunately and even stupidly we have trouble making the expressions of those rights concrete. It's like we won money and are afraid to spend it. Everything we might exercise those rights upon seems wrong, as if exercising our rights is spending a depletable resource instead of investing it. Where did we get that idea? From people who use group punishments to discipline others, ensuring not only that innocent people are punished but also that people get used to punishing innocent people. The system goes upside down. Being innocent of wrongdoing is more punishable than being guilty. This practice also works to force people to develop intolerance towards the mistake of others, for fear of being punished for them. Do that a few times and those who are repeatedly victimized wants those "responsible" to be killed for it. It's easy to get them to pass repressive laws. They learn who they can beat up with impunity and who they want to use as whipping boys. Unfortunately too many people don't point the finger at those who use such situations to gain power.



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25 Dec 2005, 4:37 am

[quote=Epimonandas]
That might be because the callled it with 0% of the votes in. They never did that either. I suspect they must have jumped the gun. I used to never see them call a state without a majority of the precincts reporting before, that time they did it without any precincts. It makes me suspect a democratic biased wishful thinking. By the way, it was during the first Gulf War, when i leaned much more democratically that i started calling Dan Rather, Dan Rather "Not tell the truth", as all his reports from that war seemed to be unsubstantiated gossip and he had to keep changing his report, much more so than ANYONE else.[/quote]

They do things like this on purpose. People who don't notice it go with the conviction that everything is on the up and up. Then they think of the people who do notice it as strange and wrong, not always without contrivance. Conspiracy theorists are manufactured this way. It's a royal screwing because it forces you to either be dishonest or to face ostracism.



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25 Dec 2005, 2:52 pm

I've become very cynical about politics and the media. Ya just don't know who's telling the least unbiased truth anymore (truth is in the eyes of the beholder after all).

Everybody's got an angle nowadays. Sigh. I'm just getting very tired.


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Laz
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25 Dec 2005, 6:08 pm

I have to say it is abit lame that you banned RobertN. I felt sorry for the horse carrying that bandwagon that everyone jumped on you could see it happening from a mile off.



Laz
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25 Dec 2005, 6:18 pm

Scoots5012 wrote:
Sanityisoverrated wrote:
I am a supporter of free speech, and I disagree with such actions by the mods. I would like to appeal on Robert's behalf.

Moderators are here to manage and organise posts, sticky them, etc - sort of like librarians. They are not police, and they should not be banning and suspending people like this, it is absurd.


Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but we have to try and keep the peace as best as possible. I'm sure you wouldn't want a forum where members run about unchecked. It would be a very ugly place indeed.

And Robert is not the only member here who has violated the rules that we've dealt with. We deal with things one incident at time and make the best decision we can. After previous complaints of moderator bias, were trying to make things more uniform, Robert is just first example of this. As much as you feel wronged for seeing robert getting suspended, others here have felt the same for some of the comments he's made.


Problem with a board that has moderators. They get alittle power trip and before you know it there is bias, regardless. I was on a board that for about 5+ years had only the admin and no moderators at all and it was pretty much a free for all but in those kind of environments a kind of unwritten law is developed anyway. Im afraid Ive seen this all too often that you get accusations of moderator bias the best thing to do is to minimise the moderation to minimum not one for every forum.
I can tell this forum has a Clique of people who have been here awhile, established members as it were, and if the moderators are established members themselves then there allegiance will naturally be with their buddies over anyone else. Not singling anyone out thats human nature get over it. I would just say its not terribly welcoming for the n00bs

Anyway thats just my 2 pence opinion



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25 Dec 2005, 8:15 pm

As far as moderator on this site goes, I'd like to think that if we really wanted to, we could bring the hammer down on this site. I've been a member of other boards too and they were all operated in a similar manner like this site is.

BUT - the difference being that these other boards were run with much stricter control than this site is.

The last board I was at before this one, Robert would have been banned permantly after about a month. In his case his been here much longer and it's only a ban for two weeks.

For NT people, such a setup might be fine, but here, our objective is to give the rejected a voice, no matter how controversial it might be. Moderating here is like walking a fine line.

Quote:
I can tell this forum has a Clique of people who have been here awhile, established members as it were, and if the moderators are established members themselves then there allegiance will naturally be with their buddies over anyone else.


I've been on this site for a very long time, and traditonally, the ratio of posters to members has always remained fairly constant and being a mod myself, I can't recall an incident where another mod personally advocated on the behalf of another member.

Yes this site has it's cliques, but from what I've observed, they're fairly insignificant.


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Ladysmokeater
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26 Dec 2005, 7:45 am

Sorce wrote:
RobertN wrote:
Well, I never go into the chat, so I don't know what happened.

If I were you, I would get used to it, and get used to it fast. I belong to a UK aspie forum as well, and we don't let Americans on because we hate them so much. The feeling is pretty universal outside America.

In the 80's and even 90's most people respected America, but now we are so fed up of you lot dictating to the rest of the world how we should do things. Fine, you can run your country how you like, but stop telling us Europeans that our "social model" is crap and that we should embrace your neo-liberal style capitalism, because we ain't going to buy it. We just get pissed off.


Here's a shout out to the angry aspie from the UK. :twisted:

Lee Greenwood:

Proud to be American

If tomorrow all the things were gone I’d worked for all my life,
And I had to start again with just my children and my wife.
I’d thank my lucky stars to be living here today,
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can’t take that away.

And I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.

From the lakes of Minnesota, to the hills of Tennessee,
across the plains of Texas, from sea to shining sea,

From Detroit down to Houston and New York to LA,
Well, there’s pride in every American heart,
and it’s time to stand and say:

I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land

God bless the U.S.A.!



Here here!! We arent perfect, but no one is!



QuirkyCarla
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27 Dec 2005, 1:21 am

Sophist wrote:
I hate American politicians as much as anyone else. I wish the rest of the world would "get" that I'm on their side. Insulting me only makes me defensive and angry.

Why, I'm willing and happy to bash US politicians ANY day of the week. But when people generalize that "all Americans are this" or "all Americans are that," it's completely unfair and gets my goat if I truly feel like I'm included in that.


I agree with you 100%.



Remnant
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27 Dec 2005, 3:31 am

To know that I am free I would actually have to be free. Some people don't seem to have that requirement.



ascan
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27 Dec 2005, 4:53 am

Scoots5012 wrote:
As far as moderator on this site goes, I'd like to think that if we really wanted to, we could bring the hammer down on this site.


Are you trying to frighten us? :roll: