Do you believe that Stars are alive(including our Sun)?

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24 Feb 2009, 11:59 am

Im really curious why mystical new-age folks believe so strongly that the Earth is alive and some crackpot scientists take this seriously but NO ONE ELSE except me has speculated/believed in the possibility that Stars are alive. Unlike planets, stars reproduce!

Sand
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24 Feb 2009, 12:37 pm

Haliphron wrote:

No one believes it because the actuality of stars reproducing all over the night sky would scandalize the religious right. Such open stellar pornography would blight the morality of young children who are kept in absolute ignorance of reproductive procedures. If the FCC got word of stars(especially under-age stars) reproducing there would be a nationwide scandal.

Fnord
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24 Feb 2009, 1:08 pm

Stars reproduce?

Evidence, Please?

Haliphron
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24 Feb 2009, 1:12 pm

Fnord wrote:

Stars reproduce?

Evidence, Please?

Star-forming regions in outer space take place in nebulae left behind after a star *dies*. Either by means of a Supernova or a dwarf star. The necessary ingredient though is a high enough ambient concentration of hydrogen gas. A good example of this is the Orion Nebula :wink:

. How much do you know about astronomy, Fnord?

But what I dont get is WHY people are willing to believe that the earth is alive(including some scientists)but not stars........

Dussel
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24 Feb 2009, 1:14 pm

Haliphron wrote:

"No one else"? You should read the Greek myths with Helios (sun) and other gods like Saturnius, Mercurius, etc.

---

But how do define "Being alive"?

Fnord
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24 Feb 2009, 1:18 pm

Haliphron wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Stars reproduce?

Evidence, Please?

. How much do you know about astronomy, Fnord?

A considerable amount.

When you said "reproduce", I thought you were going to refer to some mystical exchange of stellar DNA, rather than the coalescence of nebulous matter, which was left over from a previous star's demise.

Dussel
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24 Feb 2009, 1:29 pm

Fnord wrote:

When you said "reproduce", I thought you were going to refer to some mystical exchange of stellar DNA, rather than the coalescence of nebulous matter, which was left over from a previous star's demise.

When we try to understand the term "live" we may had to look what we call "alive" and what not. Let say my neighbour's cat and the cup standing in front of me: The cat is acting actively to maintain it's existence (hunting birds, begging for food, running away from cars). The same is even to say about a tree, which extract actively substances out of the soil to maintain it's existence. The cup in from of me does not act in anyway actively, the cup is subject to outer influences. It is not able to maintain it's current structure. The same is to say e.g. of a stone.

So maintaining it's own existence in an active manner with the clear purpose ro uphold this existence is necessary feature of "live".

Coming back to the question: Are stars and planets alive? Stars and planets do not have any active process in which they purposefully maintain their existence, therefore they be called alive.

Last edited by Dussel on 24 Feb 2009, 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Legato
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24 Feb 2009, 1:31 pm

Haliphron wrote:

Im really curious why mystical new-age folks believe so strongly that the Earth is alive and some crackpot scientists take this seriously but NO ONE ELSE except me has speculated/believed in the possibility that Stars are alive. Unlike planets, stars reproduce!

I believed stars were alive when I was a pantheist\gaia believer (probably... 3 or 4 years ago). Indeed, stars were the focal point of my spirituality back then (although, strangely, I didn't believe in any astrology crap).

ruveyn
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24 Feb 2009, 1:32 pm

Haliphron wrote:

They "reproduce" only in the sense that the debris from an n-th generation star evenutually may form into an n+1 -th generation star. In every other respect, starts are hot non-alive matter. They are gravitationally mediated fusion reactors.

ruveyn

Haliphron
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24 Feb 2009, 3:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Haliphron wrote:

But they DO have an internal structure AND they have a form of (nuclear)metabolism so in more ways they one they have much in common with (albeit primitive)living things...

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24 Feb 2009, 4:19 pm

Haliphron wrote:

But they DO have an internal structure AND they have a form of (nuclear)metabolism so in more ways they one they have much in common with (albeit primitive)living things...

Having an internal structure is necessary but not sufficient for being alive. Rocks have internal structure and they are not alive. A living entity must behave in such a way as to be in thermodynamic disequilibrium with its surroundings and it must replicate. Starts satisfy the first condition (at least until they explode or become dark neutron stars) but do not satisfy the second condition. Stars are not alive. But they are active for long periods of time.

ruveyn

greenblue
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24 Feb 2009, 5:00 pm

Haliphron wrote:

NO ONE ELSE except me has speculated/believed in the possibility that Stars are alive. Unlike planets, stars reproduce!

well, the issue is that reproduction is only one of several criteria of life, from a human biological standpoint, given that stars don't seem to be structurally composed by cells, that should be enough to rule it out from the definition of what we consider Life, at least according to human biological standards, the question is, can it be said that stars are capable of responding to stimuli, as it happens with living organisms?

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Magnus
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24 Feb 2009, 6:00 pm

Stars are alive and they die too.

ruveyn
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24 Feb 2009, 8:20 pm

Magnus wrote:

Stars are alive and they die too.

Stars are active gravity driven fusion reactors. They have a beginning, a middle, and an end.

ruveyn

Haliphron
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24 Feb 2009, 8:21 pm

greenblue wrote:

Haliphron wrote:

NO ONE ELSE except me has speculated/believed in the possibility that Stars are alive. Unlike planets, stars reproduce!

As far as cellularity is concerned one might think of a star as being an analogue of a primitive, incadescent, gaseous *cell* all its own. I cannot think of any stimulus that would be powerful enough to effect a star other than massive cosmic objects and/or a VERY intense electromagnetic field though. The thing about stars is that most of the energy that they consume they release into outer space and they are constantly exhaling plasma by means of coronal mass ejection.

iamnotaparakeet
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24 Feb 2009, 9:53 pm

Haliphron wrote:

The "mother earth" stuff is quite annoying, but I haven't heard much of it since the mid 90's in an episode of Bill Nye The Science Guy. Are you serious about stars being alive, or facetious?

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