Trump a liar again: "Pocahontas" really is Native American

Page 5 of 9 [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

kokopelli
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,657
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind

17 Oct 2018, 4:19 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
Using this data, the original analysis, which was prepared by a respected geneticist, determined that five segments of Sen. Warren's DNA -- totaling about 12.3 million bases ("letters") -- are of Native American ancestry. That might sound like a lot, but the human genome contains more than 3.2 billion bases, which means that only about 0.4% of Sen. Warren's DNA sequence can be attributed to Native American ancestry.


Obviously a bogus article that ignores science. If the DNA of a Native American was 100% different from someone of European ancestry, then that objection would make sense. In reality, most of the genes in DNA are not specific to any one group and can't be used to identify a group.

The tribes can't permit DNA testing, because most American DNA is so washed out by Euro DNA.


They don't permit the DNA to qualify for membership in a tribe because it is not specific to any one tribe. From your DNA, they may know that you are a Native American to some degree, but they cannot determine from it with any specificity at all whether or not your Native American ancestors were members of any one tribe.



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

17 Oct 2018, 4:45 pm

Fnord wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Obviously a bogus article that ignores science. If the DNA of a Native American was 100% different from someone of European ancestry, then that objection would make sense. In reality, most of the genes in DNA are not specific to any one group and can't be used to identify a group.
Actually, the DNA of First Nations is rather unique ... it contains a certain specific mix of Eastern European and Asian DNA that is found nowhere else in the world. Thus, if the complete form of this specific mix is found in a person, then chances are that the person is a First Nations member. But if only a few fragments of this mix are present, then the person may not have enough First Nations DNA to qualify as a member.

I, for example, have less than 5% First Nations ancestry, which makes it only a statistical fact, and not a significant one. AFAIK, no tribe will recognize me as one of theirs.

Kopopelli posted that, not me.


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

17 Oct 2018, 4:51 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
Using this data, the original analysis, which was prepared by a respected geneticist, determined that five segments of Sen. Warren's DNA -- totaling about 12.3 million bases ("letters") -- are of Native American ancestry. That might sound like a lot, but the human genome contains more than 3.2 billion bases, which means that only about 0.4% of Sen. Warren's DNA sequence can be attributed to Native American ancestry.


Obviously a bogus article that ignores science. If the DNA of a Native American was 100% different from someone of European ancestry, then that objection would make sense. In reality, most of the genes in DNA are not specific to any one group and can't be used to identify a group.

The tribes can't permit DNA testing, because most American DNA is so washed out by Euro DNA.

This Cherokee Indian, Oklahoma Republican U.S. Rep. Markwayne Mullin, still lives on an Indian reservation .. yet .. he could pass as a "white guy" ...

Image


I think you pretty much made the case for Warren.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

17 Oct 2018, 5:11 pm

kokopelli wrote:
[
They don't permit the DNA to qualify for membership in a tribe because it is not specific to any one tribe. From your DNA, they may know that you are a Native American to some degree, but they cannot determine from it with any specificity at all whether or not your Native American ancestors were members of any one tribe.

You would think the first test would a DNA test to see if you have any significant Indian DNA.

However, this could potentially ruin many already accepted "Indians", because, just because your ancestor was partly Indian, doesn't mean you inherited those genes.


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.


LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

17 Oct 2018, 5:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I think you pretty much made the case for Warren.

This guy has his docs. His family was already on the Indian reservation.

Why aren't you demanding Warren's resignation for impersonating a minority?

-She has no docs.
-She made no effort.
-She appears to use her "minority status" for her benefit ("minority professor"/"person of color")
-She tells funny stories, like, how her mom and dad's families supposedly wanted to break up her parent's marriage, because her mom is part Cherokee (though fact-checkers found this story to be implausible and common sense makes it laughable)
-She upsets these groups by trying to use DNA as the means to prove her ancestry, when they don't rely on biological traits, rather, just simply ancestry
-She has turned the whole "identity politics" upside down with the notion that "minority" = "any minuscule trace of minority DNA"
-She seems to exemplify "white privilege" of using 1/1024 trace of minority DNA to call herself a "minority".

Where's the outrage?


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.


kokopelli
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,657
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind

17 Oct 2018, 6:39 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
You would think the first test would a DNA test to see if you have any significant Indian DNA.


What? All a DNA test can do is indicate roughly what percentage of Native American you might be. It does nothing to indicate which Native American tribe your ancestors were members of. The only thing they could tell the tribe is whether or not there is any possibility that you might be a member of some Native American tribe.



kokopelli
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,657
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind

17 Oct 2018, 6:41 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Elizabeth Warren is not an Indian. End of story.

The more I read about it, she seems like Rachel Dozier.

Dozier parents never told her she had African American.Warren’s relations told her she had Native blood.

I have never found anywhere , where Warren's parents told her she's a "Cherokee".

She seems to have completely made it up.

She has even called herself, "Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee".

Like, she needs you to know that she's special.


How many people grow up with tv cameras recording everything?



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

17 Oct 2018, 7:42 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think you pretty much made the case for Warren.

This guy has his docs. His family was already on the Indian reservation.

Why aren't you demanding Warren's resignation for impersonating a minority?

-She has no docs.
-She made no effort.
-She appears to use her "minority status" for her benefit ("minority professor"/"person of color")
-She tells funny stories, like, how her mom and dad's families supposedly wanted to break up her parent's marriage, because her mom is part Cherokee (though fact-checkers found this story to be implausible and common sense makes it laughable)
-She upsets these groups by trying to use DNA as the means to prove her ancestry, when they don't rely on biological traits, rather, just simply ancestry
-She has turned the whole "identity politics" upside down with the notion that "minority" = "any minuscule trace of minority DNA"
-She seems to exemplify "white privilege" of using 1/1024 trace of minority DNA to call herself a "minority".

Where's the outrage?


I save my outrage for things that actually matter, such as racial and economic based voter disenfranchisement, threats to cut the social safety net after the rich were given unnecessary tax cuts, and the current administration's collusion with various strong men on the world scene, etc.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


jamthis12
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 12 Oct 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 277
Location: Arizona

17 Oct 2018, 10:47 pm

Yeah not to be dismissive about this, but it's only still an issue because the cheesepuff in chief keeps on bringing it up. I don't like what she's done, but her being a personal target by Trump makes me like her more. It shows that he really hates her, which if Trump hates someone or something probably means it's a good thing. Plus it looks like she might be a decent Democratic candidate in 2020.


_________________
Rdos: Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 79 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

17 Oct 2018, 11:33 pm

kokopelli wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
You would think the first test would a DNA test to see if you have any significant Indian DNA.


What? All a DNA test can do is indicate roughly what percentage of Native American you might be. It does nothing to indicate which Native American tribe your ancestors were members of. The only thing they could tell the tribe is whether or not there is any possibility that you might be a member of some Native American tribe.

Right, even if you could establish that your parents are Native Americans, and from tribe X, it doesn't mean you inherited those genes. You may have 0% Indian DNA.

So, a DNA test should be the first test.


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

18 Oct 2018, 2:28 am

Warren let Trump sucker her into making a fool out of herself. She was easily manipulated.



jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,559
Location: Indiana

18 Oct 2018, 8:37 am

The real story is that Warren’s DNA was compared to Latin Americans, not Native Americans.

“The genetics researcher who reviewed Senator Elizabeth Warren’s, D-Mass, DNA in an attempt to counter President Trump’s ‘Pocahontas’ jibes compared her samples with those from people in Colombia, Mexico, and Peru rather than Native Americans in the U.S.,” the Washington Examiner reported.

“[The researcher] however, didn’t compare Ms. Warren’s DNA against Native Americans who live in the continental U.S., citing cultural reluctance to submit to DNA tests. Instead, he used recent samples from other countries whose populations presumably share a lineage during human settlement of the Americas about 15,000-25,000 years ago,” the newspaper noted.


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."


AspE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,114

18 Oct 2018, 9:20 am

jimmy m wrote:
The real story is that Warren’s DNA was compared to Latin Americans, not Native Americans.

“The genetics researcher who reviewed Senator Elizabeth Warren’s, D-Mass, DNA in an attempt to counter President Trump’s ‘Pocahontas’ jibes compared her samples with those from people in Colombia, Mexico, and Peru rather than Native Americans in the U.S.,” the Washington Examiner reported.

“[The researcher] however, didn’t compare Ms. Warren’s DNA against Native Americans who live in the continental U.S., citing cultural reluctance to submit to DNA tests. Instead, he used recent samples from other countries whose populations presumably share a lineage during human settlement of the Americas about 15,000-25,000 years ago,” the newspaper noted.

Native Americans lived all over North and South America and often married outside the tribe. This is a non-issue from a scientific perspective.



Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,471
Location: Aux Arcs

18 Oct 2018, 11:00 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Elizabeth Warren is not an Indian. End of story.

The more I read about it, she seems like Rachel Dozier.

Dozier parents never told her she had African American.Warren’s relations told her she had Native blood.

I have never found anywhere , where Warren's parents told her she's a "Cherokee".

She seems to have completely made it up.

She has even called herself, "Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee".

Like, she needs you to know that she's special.

She says that her family did.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,471
Location: Aux Arcs

18 Oct 2018, 11:12 am

To apply for recognition with the Cherokee Nation you must have a relative on the Dawes roll.So many people in the nation may have more white than Cherokee.
All it takes is one documented ancestor.
I don’t have an ancestor on Dawes, we were here in the Ozarks in the first Cherokee nation which was later moved to OK.Many people hid their ancestry since there was stigma at that time for being Native.So sometimes it’s very hard to find paper documents.People who were mixed blood at that time were more worried about passing as white than their preserving their heritage.
http://webtest2.cherokee.org/Services/T ... itizenship


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,559
Location: Indiana

18 Oct 2018, 12:49 pm

There is an old saying "Garbage In Equals Garbage Out". If the genetic testing did not include the DNA of pure blood American Indians, I do not know how this test to confirm a person's origin can prove anything, in regards to American Indian origin. It is all very highly speculative at best.


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."