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Mikah
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19 Jun 2021, 5:48 pm

North Korean defector survives epic escape from North Korea as teenager, attends Ivy League university and ... looks favourably on North Korean propaganda by comparison. It sounds like an article from The Onion, but it isn't.

https://news.yahoo.com/north-korean-def ... 20135.html

North Korean defector says 'even North Korea was not this nuts' after attending Ivy League school

As American educational institutions continue to be called into question, a North Korean defector fears the United States' future "is as bleak as North Korea" after she attended one of the country's most prestigious universities.

Yeonmi Park has experienced plenty of struggle and hardship, but she does not call herself a victim.

One of several hundred North Korean defectors settled in the United States, Park, 27, transferred to Columbia University from a South Korean university in 2016 and was deeply disturbed by what she found.

"I expected that I was paying this fortune, all this time and energy, to learn how to think. But they are forcing you to think the way they want you to think," Park said in an interview with Fox News. "I realized, wow, this is insane. I thought America was different but I saw so many similarities to what I saw in North Korea that I started worrying."

...

She was also shocked and confused by issues surrounding gender and language, with every class asking students to announce their preferred pronouns.

"English is my third language. I learned it as an adult. I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

"It was chaos," said Yeonmi. "It felt like the regression in civilization."

"Even North Korea is not this nuts," she admitted. "North Korea was pretty crazy, but not this crazy."


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funeralxempire
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19 Jun 2021, 8:21 pm

Now I'm curious where she'd prefer to live. :chin:


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old_comedywriter
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19 Jun 2021, 8:34 pm

Probably Florida...


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19 Jun 2021, 8:54 pm

old_comedywriter wrote:
Probably Florida...


LMAO. Just like a lot of other people living in New York.



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19 Jun 2021, 9:40 pm

I saw that story before.

Left college ages ago so I dont know what its like now. But if its as crazy with PC as is sometimes reported then its crazy.

Like Mars seems to an Earthling.

But she is from North Korea. A crazy place itself. So american colleges, instead of being crazy squared to her, are like...not like Mars, but like Saturns moon Titan to an Earthling. SO different in so many ways from Earth that the differences cancel each other out and make the place seem oddly like home on planet earth. :lol:



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20 Jun 2021, 1:47 am

"I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

Seems like they're already quite capable of using "they" to refer to other people...

But hey, somebody printed it, so it HAS to be true!



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20 Jun 2021, 6:56 am

People do not believe how brainwashed they are in this western world as the brainwashing media have robbed ones ability to rasionally think for oneself.
I joined this site knowing that the UK had already gone down this communistic route, but in the two years I have been on this site, I have seen by the way people are regularly attacked for thinking in different ways to the "Brainwashed ways" that I realized just how effective this can be and is.
Most people on this site just can't think outside the brainwashing box and see that sexual gender, race, religion and other subjects have been and are used as tools to brainwash the western world. Many of you can't see that it is not the subject itself that is wrong, but the way the subject has been or is used to attack others who think outside of the box or who have different oppinions to the new communistic brainwashing regeme who are attacked by those who have been brainwashed, and what shocks me is how people just can't see it and why and how it is working so effectively.

When I have tried to explain on a particualr subject of how brainwashing is used, and in one case recently it was about ones sexuality (Gender) many of you thought I was attacking you personally when it had nothing to do with that, because you could not get your mind to see what was going on and how gender was being used as a tool. (Look. I can't care less about what gender one is. To me you are a person regardless of what gender you either are or think you are or want to be as gender as you just could not see HOW gender had been used as a brainwashing tool to attack those who held onto traditional values. Let me put this in perspective. If I like the colour red and you like the colour blue, why am I discriminating against anyone who likes blue because I am not stopping you from liking blue. Just who is discriminating against whom when the lovers of the colour blue launch their attack? This is how the brainwashing system works as once one lover of blue launches an attack under the "Discriminatory banner" other brainwashed people who can't see that it is not about the subject colour, but it is about the freedom of choice to decide for onesself which has been erroded by this brainwashed regeime, and somehow they just can't see it. To outsiders who have been there and done that and come away from it so they can see the patterns and where the patterns lead can see it and it is pretty obvious... But most of you through brainwashed reasoning just can't see how you are being brainwashed).

Ok. So just how are the news and the education systems being used for brainwashing techniques and why is it so effective and why are so many of the younger generations falling for it and why do those who hold onto traditional values find themselves under attack in what is "Claimed to be" a free country?
To understand this, while I will bring in subjects like race, gender and religion and even politics, one has to get ones mind to pretend you are neutral to understand what is going on. I can do this easily and it is how I see the patterns of brainwashing and where they lead and why they are using these subjects as tools to attack the innocent who in a free society have the rights to think how they want. Brainwashing uses the brainwashed to attack the free thinkers to comply.
Communism has adopted this method and has used it for years and years, and it is all based on false reasoning.

Question. In a free country, what rights do you have to attack those who think differently to you and do not agree with your way of thinking? Because in a free country, you should be celebrating and defending the rights for others to speak out on what they believe without the fear of attack from others. In a free society everyone has these rights and it is only if one acts upon their rights of expression in an unlawful way that should be stopped.
A communistic country is not a free country. One is not allowed to think outside the box and express oneself if it does not adhere to the communistic rules.
Communism uses reasoning as a brainwashing tool and they start this with children.
This is a simple example...
Little Tommy likes the red fire engine. He loves playing with it. He loves red as it is his favourite colour. All the other fire engines are yellow. The other children love yellow. One of them starts painting the red fire engine yellow to comply with their love of yellow. Tommy gets upset.

Now in a school that encourages fairness and free thinking the teacher will stop the other kids painting the last fire engine yellow and say to the other kids "No. You already have your own fire engines and they are yellow as you like yellow. Tommy only likes red fire engines, so leave this one red for him to enjoy and play with". The children who prefer yellow would be told off for being unreasonable in a free thinking society.

But in a communistic society, the teaching methods are different. Tommy would be pulled aside and reasoned with. He would be told something like "All the other fire engines are yellow. Why are you trying to be awkward? Why don't you like the children who like yellow?" (And when he is older it will be "Why are you discriminating against the ones who like fire engines because you like them to be red? What's wrong with you?" (They reason to try to make Tommy feel guilty and feel that it is wrong to be different)).

A free society has few rules, but those few rules must be obeyed or there will be some sort of physical punishment. In school it would be a smack or in extreme cases a slipper or cane if rules had been broken. While a warning would be given if a child broke the rules, to give the child a chance to repent, if they did not repent they would face punishment.

However in communistic society has many rules and can sometimes even do away with physical punishment except in the extreme cases, as it relies on reasoning to brainwash children and later adults to comply. Teachers are taught to use the reasoning methods and how to make those who think differently to make them think there is something wrong with them. The emphasis is to make anyone who thinks outside of the box feel guilty for doing so, and I really believe that this is why so many with autism are being discovered where in the past they slipped through the net. In the past one was encouraged to be different and given good exam marks if one could expand upon the subject in a different way. Communism however, would act the other way in an exam and deduct points for free thinking which is what is happening in the UK today with the communistic based GCSE exams where children (And teachers) have to comply within a strict cericculum.
The old "0" level exams we had in Britain encouraged one to expand and one was marked on ones abilities to expand beyond what one was taught.
I happened to be taught in the transition stage where we were taught in 0 level thinking, but then sat GCSE exams (Which very few students got anything higher then a C grade in, as they set the standards too high. In my whole county that year there were 18 A grades, and my school was the best performer having three pupils that achieved an A grade in the same school that year. Today most children get A grades as they have lowered the standards. Why lower the standards so far? Because under communism, it is based on the "Feel good factor" where one is trained for a reward. The old system few had a reward as it was about education. Not about brainwashing).

Reward based teaching.... Think of training a dog. Each time the dog does what it is told it gets a biscuit. Its owner has lots of biscuits handy. If the dog has no biscuit, the dog can't be bothered to comply. It is not personal as the dog learns it wants another biscuit. The dog loves biscuits. Its owner is the biscuit provider.

The opposite of rhis is training a dog and giving it praize for complying but not giving a reward. The dog remembers its owner is happy and so just goes on complying because it wants to please its owner and has learned what its owner likes. This is personal. There is no biscuit. It just wants to please its owner and does not want its owner upset, because the dog loves its owner.

I hope this helps to understand the differences, as I know many of you will not understand even though you think you do.

My advice is to avoid watching the news for a while, and then when you watch it, ask yourself "What is the agenda behind what they are saying?"
Classic brainwashing is done by continual repeating a particular subject. News need only be done once or twice. When a certain subject is repeatedly brought up again and again and again long after it has been real news, that's brainwashing in action. That is a sure sign that there is more then just the subject being discussed involved.


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20 Jun 2021, 7:39 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
"I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

Seems like they're already quite capable of using "they" to refer to other people...

But hey, somebody printed it, so it HAS to be true!


Look at the senario... You may address someone as he or she quite innocently and thought a lot of that person. If they decide to verbally attack you over it, who is the victim. You or the other person? You of course, as the one attacking you can try to do all they like using fancy words like "Discrimination" when all along the real victim of the attack was you as they did not have to react like that.

My Mum had taught me well to see things as they are. I guess she has had to cope with me and my brothers so she has had good training!

Always look at the heart to determine the intent.

Anyone who shows kindness but is attacked by another is a victim, not the other way around as rhe one showing kindness has innocence on their side.

So how should one react if one has been addressed in an incorrect way? Use respect and love in return. That way one will change a nation!


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20 Jun 2021, 8:07 am

Mikah wrote:
North Korean defector survives epic escape from North Korea as teenager, attends Ivy League university and ... looks favourably on North Korean propaganda by comparison. It sounds like an article from The Onion, but it isn't.

Ayn Rand grew up in the Soviet Union, and she created Objectivism because she believed that, as the Soviet Union was the worst possible place on Earth in which to live, therefore a place that was the polar opposite of the Soviet Union must be a paradise. People from cultures with extreme views are likely to hold extreme views of their own, in reaction to what they were exposed to when young. Please keep that in mind when reading what this lady has to say.


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Mikah
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20 Jun 2021, 12:58 pm

MaxE wrote:
Mikah wrote:
North Korean defector survives epic escape from North Korea as teenager, attends Ivy League university and ... looks favourably on North Korean propaganda by comparison. It sounds like an article from The Onion, but it isn't.

Ayn Rand grew up in the Soviet Union, and she created Objectivism because she believed that, as the Soviet Union was the worst possible place on Earth in which to live, therefore a place that was the polar opposite of the Soviet Union must be a paradise. People from cultures with extreme views are likely to hold extreme views of their own, in reaction to what they were exposed to when young. Please keep that in mind when reading what this lady has to say.


This is worth keeping in mind, yes. I shared it mainly to amuse others as it amused me. While there is definitely truth in her complaints, I think she may be overstating the comparison between Western Leftism and North Korea a bit, probably for the benefit of Fox News (and to plug her book).

These are the source interviews apparently:



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funeralxempire
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20 Jun 2021, 1:16 pm

Mikah wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Mikah wrote:
North Korean defector survives epic escape from North Korea as teenager, attends Ivy League university and ... looks favourably on North Korean propaganda by comparison. It sounds like an article from The Onion, but it isn't.

Ayn Rand grew up in the Soviet Union, and she created Objectivism because she believed that, as the Soviet Union was the worst possible place on Earth in which to live, therefore a place that was the polar opposite of the Soviet Union must be a paradise. People from cultures with extreme views are likely to hold extreme views of their own, in reaction to what they were exposed to when young. Please keep that in mind when reading what this lady has to say.


This is worth keeping in mind, yes. I shared it mainly to amuse others as it amused me. While there is definitely truth in her complaints, I think she may be overstating the comparison between Western Leftism and North Korea a bit, probably for the benefit of Fox News (and to plug her book).

These are the source interviews apparently:




She's saying something that sounds outlandish because it'll resonate with the audience, but there's probably a kernal of truth to it. Colleges and universities are big on performative activism so being really strict about enforcing things like not allowing misgendering is good for providing spectacle that can then be used as proof that they're especially woke and with it even if the end-result is kinda like your grandma dressing like she was in grade 7 - it doesn't accomplish what was intended and usually ends up not looking so great in hindsight.

Mind you if this was an issue that was relevant to her and her identity she wouldn't freak out about it, she might even be grateful that they're attempting to make a difference (or anxious that it stirs resentment, or both).


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20 Jun 2021, 2:23 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
"I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

I sometimes still say 'he' or 'she' by mistake and now they are going to ask me to call them 'they'? How the heck do I incorporate that into my sentences?"

Seems like they're already quite capable of using "they" to refer to other people...

But hey, somebody printed it, so it HAS to be true!

I trip over ‘they’ etc for a singular person sometimes. I try to use the persons literal name. And no way I am going to remember 72 or whatever it is gender identifiers. ‘Non binary’ should cover most of this, I hope.


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uncommondenominator
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20 Jun 2021, 3:27 pm

Lotta wild assumption flying around in here...

That's 72 VIRGINS, not 72 VERSIONS. An easy mistake.

Always a funny argument it is, "I can't remember all FIFTY THOUSAND different new genders!". Cos using a bigger number makes it sound more daunting and "unreasonable". Last I checked, there were more johnny depp characters than genders, and people seem to have NO problem remembering the right name to use based on how they're dressed. "Sweeny Todd! Willy Wonka! Edward Scissorhands! Jack Sparrow! Mad Hatter!" And people generally remember the individual and often unique names of all the people they meet, and care to remember.

A north korean escapes a land known for enforcing the One Acceptable Truth. Part of the "truth" is that america is nutty. She then claims that she thinks america is nutty. SHOCKER! And, who has she been under the care of? Who has "taught" her about america? If she was "taught" about america by the people who already believe negative things about "ToO mAnY gEnDeRs!! !" then that's probably what she's gonna get from it, even in america. SHOCKER!

Hearing people describe what they think happens at colleges is an endless source of entertainment.

If someone gets mad at you for accidentally misgendering them, odds are they have a painful past related to it, and it really has nothing to do with you, but rather their own internal problems. But by all means, take it personally and make it all about YOU, so that YOU can play victim, too. People lash out like that all the time over all kinds of things. It may not be right, or fair, or pleasant - but choosing to counter attack rather than just brushing the dirt off your shoulder is merely a self-satisfying act of revenge that makes you "feel good" in response to having been made to "feel bad".

Someone with good intentions who causes harm is still causing harm. Someone who means well but still hurts you is still hurting you. If bright lights cause you to overstimulate and have a meltdown, and I don't know that, so I turn up the lights to be helpful, do my "good intentions" suddenly make you no longer light sensitive? Do my "good intentions" prevent a meltdown if it happens? While it's true I "didn't know", and had "good intentions", I can still choose to remain ignorant and not change, and keep turning up lights under the pretense that "I didn't know! I was trying to help!" - or I can choose to exert a TINY SHRED OF EFFORT, and ASK "hey, do you want more light?" before doing anything.

Faux News is pushing it, so it MUST be true!



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21 Jun 2021, 1:13 pm

Conservatives so desperate to feel oppressed that they try to equate what conservatives experience on certain campuses with what actual dissidents experience in the DPRK.
Facing social consequences for running one's mouth only seems comparable to being starved in a re-education camp when one is not used to facing any consequences for one's actions.
They long for the good old days when thinking queers and Muslims deserve fewer rights was a respectable position that deserved polite, civil debate and not immediate social consequences.

If anything, you're more likely to be imprisoned if you're liberal, since the GoP loves to disenfranchise voters through a combination of mass incarceration and felon disenfranchisement laws.
They also don't consider what happens to 'dissidents' in conservative areas. Queers like me are not about to sympathize with conservatives who whine about facing social consequences for their actions, when being queer or feminist or socialist or brown in a conservative town is a damn good recipe for getting bullied--or worse.

Also:
Learning pronouns is a requisite part of learning virtually any language. I did not agonize over massive Russian and (less massive) Arabic and German pronoun tables so I could hear ppl act like it's a horrible, unreasonable expectation to learn all 3 gender-unspecified 3rd person pronouns. They/them/their. Look! You're already done! Congratulations!


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21 Jun 2021, 4:14 pm

Too much fuss is being made over the opinions of one North Korean defector.

:roll:


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21 Jun 2021, 4:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
Too much fuss is being made over the opinions of one North Korean defector.

:roll:


Maybe they're not used to people outside of the movement agreeing so they're just really excited to finally have a real world person they didn't pay agree with them? :chin:


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