Another riot planned at the Capitol for September 18th

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cyberdad
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21 Sep 2021, 2:08 am

Dox47 wrote:
It's a meme, it's not intended to be a complex argument, but rather to make a point about how people come off and react; admit it, you recognize the guy on the left, he posts on this board quite frequently, under many different names, and the f


To the eye of a beholder,



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21 Sep 2021, 2:32 am

cyberdad wrote:
On the contrary, the far right a broad church
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... les/groups
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

A lot of them don't carry labels or identifiers.


Okay, I'm seriously asking now: Do you ever start to write a comment and think "gee, you know what, I actually don't know much about this country, it's culture, or the particular subculture I'm about to comment on, maybe I ought to admit that the guy who lives there and is involved in that subculture has a better grasp of it than I do"? Notice that I don't attempt to make authoritative statements on Australian, UK, Canadian, etc culture and politics because no matter how much I read online, I don't live there and therefore don't know what I'm talking about, and when I do comment, I defer to those with first hand experience. If I want the American right wing opinion on something, I can ask a right winger, either online through the many forums I'm active on, or in person, such as at the gun club; you're relying on second hand information that you're getting completely from liberal sources, and it shows. If I wanted the distorted clown world take on the American right, I can always just turn on CNN.


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21 Sep 2021, 2:40 am

haha tldr, mean this one?



Dox47
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21 Sep 2021, 2:47 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
I think I've mentioned, I don't care for memes and I never use them. They are always emotional hit pieces and do twist the discourse in what I find is an unproductive way. Even when I agree with them they trigger a sharp reaction.


I suspect you're just out of the demographic that likes memes, though my mom is older than you and thinks some of them are pretty funny, but it took me a good afternoon to explain all the wojacks and such (time well spent btw). I was a bit of a late comer to them myself, but once I recognized how efficiently they could get a point across, I came to see the value and appreciate a well crafted one, though I'm always afraid of turning into my late father, forwarding lame jokes via email in his later years. Once you get a feel for them, they're surprisingly natural, I can whip up a bespoke meme faster than I can type the required paragraphs out to get the same message across, and the meme is sadly often funnier than anything I could have said. I suspect they also cross the language barrier better than pure text, as you don't need a super nuanced understanding of English to understand two buttons guy means a dilemma for someone, or that the guilty monkey means someone hoping no one notices their own bad behavior.

DW_a_mom wrote:
I hope you noticed that I limited my comments to a few select issues, the ones that most clearly involve all of us. The where your rights run into mine thing.


Yeah, I'm sort of worn out on that debate, I'm the guy who fully walks the "let 1000 murderers go free rather an convict an innocent man" trope, and my feelings on covid are pretty similar, I don't care how many people die, you're never going to convince me that the government can compel someone to stick a needle in their arm (I'm vaxxed on my own accord, in case you were wondering). I hope Biden's mandate gets struck down, and I really hope enough people say "nope, you're going to have to fire me", so everyone can see where the power really lies in this country.


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DW_a_mom
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21 Sep 2021, 3:04 am

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think I've mentioned, I don't care for memes and I never use them. They are always emotional hit pieces and do twist the discourse in what I find is an unproductive way. Even when I agree with them they trigger a sharp reaction.


I suspect you're just out of the demographic that likes memes, though my mom is older than you and thinks some of them are pretty funny, but it took me a good afternoon to explain all the wojacks and such (time well spent btw). I was a bit of a late comer to them myself, but once I recognized how efficiently they could get a point across, I came to see the value and appreciate a well crafted one, though I'm always afraid of turning into my late father, forwarding lame jokes via email in his later years. Once you get a feel for them, they're surprisingly natural, I can whip up a bespoke meme faster than I can type the required paragraphs out to get the same message across, and the meme is sadly often funnier than anything I could have said. I suspect they also cross the language barrier better than pure text, as you don't need a super nuanced understanding of English to understand two buttons guy means a dilemma for someone, or that the guilty monkey means someone hoping no one notices their own bad behavior.


My issue is that I've noticed how they dig into many people's impressions of an issue, making the short cut become that person's whole understanding. Most people aren't just laughing, they are identifying. That is what I find dangerous. In a low information, headline-oriented world, the pointed meme messages tend to stick. It's a bit subversive in that way.

They are often funny, I can laugh at them. But I have a lot of "average" people in my on-line world, and how quickly views permanently distort has been really eye-opening for me. It stops being funny to me when it actually starts being a baseline for someone's understanding of the world.

In real life it's easier to separate the joking intent, and people don't latch as much. But on-line, too many really do seem to.


dox47 wrote:
]
DW_a_mom wrote:
I hope you noticed that I limited my comments to a few select issues, the ones that most clearly involve all of us. The where your rights run into mine thing.


Yeah, I'm sort of worn out on that debate, I'm the guy who fully walks the "let 1000 murderers go free rather an convict an innocent man" trope, and my feelings on covid are pretty similar, I don't care how many people die, you're never going to convince me that the government can compel someone to stick a needle in their arm (I'm vaxxed on my own accord, in case you were wondering). I hope Biden's mandate gets struck down, and I really hope enough people say "nope, you're going to have to fire me", so everyone can see where the power really lies in this country.


You may remember I'm not into the mandatory thing, either.

But any unvaccinated medical or emergency personnel who come near my mom better damn well be masking up.

I figured you were too smart not to get vaccinated, by the way.


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cyberdad
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21 Sep 2021, 3:26 am

Dox47 wrote:
If I want the American right wing opinion on something, I can ask a right winger, either online through the many forums I'm active on, or in person, such as at the gun club; you're relying on second hand information that you're getting completely from liberal sources, and it shows. If I wanted the distorted clown world take on the American right, I can always just turn on CNN.


I read a response you did to another poster claiming the meme was aimed at caricaturing the far right so I was saying the far right in America are more diverse and more present at pro-Trump marches than you are willing to admit,

But now you are asking me to to get first hand experiences from right wingers? so which is it? right wingers must include literally millions of Americans. I've been lectured over the years on WP how diverse the right wing in America is and not to pigeonhole them so now I'm wondering why you are changing the goal posts?

I'm pretty sure (without living in the US although have visited 3 times) the "leave me alone" caricature of a far right/right person is going to be unrepresentative. The intent behind the meme is clear as night and day
antifa - bad aggressive dangerous
far right - tired, over it, wants to be left alone, wants live in peace, safe

We are not all fools



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21 Sep 2021, 3:28 am

Dox47 wrote:
Notice that I don't attempt to make authoritative statements on Australian, UK, Canadian, etc culture and politics because no matter how much I read online, I don't live there and therefore don't know what I'm talking about, and when I do comment, .


When the US sneezes we in Australia (and probably Canada) catch a cold, You'll forgive the Australians and Canadians having an interest in the country that has an overarching influence on our trade, defence and lives,



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21 Sep 2021, 5:34 am

cyberdad wrote:
I read a response you did to another poster claiming the meme was aimed at caricaturing the far right so I was saying the far right in America are more diverse and more present at pro-Trump marches than you are willing to admit,


Yes, they are very diverse, but you keep cherry picking the worst examples, the handful of people who show up with Nazi flags or flying the stars and bars, and try to put them forward as representative. Your median Trump voter is pretty unremarkable, they're generally bog standard Republicans, with a heavier share of the working class than the GOP has drawn in the past, which includes greater minority support since the party has enjoyed since the Nixon era. I've never claimed that there are not racist elements, as there most certainly are, what I've pushed back on is the idea that you and a number of other posters keep putting forward that they are representative of the majority, when I doubt those people would fill a moderate sized stadium if you pulled in every single one in the country.

cyberdad wrote:
But now you are asking me to to get first hand experiences from right wingers? so which is it? right wingers must include literally millions of Americans. I've been lectured over the years on WP how diverse the right wing in America is and not to pigeonhole them so now I'm wondering why you are changing the goal posts?


I'm not changing the goalposts at all, I've been asking you where you get off presenting yourself as some kind of expert on the American Right for some time given that you don't live here and have no direct contact with them, to which you duck the question or answer a different question and act like you answered mine. I literally rub shoulders with these guys, why should anyone believe you over me when it comes to questions of what these guys are actually like, or what their organizations and goals really look like?

cyberdad wrote:
I'm pretty sure (without living in the US although have visited 3 times) the "leave me alone" caricature of a far right/right person is going to be unrepresentative.


Ooh, 3 times huh, that sure beats my 39 years here, many of them spent in the company of the very people you're claiming to understand better than me. The overwhelming majority of them really do just want to be left alone, occasional loonies excepted, which is harder and harder with out government snaking it's tentacles into more an more of our lives, including how we raise our children, which is a real sore spot with this group.

cyberdad wrote:
The intent behind the meme is clear as night and day


To poke fun at the worst overheated mask and vax advocates and their ineffective scream and shame technique? Guilty.

cyberdad wrote:
antifa - bad aggressive dangerous


I didn't see any antifa, nor the suggestion that anyone was dangerous, just annoying, best not to project like that.

cyberdad wrote:
far right - tired, over it, wants to be left alone, wants live in peace, safe


Which again, is completely accurate for the vast majority of the far right, as I'm in a far better position to comment on than you are, from the other side of the world with no direct contact with any of these people who I have direct and personal access to.

cyberdad wrote:
We are not all fools


Could've fooled me.


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21 Sep 2021, 6:31 am

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
On the contrary, the far right a broad church
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... les/groups
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

A lot of them don't carry labels or identifiers.


Okay, I'm seriously asking now: Do you ever start to write a comment and think "gee, you know what, I actually don't know much about this country, it's culture, or the particular subculture I'm about to comment on, maybe I ought to admit that the guy who lives there and is involved in that subculture has a better grasp of it than I do"? Notice that I don't attempt to make authoritative statements on Australian, UK, Canadian, etc culture and politics because no matter how much I read online, I don't live there and therefore don't know what I'm talking about, and when I do comment, I defer to those with first hand experience. If I want the American right wing opinion on something, I can ask a right winger, either online through the many forums I'm active on, or in person, such as at the gun club; you're relying on second hand information that you're getting completely from liberal sources, and it shows. If I wanted the distorted clown world take on the American right, I can always just turn on CNN.


Is this the attitude you have with Brictoria and me, also?


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And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
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cyberdad
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21 Sep 2021, 7:05 am

Dox47 wrote:
[ Your median Trump voter is pretty unremarkable, they're generally bog standard Republicans, with a heavier share of the working class than the GOP has drawn in the past, which includes greater minority support since the party has enjoyed since the Nixon era. I've never claimed that there are not racist elements, as there most certainly are, what I've pushed back on is the idea that you and a number of other posters keep putting forward that they are representative of the majority, when I doubt those people would fill a moderate sized stadium if you pulled in every single one in the country..


Ok that only took 3000 posts but that's all I wanted to her (the highlighted bit).

My problem with the right all over the western world is there apparent willingness to accommodate these elements under the guise of free speech.



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21 Sep 2021, 4:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
My problem with the right all over the western world is there apparent willingness to accommodate these elements under the guise of free speech.


It's not a guise, free speech means free speech, for everyone.


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21 Sep 2021, 4:04 pm

Pepe wrote:
Is this the attitude you have with Brictoria and me, also?


Neither of you try and lecture me about what things are like on the ground in my own country, so you're safe. :D


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21 Sep 2021, 5:37 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Is this the attitude you have with Brictoria and me, also?


Neither of you try and lecture me about what things are like on the ground in my own country, so you're safe. :D


Phew! 8O


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


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21 Sep 2021, 5:41 pm

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
My problem with the right all over the western world is there apparent willingness to accommodate these elements under the guise of free speech.


It's not a guise, free speech means free speech, for everyone.


No, only for the progressive side of politics.
Haven't you been paying attention? <satire> 8)

Image


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


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21 Sep 2021, 5:51 pm

Can tell you how things are on the ground where dox lives ! .( Its Soggy ) . ? unless he is in eastern part of the State. :D


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21 Sep 2021, 6:10 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Is this the attitude you have with Brictoria and me, also?


Neither of you try and lecture me about what things are like on the ground in my own country, so you're safe. :D


Many of the issues that arise in the US resonate with Canadians and Australians although the nuance is different based on the unique history, composition of the population and laws that exist in the US.