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Axeman
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25 Sep 2021, 4:17 pm

Misslizard wrote:
/\Three squares a day, a hot shower, cot, and a toilet.
And medicine for diarrhea.


Nail. Head. Hit.



Axeman
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25 Sep 2021, 6:10 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
I hate to suggest the answer to anything is spending money or restricting freedom, but ... society should invest in mental health facilities to accommodate the violent mentally ill instead of allowing them to continue living on the streets. We've made a choice to allow these things because it is cheaper than solving the problem, but that equation forgets about all adjacent costs that follow, like the costs to a victim's mental health, or the cash cost to a restaurant that has to replace stolen tips.


There is no way for many of these people to rejoin society. Many aren't employable and never can be. What would you suggest be done with them?



DW_a_mom
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25 Sep 2021, 6:55 pm

Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I hate to suggest the answer to anything is spending money or restricting freedom, but ... society should invest in mental health facilities to accommodate the violent mentally ill instead of allowing them to continue living on the streets. We've made a choice to allow these things because it is cheaper than solving the problem, but that equation forgets about all adjacent costs that follow, like the costs to a victim's mental health, or the cash cost to a restaurant that has to replace stolen tips.


There is no way for many of these people to rejoin society. Many aren't employable and never can be. What would you suggest be done with them?


I said mental health institutions. I was just reluctant about it for broader implication reasons, a checkered history with involuntary commitments, and so on. It's a path fraught with peril but I don't see a better option.


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25 Sep 2021, 11:26 pm

A big problem we have in Seattle is that a lot of these people are essentially feral, they wouldn't go to a shelter even if one were available, so something like involuntary commitment is the only option, and that's time consuming and expensive, aside from the legal issues. Just to give you an idea of the scale of the problem, we had a guy running around in my old neighborhood in South West Seattle who had a real thing for breaking windows, he broke multiple shop windows on the commercial strip where my restaurant was located, and even spent hours one day doing tens of thousands of dollars in damage to a new school building under construction, but they never even charged him despite knowing full well who he was, they'd just pick him up, process him and release him a few hours or days later. He must have eventually moved on, or been "encouraged" to do so because it stopped suddenly and I stopped seeing him on the strip, but as far as I know local law enforcement didn't have anything to do with it. Now there is a new woman walking around late at night with a hammer smashing windows in the same area, she's been caught on camera numerous times and identified, but same story, nothing can be done. I retain membership in the private FB group for area merchants, so I still see what's going on there, so glad I sold my business and moved.


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Axeman
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26 Sep 2021, 1:46 am

Dox47 wrote:
A big problem we have in Seattle is that a lot of these people are essentially feral, they wouldn't go to a shelter even if one were available, so something like involuntary commitment is the only option, and that's time consuming and expensive, aside from the legal issues. Just to give you an idea of the scale of the problem, we had a guy running around in my old neighborhood in South West Seattle who had a real thing for breaking windows, he broke multiple shop windows on the commercial strip where my restaurant was located, and even spent hours one day doing tens of thousands of dollars in damage to a new school building under construction, but they never even charged him despite knowing full well who he was, they'd just pick him up, process him and release him a few hours or days later. He must have eventually moved on, or been "encouraged" to do so because it stopped suddenly and I stopped seeing him on the strip, but as far as I know local law enforcement didn't have anything to do with it. Now there is a new woman walking around late at night with a hammer smashing windows in the same area, she's been caught on camera numerous times and identified, but same story, nothing can be done. I retain membership in the private FB group for area merchants, so I still see what's going on there, so glad I sold my business and moved.


My god sounds like involuntary commitment looney bins style might be necessary for the safety of everyone else. I'm wondering how this even happens to people. At one point they were all babies someone cared for, had childhoods, etc.



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26 Sep 2021, 12:08 pm

My daughters friend’s on the west coast have trouble with homeless getting on front porches at night to sleep.
It’s sad they are just looking for shelter but it would be disturbing to open the front door and find them sitting or passed out in your porch chairs.And they were peeing in the flower pots.And worse.
Many don’t want to go to shelters because you can’t smoke, drink or do drugs.So they prefer to sleep rough.
Once my daughter tried to give a homeless panhandler a sandwich and he threw it back at her.
Some people you can’t help and some just don’t want it.
I feel sorry for the homeless who are just down on their luck, but some are dangerous and crazy.


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26 Sep 2021, 12:56 pm

Misslizard wrote:
My daughters friend’s on the west coast have trouble with homeless getting on front porches at night to sleep.
It’s sad they are just looking for shelter but it would be disturbing to open the front door and find them sitting or passed out in your porch chairs.And they were peeing in the flower pots.And worse.
Many don’t want to go to shelters because you can’t smoke, drink or do drugs.So they prefer to sleep rough.
Once my daughter tried to give a homeless panhandler a sandwich and he threw it back at her.
Some people you can’t help and some just don’t want it.
I feel sorry for the homeless who are just down on their luck, but some are dangerous and crazy.


Anyone sleeping on my porch would be woken by the stock of my shotgun making contact with the side of their head.



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26 Sep 2021, 1:40 pm

I wouldn’t do that.First I’d spray them with the water hose then release the hounds.
I’d let my Catahoula Cur have the pleasure of running them off.


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Axeman
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26 Sep 2021, 5:22 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I wouldn’t do that.First I’d spray them with the water hose then release the hounds.
I’d let my Catahoula Cur have the pleasure of running them off.


I really mean that. There are places in cities where meth addicts will knock on doors at all hours demanding money to make them go away. They break into homes to steal things they can sell for more drugs.



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26 Sep 2021, 7:48 pm

Axeman wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I wouldn’t do that.First I’d spray them with the water hose then release the hounds.
I’d let my Catahoula Cur have the pleasure of running them off.


I really mean that. There are places in cities where meth addicts will knock on doors at all hours demanding money to make them go away. They break into homes to steal things they can sell for more drugs.

We also have a meth problem here along with other wildlife.
My cur bit a huge black bear on its a$$ and ran it up a tree.
If the dogs (5 large ones)don’t do the trick ,then I’ll get my gun.
See with the dogs, they never make it to the porch in the first place.


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26 Sep 2021, 10:18 pm

A lot of areas are now experimenting with "housing first" models, where they house the homeless without imposing any rules. It gets people off the streets and once they no longer have to fight for their daily basic needs, they often become more accepting of help and change.

My town does have a substantial homeless population but is still relatively small, so a lot of ideas are getting tested here. I don't think there will be a one size fits all solution, but hopefully a combination can work.


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Mona Pereth
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26 Sep 2021, 10:41 pm

Dox47 wrote:
A few years ago when I had my restaurant open, I had a homeless guy steal the tip jar off the counter,

...

didn't even bother with the police.

You didn't have a surveillance camera at the checkout counter?

(Here in NYC, pretty near every storefront business has a video camera or two, and larger stores have multiple cameras. It's been that way for many decades.)

Dox47 wrote:
So I stopped and went back to the restaurant and paid my employee's tips out of my own pocket that day and got a metal tip box that bolted to the counter


Good idea.


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Mona Pereth
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26 Sep 2021, 10:42 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
A lot of areas are now experimenting with "housing first" models, where they house the homeless without imposing any rules. It gets people off the streets and once they no longer have to fight for their daily basic needs, they often become more accepting of help and change.

That's great to hear.


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Mona Pereth
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26 Sep 2021, 10:48 pm

Dropping poop on someone's head is a senseless crime.

However, a rise in theft is only to be expected when a lot of people are suddenly poor or homeless and have no idea how else to survive.

This is one of the reasons why the U.S.A. needs a better social safety net generally, and why local "housing first" policies sound to me like a good idea.


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26 Sep 2021, 11:02 pm

They have nice tiny houses for the homeless in Springfield,MO.They have a no tolerance for drug/alcohol/cigarettes use and you either go to rehab or live elsewhere.

https://edenvillageusa.org/springfield-mo/

It truly helps those that just need help getting back on their feet.
It’s what to do with potentially violent or severely mentally ill homeless.


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Mona Pereth
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26 Sep 2021, 11:27 pm

Misslizard wrote:
They have nice tiny houses for the homeless in Springfield,MO.They have a no tolerance for drug/alcohol/cigarettes use and you either go to rehab or live elsewhere.

https://edenvillageusa.org/springfield-mo/

It truly helps those that just need help getting back on their feet.
It’s what to do with potentially violent or severely mentally ill homeless.

Are these tiny houses located near any decent public transportation?


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