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Deepthought 7
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25 Jan 2022, 12:57 am

League_Girl wrote:
Teacher fired for blogging about students:

https://www.mcall.com/news/pennsylvania ... story.html

The above link was not available for people like myself in the UK ~ so I found this one that was / is:

Pennsylvania teacher fired after blog posts cannot sue: U.S. court
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-teacher-freespeech-idUSKCN0R41N220150904

And the legal case report:

MUNROE v. CENTRAL BUCKS SCHOOL DISTRICT
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-3rd-circuit/1712611.html


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25 Jan 2022, 3:43 am

Thank you.

People have also gotten fired for bad talking about white cis straight people after all. Like that Oregon woman who was fired for posting online about when a family came in and applied for foodstamps but their car was too nice looking he was driving.


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25 Jan 2022, 4:00 am

League_Girl wrote:
It's called being an ally. Minorities need support from us. The issue is so many people ignore it because it doesn't affect them so it's not their problem. This is what makes us an accomplice. Imagine how it felt to be picked on at school and only you had to fend for yourself. No one ever stood up for you. So you feel no one cared about you.

This is why we need allys. Bully victims need others to stand up against their Bully. Minorities need white people to stand up to bigots for them, they are practicing their free speech by standing up to him. He couldn't handle it.


Except that he (the professor) is the minority in the situation, and those who perceive themselves as the minority, are in fact the majority - and also function as the bullies.


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25 Jan 2022, 5:01 am

The definition of the word 'hypocrisy': the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Was the professor hypocritical ? I don't know, but it doesn't seem like he was.


Definition of 'herd mentality: the tendency of the people in a group to think and behave in ways that conform with others in the group rather than as individuals

Do neurodivergents, and in particular autistic individuals have a hive mind ? Doesn't seem to, but defending the hive mind of neurotypicals when agreeing with their behavior seems a bit hypocritical to me.


Definition of 'neurodiversity': individual differences in brain functioning regarded as normal variations within the human population

Was the professor neurodivergent ? I don't know.


Definition of 'neurotypical': not displaying or characterized by autistic or other neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior.

Why would a neurotypical professor paint himself in a corner of the room, being a paria within his pairs, if he was just plain neurotypical ?


My understanding is that he killed himself because he hated himself. He hated himself because most people he interacted with in his professional life hated him. And they hated him because they weren't applying the golden rule.

The golden rule never was about karma. It is instead a tool to teach oneself to love and be understanding of one's ennemies. By teaching yourself to be understanding, you become a better person.

Was the professor a role model ? No, and he wasn't the only one.


Dox47 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why anyone would side with bullies is something I could never fully comprehend.


Who is the bully in this situation? The professor made noxious remarks online, and was then subjected to a years long campaign to smear him and deprive him of his job, it's quite well documented in the articles I linked to and quoted earlier, he won a protracted legal case over it. Now that he's dead, online strangers are dancing on his grave because he said mean things on the internet; who are the good guys here?


The good guys are individuals who supported him.

The definitions came from Google.



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25 Jan 2022, 7:11 am

This whole thing reminds me of a frequently made observation of progressives; that if you ask them if they think a young man from a troubled background who killed someone in a robbery should be given a second chance, they'll often say yes, of course, but if you ask the same people what should be done about someone who had racist tweets from their teenage years uncovered, the answer is often to essentially banish them from polite society, no forgiveness at all.


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25 Jan 2022, 7:39 am

I don’t believe the sins of the distant past should affect a person’s present….especially if the person grew up from that “past.” And they’ve done nothing since.

It’s ridiculous for someone to have to resign because the person grabbed somebody’s butt as a 17 year old high schooler 30 years ago.



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25 Jan 2022, 8:40 am

League_Girl wrote:
It's called being an ally. Minorities need support from us. The issue is so many people ignore it because it doesn't affect them so it's not their problem. This is what makes us an accomplice. Imagine how it felt to be picked on at school and only you had to fend for yourself. No one ever stood up for you. So you feel no one cared about you.

This is why we need allys. Bully victims need others to stand up against their Bully. Minorities need white people to stand up to bigots for them, they are practicing their free speech by standing up to him. He couldn't handle it.


Unfortunately there is an issue at my department related to what you mentioned. There is a sensitivity class that professors can take so that you earn the right to put a rainbow sticker on your office door stating that you are an ally to students of all types. Sounds good right?

It is a scam at best. The catch is that everyone who has one of those on their doors are the first to make fun of them behind their backs. I do not have it on my door because my students know who I am, someone who cares about all of them. My reputation stands as is. I should not need a door sticker to make them feel comfortable discussing things with me in my office. The sticker gives them false hope in the other faculty members who have it posted.

As for not having allies while being bullied, I have been there before. It is one reason why my family moved away from a town to start over. I would not be alive otherwise.



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25 Jan 2022, 9:06 am

League_Girl wrote:
. . . Minorities need support from us. . .
I am sorry, LG, but I cannot accept the belief that minorities need support, because the belief implies that minorities are somehow afflicted with the inability to support themselves.  Are they not smart enough?  Are they not strong enough?  Are they somehow "inferior" in a way that makes it impossible for them to achieve anything without help from the "Great White Saviors"?

No, No, and definitely NO!

The only support "they" need from "us" is the removal of racist laws and the politicians who enact them.  Remove the institutional barriers, stand back, and watch them thrive.



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25 Jan 2022, 9:20 am

In order for "minorities" to truly succeed, they must be perceived as being able to "stand on their own two feet."

Otherwise, they are perceived (wrongly) as inferior because they require "assistance" which is not given to the "majority."

At one time, racist belief was so ingrained that "minorities" needed a "boost." Nowadays, it is hoped that they, as individuals, can provide their own "boost."

Harping on past (and present) institutional injustice doesn't do much good, these days. Emphasizing it in dialogue is useful---but inferring that racism is inevitable because of the past is not. Inferring that a certain group of persons are automatically "racist" by virtue of their birth is especially useless.

In the days of the Civil Rights Era, emphasis on injustice was required in order to reach the "next steps." Malcolm X chose the more "separatist" approach---and he did not succeed. Martin Luther King chose the more "assimilated" approach---and that worked very well.



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25 Jan 2022, 11:24 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
It's called being an ally. Minorities need support from us. The issue is so many people ignore it because it doesn't affect them so it's not their problem. This is what makes us an accomplice. Imagine how it felt to be picked on at school and only you had to fend for yourself. No one ever stood up for you. So you feel no one cared about you.

This is why we need allys. Bully victims need others to stand up against their Bully. Minorities need white people to stand up to bigots for them, they are practicing their free speech by standing up to him. He couldn't handle it.


Except that he (the professor) is the minority in the situation, and those who perceive themselves as the minority, are in fact the majority - and also function as the bullies.


So if a bunch of students stood up for you to your bully, they all would be the bullies and your bully would be the minority?

Do you realize how bad this is sounding, you are being a bully apologist here.


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25 Jan 2022, 11:27 am

Dox47 wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of a frequently made observation of progressives; that if you ask them if they think a young man from a troubled background who killed someone in a robbery should be given a second chance, they'll often say yes, of course, but if you ask the same people what should be done about someone who had racist tweets from their teenage years uncovered, the answer is often to essentially banish them from polite society, no forgiveness at all.



Except the professor hadn't changed. If he had in fact used to be racist, used to be a misogynist, used to think trans people were mentally ill and then he was educated and no longer that anymore, then I can be forgiving of him.


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25 Jan 2022, 11:29 am

Fnord wrote:

The only support "they" need from "us" is the removal of racist laws and the politicians who enact them.  Remove the institutional barriers, stand back, and watch them thrive.[/color]



That is what being an ally is and thinking the professor got the consequences for his behavior is also being an ally as well by being supportive of people who stood up to him. It's interesting that the right wing propaganda tries and twist this to saying that the minorities are weak and not smart enough and inferior.


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25 Jan 2022, 11:33 am

QuantumChemist wrote:

As for not having allies while being bullied, I have been there before. It is one reason why my family moved away from a town to start over. I would not be alive otherwise.



My parents had to be my ally and my therapist but the word is advocate in this scenario and I find it offensive when people twist it into that minorities are weak and not strong and not smart and are inferior. Was I not strong? Was I weak? Was I inferior because I would not have done this on my own if it were not for my parents and my therapist? And my parents were treated as if they were bullies as well by my school. This is what happens when you stand up for your child or for people of color or LGBT.


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25 Jan 2022, 11:42 am

I was bullied. I was seen as being the provocateur of the bullying, because of my "weirdness." The school didn't do a damn thing about my bullies.

I don't feel they turned it around, and said I was the "bully." That would have been ridiculous.

I feel like the school just didn't want to get involved----and that "boys will be boys."

I feel like a certain apathy, borne out of a desire to maintain a "reputation," and to not make an effort in general, is behind schools ignoring bullying behavior.



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25 Jan 2022, 11:49 am

League_Girl wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The only support "they" need from "us" is the removal of racist laws and the politicians who enact them.  Remove the institutional barriers, stand back, and watch them thrive.
That is what being an ally is and thinking the professor got the consequences for his behavior is also being an ally as well by being supportive of people who stood up to him.  It's interesting that the right wing propaganda tries and twist this to saying that the minorities are weak and not smart enough and inferior.
It is not just the Right that says this (as an excuse for denying minorities equal rights); it is also the Left that says this (as an excuse for Affirmative Action and other programs benefitting minorities).



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25 Jan 2022, 12:28 pm

Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The only support "they" need from "us" is the removal of racist laws and the politicians who enact them.  Remove the institutional barriers, stand back, and watch them thrive.
That is what being an ally is and thinking the professor got the consequences for his behavior is also being an ally as well by being supportive of people who stood up to him.  It's interesting that the right wing propaganda tries and twist this to saying that the minorities are weak and not smart enough and inferior.
It is not just the Right that says this (as an excuse for denying minorities equal rights); it is also the Left that says this (as an excuse for Affirmative Action and other programs benefitting minorities).


And do you know why programs exist to help benefit minorities? It's because of systemic racism. Think of it as why disability accommodations exist as well like programs that employ people with disabilities or job services for those who are disabled or grants that exist for people with disabilities when they go to college, etc. and it is not because we are weak or inferior. People will play the reverse uno to justify their bigotry and to keep discriminating against us. Sure my school may have used the excuse "But we want her to be independent and learn right from wrong" to keep justifying their poor treatment of me.

I have learned more as an adult that rules tend to be enforced more on kids with disabilities than on NT students and even my own mother agrees this is totally unfair. I also say maybe kids with disabilities would have less behavior issues if they were treated fairly like enforce rules on all students than on them only because we can tell and if we see we are treated as inferior and see these double standards, we will fight. Even my therapist told my school this was not a League Girl problem and this was a system problem. And she also said she would be frustrated too and probably act out as well and not learn in that environment as well because of other kids acting silly and goofy because the student teacher doesn't know how to keep her audience and no other teacher is there to supervise. She also said how I am acting in that situation is very good and she bet I learned nothing that day because all my focus went to myself to be perfect. But even as a kid I felt bullied by adults so of course I acted out. It was a bunch of adults against 1. Of course I needed allys, my parents and my therapist. But hey even we disabled adults get programs because of systemic ableism.

I used to think I didn't need these things because like you, I also thought it would mean I was weak and inferior but I realize now it really is harder for most of us to get by in life because of systemic ableism. This is also why programs exist for minorities too now.


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