Jan 6th Hearings
27 Jun 2022, 2:57 am
Matrix Glitch wrote:
It seems like those who want him out of the picture the most, keep him in it the most.
Trump goes to heroic lengths to keep himself in the picture. Still holds rallies. And above all...still maintains the big lie.
I know that its hard. You at one time liked Trump, and its humiliating for you to keep hearing about him now. When I was a kid I liked Bill Cosby. Its painful to hear about his scandals now. But I dont go around blaming others for talking about Cosby's scandals.
And Cosby is not even a potential dictator of the US -the way Trump is. So he is nowhere near as important as Trump. So the American people of all political stripes have no choice but keep on discussing Trump.
Seriously ...if talk about Trump bothers you so much ...what stops you from writing a letter to Trump (like you might write to your congressman), and politely ask your one time idol to drop the Big Lie, and to acknowledge that Biden won the election? If enough Trumpers did that he might do it. And if he did do that -one thing -it would eliminate 90 percent of the chatter about Trump now.
27 Jun 2022, 3:41 am
naturalplastic wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
It seems like those who want him out of the picture the most, keep him in it the most.
Trump goes to heroic lengths to keep himself in the picture. Still holds rallies. And above all...still maintains the big lie.
I know that its hard. You at one time liked Trump
Since when? Why do you keep making things up? Like when you declared that I'm not an an American.
ASPartOfMe
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27 Jun 2022, 11:31 am
Matrix Glitch wrote:
The longer investigations go on leading to no indictments, the more not guilty he looks.
The more resistance seems futile, the more he knows he can get away with, the more some of his supporters feel emboldened to troll and bully, the more pathetic opponents look and dispirited they become. In short the more he seems to have a super power that makes him untouchable and is kyriptonite to opponents.
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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
27 Jun 2022, 9:19 pm
It depends on the individual, but I think in most cases 78 is too old to take on such a demanding role. There's too much of a chance of cognitive decline at that age for someone who needs to be at peak performance mentally. Reagan was 78 when he left office, and he was pretty doddery by then.
27 Jun 2022, 10:17 pm
Matrix Glitch wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Common sense dictates that Trump did some really felonious things.
And that he has a total disregard for the Constitution.
And that he has a total disregard for the Constitution.
No doubt. But an actual jail time charge after all these years would be nice. So far it's been like coyote vs roadrunner.
Successful businessmen like Trump learn the art of legal self-protection early on. He rarely actually says he wants the illegal thing; just pushes in a way that everyone knows what he means, without having specifics to pin him down in a court of law. It's apparent in all the questionable recorded calls we've heard. There is always just enough room to spin in reasonable doubt.
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ASPartOfMe
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28 Jun 2022, 5:06 pm
Trump wanted to join Jan. 6 Capitol riot, tried to grab limo steering wheel
Quote:
Donald Trump tried to grab the steering wheel of his presidential limousine on Jan. 6, 2021, when his security detail declined to take him to the U.S. Capitol where his supporters were rioting, a former aide testified on Tuesday.
The then-president dismissed concerns that some supporters gathered for his fiery speech outside the White House that day carried AR-15-style rifles, instead asking security to stop screening attendees with magnetometers so the crowd would look larger, the aide testified.
"Take the effing mags away; they're not here to hurt me," Cassidy Hutchinson, a top aide to Trump's then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, quoted Trump as saying that morning.
Trump struggled with Secret Service agents who insisted he return to the White House rather than join supporters storming the Capitol where Congress was meeting to certify his rival Democratic President Joe Biden's victory, Hutchinson testified.
"'I'm the effing president. Take me up to the Capitol now,'" Hutchinson quoted an enraged Trump as saying. She said Trump tried from the back seat to grab the steering wheel of the heavily armored presidential vehicle and lunged in anger at a Secret Service official.
On social media Trump denied having grabbed the wheel.
"Her Fake story that I tried to grab the steering wheel of the White House Limousine in order to steer it to the Capitol Building is 'sick' and fraudulent," Trump wrote on Truth Social, his social media app.
At the end of about two hours of testimony, Representative Liz Cheney, one of two Republicans on the nine-member House panel, presented possible evidence of witness tampering and obstruction of justice.
She showed messages to unidentified witnesses advising them that an unidentified person would be watching their testimony closely and expecting loyalty.
Republican Mick Mulvaney, who served as Trump's chief of staff before Meadows, tweeted: "There is an old maxim: it's never the crime, it's always the cover-up. Things went very badly for the former President today. My guess is that it will get worse from here."
Hutchinson told the committee that Meadows and Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani had sought pardons from Trump.
Giuliani told WSYR radio in Syracuse, New York, on Tuesday that he had not sought a pardon.
Speaking in soft but assured tones, Hutchinson, 26, painted a picture of panicked White House officials bristling at the possibility of Trump joining what was to become a violent mob pushing its way into the Capitol, hunting for then-Vice President Mike Pence, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other lawmakers who were then certifying the victory of Biden over the Republican Trump.
Their worries focused on the potential criminal charges Trump and others could face.
"We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable," Hutchinson said White House counselor Pat Cipollone told her if Trump were to go to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
Hutchinson, who sat doors away from Trump's Oval Office, testified that days before the attack on the U.S. Capitol, Meadows knew of the looming violence that could unfold.
"'Things might get real, real bad on Jan. 6,'" she quoted him as saying inside the White House on Jan. 2 with her boss.
She testified that Giuliani had said of Jan. 6: "'We're going to the Capitol, it's going to be great. The president's going to be there; he's going to look powerful.'"
At that point, she told the House committee of seven Democrats and two Republicans: "It was the first moment that I remembered feeling scared and nervous of what could happen on Jan. 6."
Hutchinson told the committee that it was not unusual for Trump to throw food when he was angry: "There were several times throughout my tenure with the chief of staff that I was aware of him either throwing dishes or flipping the tablecloth to let all the contents of the table go onto the floor and likely break or go everywhere."
The then-president dismissed concerns that some supporters gathered for his fiery speech outside the White House that day carried AR-15-style rifles, instead asking security to stop screening attendees with magnetometers so the crowd would look larger, the aide testified.
"Take the effing mags away; they're not here to hurt me," Cassidy Hutchinson, a top aide to Trump's then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, quoted Trump as saying that morning.
Trump struggled with Secret Service agents who insisted he return to the White House rather than join supporters storming the Capitol where Congress was meeting to certify his rival Democratic President Joe Biden's victory, Hutchinson testified.
"'I'm the effing president. Take me up to the Capitol now,'" Hutchinson quoted an enraged Trump as saying. She said Trump tried from the back seat to grab the steering wheel of the heavily armored presidential vehicle and lunged in anger at a Secret Service official.
On social media Trump denied having grabbed the wheel.
"Her Fake story that I tried to grab the steering wheel of the White House Limousine in order to steer it to the Capitol Building is 'sick' and fraudulent," Trump wrote on Truth Social, his social media app.
At the end of about two hours of testimony, Representative Liz Cheney, one of two Republicans on the nine-member House panel, presented possible evidence of witness tampering and obstruction of justice.
She showed messages to unidentified witnesses advising them that an unidentified person would be watching their testimony closely and expecting loyalty.
Republican Mick Mulvaney, who served as Trump's chief of staff before Meadows, tweeted: "There is an old maxim: it's never the crime, it's always the cover-up. Things went very badly for the former President today. My guess is that it will get worse from here."
Hutchinson told the committee that Meadows and Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani had sought pardons from Trump.
Giuliani told WSYR radio in Syracuse, New York, on Tuesday that he had not sought a pardon.
Speaking in soft but assured tones, Hutchinson, 26, painted a picture of panicked White House officials bristling at the possibility of Trump joining what was to become a violent mob pushing its way into the Capitol, hunting for then-Vice President Mike Pence, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other lawmakers who were then certifying the victory of Biden over the Republican Trump.
Their worries focused on the potential criminal charges Trump and others could face.
"We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable," Hutchinson said White House counselor Pat Cipollone told her if Trump were to go to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
Hutchinson, who sat doors away from Trump's Oval Office, testified that days before the attack on the U.S. Capitol, Meadows knew of the looming violence that could unfold.
"'Things might get real, real bad on Jan. 6,'" she quoted him as saying inside the White House on Jan. 2 with her boss.
She testified that Giuliani had said of Jan. 6: "'We're going to the Capitol, it's going to be great. The president's going to be there; he's going to look powerful.'"
At that point, she told the House committee of seven Democrats and two Republicans: "It was the first moment that I remembered feeling scared and nervous of what could happen on Jan. 6."
Hutchinson told the committee that it was not unusual for Trump to throw food when he was angry: "There were several times throughout my tenure with the chief of staff that I was aware of him either throwing dishes or flipping the tablecloth to let all the contents of the table go onto the floor and likely break or go everywhere."
N.Y. Post Live Updates
Quote:
Hutchinson said White House staffers urged Trump to address Capitol riot because of fears the 25th Amendment would be invoked
Cassidy Hutchinson said a number of White House staffers -- including chief of staff Mark Meadows, White House counsel Pat Cipillone, and Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner -- urged President Donald Trump to make a more forceful speech the day after the Jan. 6 riot because of fears the 25th Amendment would be invoked to remove him from office.
"A large concern was the 25th Amendment potentially being invoked, and there are concerns about what would happen in the Senate if the 25th was invoked," Hutchinson said in a videotaped deposition played for the committee.
"So the primary reason that I had heard other than, you know, we did not do enough on the 6th, we need to get a stronger message out there and condemn this [was] 'This will be your legacy,'" she said.
"The secondary reasons for that was, 'Think about what might happen in the final 15 days of your presidency if we don't do this. There's already talks about invoking the 25th Amendment, you need this as cover,'" she said.
Cassidy Hutchinson said a number of White House staffers -- including chief of staff Mark Meadows, White House counsel Pat Cipillone, and Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner -- urged President Donald Trump to make a more forceful speech the day after the Jan. 6 riot because of fears the 25th Amendment would be invoked to remove him from office.
"A large concern was the 25th Amendment potentially being invoked, and there are concerns about what would happen in the Senate if the 25th was invoked," Hutchinson said in a videotaped deposition played for the committee.
"So the primary reason that I had heard other than, you know, we did not do enough on the 6th, we need to get a stronger message out there and condemn this [was] 'This will be your legacy,'" she said.
"The secondary reasons for that was, 'Think about what might happen in the final 15 days of your presidency if we don't do this. There's already talks about invoking the 25th Amendment, you need this as cover,'" she said.
CNN
Quote:
It was previously known that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol, but Hutchinson's testimony established for the first time that people around Trump had advance knowledge of this plan.
The reality of Trump's intentions became clear to national security officials in real time as they learned the Secret Service was scrambling to find a way for the former President to travel to the Capitol while he was on stage urging his followers to march, according to National Security Council chat logs from that day that were revealed for the first time during Tuesday's hearing.
The NSC chat logs provide a minute-by-minute accounting of how the situation evolved from the perspective of top White House national security officials on January 6 and, along with witness testimony delivered on Tuesday, contradict an account by Meadows in his book where he says Trump never intended to march to the Capitol.
"MOGUL's going to the Capital ... they are clearing a route now," a message sent to the chat log at 12:29 p.m. ET on January 6 reads -- referring to the former President's secret service code name.
"MilAide has confirmed that he wants to walk," a 12:32 p.m. message reads. "They are begging him to reconsider."
"So this is happening," a message sent at 12:47 p.m. states.
Hutchinson also testified that some in Trump's orbit had made clear days before January 6 that Trump wanted to travel to the US Capitol.
She told the committee Tuesday that Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani told her on January 2 -- four days before the US Capitol was attacked by Trump supporters -- that "we're going to the Capitol" on January 6, and that Trump himself was also planning to be there.
Trump defended the rioters chanting for the hanging of then-Vice President Mike Pence on January 6, according to Hutchinson.
Hutchinson relayed a conversation she observed between White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and Meadows after they discussed with Trump the chants to inflict violence on Pence.
"I remember Pat saying something to the effect of 'Mark, we need to do something more. They're literally calling for the vice president to be f**king hung,'" Hutchinson recalled.
Meadows replied, "You heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong," according to Hutchinson.
Cipollone responded, "This is f**king crazy. We need to be doing something more."
Hutchinson testified that Cipollone had previously rushed into Meadows' office after rioters breached the Capitol and told Meadows what had happened, and said they needed to go meet with Trump.
"Mark, something needs to be done, or people are going to die and the blood's gonna be on your f**king hands," Cipollone told Meadows, according to Hutchinson. "This is getting out of control."
The reality of Trump's intentions became clear to national security officials in real time as they learned the Secret Service was scrambling to find a way for the former President to travel to the Capitol while he was on stage urging his followers to march, according to National Security Council chat logs from that day that were revealed for the first time during Tuesday's hearing.
The NSC chat logs provide a minute-by-minute accounting of how the situation evolved from the perspective of top White House national security officials on January 6 and, along with witness testimony delivered on Tuesday, contradict an account by Meadows in his book where he says Trump never intended to march to the Capitol.
"MOGUL's going to the Capital ... they are clearing a route now," a message sent to the chat log at 12:29 p.m. ET on January 6 reads -- referring to the former President's secret service code name.
"MilAide has confirmed that he wants to walk," a 12:32 p.m. message reads. "They are begging him to reconsider."
"So this is happening," a message sent at 12:47 p.m. states.
Hutchinson also testified that some in Trump's orbit had made clear days before January 6 that Trump wanted to travel to the US Capitol.
She told the committee Tuesday that Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani told her on January 2 -- four days before the US Capitol was attacked by Trump supporters -- that "we're going to the Capitol" on January 6, and that Trump himself was also planning to be there.
Trump defended the rioters chanting for the hanging of then-Vice President Mike Pence on January 6, according to Hutchinson.
Hutchinson relayed a conversation she observed between White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and Meadows after they discussed with Trump the chants to inflict violence on Pence.
"I remember Pat saying something to the effect of 'Mark, we need to do something more. They're literally calling for the vice president to be f**king hung,'" Hutchinson recalled.
Meadows replied, "You heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong," according to Hutchinson.
Cipollone responded, "This is f**king crazy. We need to be doing something more."
Hutchinson testified that Cipollone had previously rushed into Meadows' office after rioters breached the Capitol and told Meadows what had happened, and said they needed to go meet with Trump.
"Mark, something needs to be done, or people are going to die and the blood's gonna be on your f**king hands," Cipollone told Meadows, according to Hutchinson. "This is getting out of control."
Even Fox News Is Calling Cassidy Hutchinson’s Jan. 6 Testimony ‘Devastating’
Quote:
The news Tuesday was so bad for Donald Trump that even Fox News couldn’t find a way to spin it in his favor.
“I’ve covered politics a long time,” Bret Baier said on the air. “I don’t think there has been testimony like this — that is kind of jaw-dropping, in a way — on the inside workings of a White House in crisis after, you know, at this moment, Jan. 6, that we have seen since Watergate.”
Baier continued to comment on Hutchinson’s testimony. “Bottom line though, this testimony is stunning … I think this — it does move the ball in this hearing,” he said.
Joining Baier, former Assistant U.S. Attorney Andrew C. McCarthy called Hutchinson’s testimony “devastating” to Trump. “I must say, watching this, it’s devastating testimony,” he said before noting that there is no cross-examination of these witnesses.
Later, Baier discounted complaints from Trump as the former president tried desperately to discredit Hutchinson in a statement posted to his social media platform, Truth Social. “I hardly know who this person … is, other than I heard very negative things about her (a total phony and ‘leaker’),” Trump wrote.
“She is bad news!” he added.
But Baier was not impressed. “Cassie Hutchinson is under oath on Capitol Hill. The president is on Truth Social making his statements,” he said.
Baier has long had more credibility than his Fox News peers, and the gap grew Tuesday.
“I’ve covered politics a long time,” Bret Baier said on the air. “I don’t think there has been testimony like this — that is kind of jaw-dropping, in a way — on the inside workings of a White House in crisis after, you know, at this moment, Jan. 6, that we have seen since Watergate.”
Baier continued to comment on Hutchinson’s testimony. “Bottom line though, this testimony is stunning … I think this — it does move the ball in this hearing,” he said.
Joining Baier, former Assistant U.S. Attorney Andrew C. McCarthy called Hutchinson’s testimony “devastating” to Trump. “I must say, watching this, it’s devastating testimony,” he said before noting that there is no cross-examination of these witnesses.
Later, Baier discounted complaints from Trump as the former president tried desperately to discredit Hutchinson in a statement posted to his social media platform, Truth Social. “I hardly know who this person … is, other than I heard very negative things about her (a total phony and ‘leaker’),” Trump wrote.
“She is bad news!” he added.
But Baier was not impressed. “Cassie Hutchinson is under oath on Capitol Hill. The president is on Truth Social making his statements,” he said.
Baier has long had more credibility than his Fox News peers, and the gap grew Tuesday.
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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 28 Jun 2022, 6:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
28 Jun 2022, 5:18 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I feel mildly surprised, but certainly not amazed, since the events described in the testimony are in line with what others have told about Trump's behavior.
