Bigoted students run Brooklyn High School

Page 2 of 2 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,578
Location: Right over your left shoulder

24 May 2024, 2:19 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
If it hasn't happened by now, IMO, these students who have expressed Anti-Semitism should be expelled
and have charges filed against them.


Expressing antisemitism isn't a crime, so what charges would be applied? Specific instances of criminal behaviour maybe could have charges applied, but a lot of the behaviour described either isn't criminal or doesn't have an identified culprit or both.


In some countries, it's criminalized, as with all other forms of hate speech. Holocaust denial is a *felony* in Germany.


However none of those countries have jurisdiction so the laws that exist outside of New York state aren't even slightly relevant to a discussion around an incident that occurred in the Bronx.


The US seriously needs anti-hate speech laws, but a certain political party is keeping that from happening because, you know, religious freedom.


It's more than that. Making politically undesirable speech a felony would require ignoring established precedent when it comes to the constitution. Not to mention if you make it legally acceptable to ban disagreeable speech it'll end up with right-wingers coming after your speech rather than the other way around.

Even right now, look at how some people attempt to define antisemitism. Do you really want calling for Palestinian freedom to be a crime? Because that's what you'll get, meanwhile queer people and other racial minorities remain unprotected because the political will to protect them doesn't exist.

When you're advocating to make things less free you need to consider how those laws will be used against the causes you support because odds are they will be. That's how it works when your views aren't the majority and your typical proposed solution of making America a dictatorship isn't going to make more left leaning views become the majority.

At best your solution would lead to a civil war. At best.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,121
Location: the island of defective toy santas

24 May 2024, 2:46 pm

say what you want to me but if the jejune and brain-dead bile is accompanied by fists, i have the right to fkkk somebody up with whatever weapons are at my disposal. i hope none of those teachers were physically assaulted.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,502
Location: temperate zone

25 May 2024, 8:38 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Expressing antisemitism isn't a crime, so what charges would be applied? Specific instances of criminal behaviour maybe could have charges applied, but a lot of the behaviour described either isn't criminal or doesn't have an identified culprit or both.


In some countries, it's criminalized, as with all other forms of hate speech. Holocaust denial is a *felony* in Germany.[/quote]

However none of those countries have jurisdiction so the laws that exist outside of New York state aren't even slightly relevant to a discussion around an incident that occurred in the Bronx.[/quote]

The US seriously needs anti-hate speech laws, but a certain political party is keeping that from happening because, you know, religious freedom.[/quote]

It's more than that. Making politically undesirable speech a felony would require ignoring established precedent when it comes to the constitution. Not to mention if you make it legally acceptable to ban disagreeable speech it'll end up with right-wingers coming after your speech rather than the other way around.

Even right now, look at how some people attempt to define antisemitism. Do you really want calling for Palestinian freedom to be a crime? Because that's what you'll get, meanwhile queer people and other racial minorities remain unprotected because the political will to protect them doesn't exist.

When you're advocating to make things less free you need to consider how those laws will be used against the causes you support because odds are they will be. That's how it works when your views aren't the majority and your typical proposed solution of making America a dictatorship isn't going to make more left leaning views become the majority.

At best your solution would lead to a civil war. At best.[/quote]
=============================================================================^what I am responding to========================================

Utter nonsense.

Adults are not going to fight "a civil war" because their underage kids get their wrists slapped for saying naughty things in school.

Indeed gun toting MAGA types would rejoice if all the Ay-rab kids in their childrens' school were deported. :lol:

Second: if I come up to you and call you an "SOB" legally thats "assault". If I call you and sonofabitch AND touch you with the tip of my index finger than thats "assault and battery".

On one hand: A high school kid writing a letter to the editor of the student run school newspaper (and it gets published in said paper) stating that "Hitler was the G.O.A.T., and that HAMAS did great things that October day and should do more of the same" is practicing "freedom of speech". But if the same kid comes up to a teacher, who happens to be Jewish, as says that sorta thing to the teacher's face, then the student is making a veiled threat, and its no longer a "freedom of speech" issue. The kid could be charged with assault, and with making threats.

Also this "tradition of freedom of speech" is not really much of a consistent "tradition" when applied to underage students in schools. Private schools and parochial schools are allowed to censor their students any and all ways that they want.

Its only in public schools that students are allowed some freedom of speech in things like the school newspaper because the constitution says "Congress can make no laws abridging the freedom of speech"...the word "Congress" came to be interpreted to mean "the whole government". And since public schools are government run then they have constraints on how much they can constrain the freedom of speech of their students, but private and parochial schools do not have that constraint.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,955
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

26 May 2024, 2:27 am

funeralxempire wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
If it hasn't happened by now, IMO, these students who have expressed Anti-Semitism should be expelled
and have charges filed against them.


Expressing antisemitism isn't a crime, so what charges would be applied? Specific instances of criminal behaviour maybe could have charges applied, but a lot of the behaviour described either isn't criminal or doesn't have an identified culprit or both.


Threatening the teacher's life certainly is a crime, as is harassment. And even if criminal charges aren't brought against these students, the administration is not only within their rights to discipline the students, it's an absolute necessity to uphold order in the school that they do.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,578
Location: Right over your left shoulder

30 May 2024, 12:48 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Utter nonsense.

Adults are not going to fight "a civil war" because their underage kids get their wrists slapped for saying naughty things in school.

Indeed gun toting MAGA types would rejoice if all the Ay-rab kids in their childrens' school were deported. :lol:

Second: if I come up to you and call you an "SOB" legally thats "assault". If I call you and sonofabitch AND touch you with the tip of my index finger than thats "assault and battery".

On one hand: A high school kid writing a letter to the editor of the student run school newspaper (and it gets published in said paper) stating that "Hitler was the G.O.A.T., and that HAMAS did great things that October day and should do more of the same" is practicing "freedom of speech". But if the same kid comes up to a teacher, who happens to be Jewish, as says that sorta thing to the teacher's face, then the student is making a veiled threat, and its no longer a "freedom of speech" issue. The kid could be charged with assault, and with making threats.

Also this "tradition of freedom of speech" is not really much of a consistent "tradition" when applied to underage students in schools. Private schools and parochial schools are allowed to censor their students any and all ways that they want.

Its only in public schools that students are allowed some freedom of speech in things like the school newspaper because the constitution says "Congress can make no laws abridging the freedom of speech"...the word "Congress" came to be interpreted to mean "the whole government". And since public schools are government run then they have constraints on how much they can constrain the freedom of speech of their students, but private and parochial schools do not have that constraint.


Look up Tinker v. Des Moines and the other relevant cases before you weigh in.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators


Last edited by funeralxempire on 30 May 2024, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,578
Location: Right over your left shoulder

30 May 2024, 12:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
If it hasn't happened by now, IMO, these students who have expressed Anti-Semitism should be expelled
and have charges filed against them.


Expressing antisemitism isn't a crime, so what charges would be applied? Specific instances of criminal behaviour maybe could have charges applied, but a lot of the behaviour described either isn't criminal or doesn't have an identified culprit or both.


Threatening the teacher's life certainly is a crime, as is harassment. And even if criminal charges aren't brought against these students, the administration is not only within their rights to discipline the students, it's an absolute necessity to uphold order in the school that they do.


If they've got enough evidence they should attempt to charge the student who's alleged to have made death threats.

If not, they can't.

If the teacher is unable to use their authority effectively they should probably get looking for a job they're capable of.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
GOP Predators