[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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Jono
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21 Jun 2024, 12:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Jono wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:


And yet, the UN report on the matter already concluded that mass sexual crimes probably were committed on 7 October by Hamas. I usually go with what's been established but sure.


I'm sure it's more politically convenient for you to continue to believe debunked claims but that doesn't mean those claims can actually hold water when scrutinized.

Reality isn't subservient to your feelings however and the reality appears to be that Israel has greatly overstated the extent to which SA occurred on October 7th. This doesn't mean literally zero instances occurred, only that it wasn't widespread or conducted in an organized manner to the extent that Israel has attempted to claim (without evidence).


So why did the UN report into the incident conclude that there probably was widespread SA? I judge official investigative reports to be more reliable than random news reports. There might of been some cases where there was fake news or false reporting but I'm not buying that the whole allegation of widespread SA was entirely debunked.



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21 Jun 2024, 1:03 pm

The recent UN report dismissed claims of rape as a weapon of war as unfounded Jono. You're going to have to try harder to deny reality.


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Last edited by funeralxempire on 21 Jun 2024, 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Jun 2024, 1:06 pm


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Jono
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21 Jun 2024, 2:22 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
The recent UN report dismissed claims of rape as a weapon of war as unfounded Jono. You're going to have to try harder to deny reality.


Oh really?

Quote:
There are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang-rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery during the attacks on 7 October 2023, a senior United Nations official reported to the Security Council today, as she presented findings from her visit to Israel and the occupied West Bank.

Following allegations of brutal sexual violence committed during and in the aftermath of the Hamas-led terror attacks, Pramila Patten, the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict, led an official visit to Israel from 29 January to 14 February to gather, analyse and verify reports of sexual violence related to the 7 October attack. Due to ongoing hostilities, the Special Representative did not request to visit Gaza, where other UN entities that monitor sexual violence are operational.


https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm#:~:text=There%20are%20reasonable%20grounds%20to,as%20she%20presented%20findings%20from

That is not what this sounds like to me. There's also this:

Quote:
In the context of the coordinated attack by Hamas and other armed groups against civilian and military targets throughout the Gaza periphery, the mission team found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks, including rape and gang-rape in at least three locations, namely: the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re’im. In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed, and at least two incidents relate to the rape of women’s corpses.

The mission team also found a pattern of victims, mostly women, found fully or partially naked, bound, and shot across multiple locations. Although circumstantial, such a pattern may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.


https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/press-release/israel-west-bank-mission/

These are directly from the UN website. What am I missing?



funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2024, 10:28 pm

Jono wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The recent UN report dismissed claims of rape as a weapon of war as unfounded Jono. You're going to have to try harder to deny reality.


Oh really?

Quote:
There are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang-rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery during the attacks on 7 October 2023, a senior United Nations official reported to the Security Council today, as she presented findings from her visit to Israel and the occupied West Bank.

Following allegations of brutal sexual violence committed during and in the aftermath of the Hamas-led terror attacks, Pramila Patten, the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict, led an official visit to Israel from 29 January to 14 February to gather, analyse and verify reports of sexual violence related to the 7 October attack. Due to ongoing hostilities, the Special Representative did not request to visit Gaza, where other UN entities that monitor sexual violence are operational.


https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm#:~:text=There%20are%20reasonable%20grounds%20to,as%20she%20presented%20findings%20from

That is not what this sounds like to me. There's also this:

Quote:
In the context of the coordinated attack by Hamas and other armed groups against civilian and military targets throughout the Gaza periphery, the mission team found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks, including rape and gang-rape in at least three locations, namely: the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re’im. In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed, and at least two incidents relate to the rape of women’s corpses.

The mission team also found a pattern of victims, mostly women, found fully or partially naked, bound, and shot across multiple locations. Although circumstantial, such a pattern may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.


https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/press-release/israel-west-bank-mission/

These are directly from the UN website. What am I missing?


Recognizing that incidents of sexual assaults occurred is not the same as having enough evidence to make the case that there was a was coordinated campaign of sexual assaults as a weapon of war.

Meanwhile the UN has explicitly said that specific forms of sexual and gender-based violence constitute part of the Israeli security force's operating procedures.



That specific quote appears after 5:20.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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funeralxempire
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01 Jul 2024, 5:30 pm

https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1807489075340816530

This is a translation of Al Jazeera’s exclusive report on footage showing Palestinians being used as human shields

The footage reveals instances such as forcing men to search for explosives, tying them with ropes & throwing them into tunnels, and using injured to search for fighters.

This is obviously a war crime.


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cyberdad
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03 Jul 2024, 1:37 am

No sure why it's hard to understand FE?
HAMAS used rape to terrorise,
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-03-04/

to quote"Often, the rape was conducted in front of an audience — partners, family, or friends — in a manner intended to increase the pain and humiliation of all present,” the study found."

I'm afraid this is clear form of systematic terror intended to humiliate and trigger the IDF to retaliate which is what HAMAS Iranian backers wanted.



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06 Jul 2024, 9:24 pm

cyberdad wrote:
No sure why it's hard to understand FE?
HAMAS used rape to terrorise,
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-03-04/

to quote"Often, the rape was conducted in front of an audience — partners, family, or friends — in a manner intended to increase the pain and humiliation of all present,” the study found."

I'm afraid this is clear form of systematic terror intended to humiliate and trigger the IDF to retaliate which is what HAMAS Iranian backers wanted.


You seem unable to distinguish between something happening because there was an opportunity vs. as part of a pre-planned strategy.

If you can prove the latter, please do because so far those claims have been debunked.

If you can't, stop pretending like there's no difference.


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cyberdad
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06 Jul 2024, 10:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
You seem unable to distinguish between something happening because there was an opportunity vs. as part of a pre-planned strategy.
If you can prove the latter, please do because so far those claims have been debunked.


Debunked? why are you pretending to not be able to think critically about why Oct 7th happened?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/ha ... ce/3221931
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202407018033

As I said, HAMAS forced Israel to respond, they are reaping the benefits, Hezbollah have also reaped the benefits.
Who wins when HAMAS and Hezbollah are cleansed in the eyes of the Arab league?
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404127530
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202402291130

the Palestinian cause has been long hijacked by terrorist states



funeralxempire
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06 Jul 2024, 10:38 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You seem unable to distinguish between something happening because there was an opportunity vs. as part of a pre-planned strategy.
If you can prove the latter, please do because so far those claims have been debunked.


Debunked?


Yes, debunked as my previous posts on the matter have addressed.


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