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TW1ZTY
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27 Oct 2019, 8:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Even Ben Shapiro is now calling for civil war:



So what is this about the left being the violent ones or the left being just as bad?

Of course, right-wingers here will say, "But Kathy Griffin!11" while ignoring the fact that what she did met with nearly universal condemnation from the left as well as the right. But are the right-wingers going to condemn Ben Shapiro and the other right-wing commentators here? If not, then the 2 sides are NOT the same.


I'd like to see those clips in their context. The second one they showed looked like footage I've seen of liberals setting fires in the streets. Also I noticed that in some of the blurbs the footage was jumpy, the voices sounded distorted and and the words were out of sync with mouth movements. I really don't see how you can keep presenting a quasi news program like TYT with a straight face.


It's not conceivable that right wingers could threaten violence?


Personally I think they are both capable of violence.



beneficii
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27 Oct 2019, 8:57 pm

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Even Ben Shapiro is now calling for civil war:



So what is this about the left being the violent ones or the left being just as bad?

Of course, right-wingers here will say, "But Kathy Griffin!11" while ignoring the fact that what she did met with nearly universal condemnation from the left as well as the right. But are the right-wingers going to condemn Ben Shapiro and the other right-wing commentators here? If not, then the 2 sides are NOT the same.


I'd like to see those clips in their context. The second one they showed looked like footage I've seen of liberals setting fires in the streets. Also I noticed that in some of the blurbs the footage was jumpy, the voices sounded distorted and and the words were out of sync with mouth movements. I really don't see how you can keep presenting a quasi news program like TYT with a straight face.


OK, I guess this is your way of slipping out of responsibility for condemning calls for violence from the right. This I think accords quite well with you earlier in this thread--I think it was this thread--essentially "warning" Democrats if they do certain things they could face violence.


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TW1ZTY
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27 Oct 2019, 9:02 pm

When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?



EzraS
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27 Oct 2019, 9:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Even Ben Shapiro is now calling for civil war:



So what is this about the left being the violent ones or the left being just as bad?

Of course, right-wingers here will say, "But Kathy Griffin!11" while ignoring the fact that what she did met with nearly universal condemnation from the left as well as the right. But are the right-wingers going to condemn Ben Shapiro and the other right-wing commentators here? If not, then the 2 sides are NOT the same.


I'd like to see those clips in their context. The second one they showed looked like footage I've seen of liberals setting fires in the streets. Also I noticed that in some of the blurbs the footage was jumpy, the voices sounded distorted and and the words were out of sync with mouth movements. I really don't see how you can keep presenting a quasi news program like TYT with a straight face.


It's not conceivable that right wingers could threaten violence?


Do you have a more convincing presentation to offer?



beneficii
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27 Oct 2019, 9:20 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


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TW1ZTY
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27 Oct 2019, 9:29 pm

beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


You claim that the left does not want violence and yet I find articles about people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats in public.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... -pop-up%2F

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject ... 1206002%2F



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27 Oct 2019, 9:40 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


You claim that the left does not want violence and yet I find articles about people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats in public.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... -pop-up%2F

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject ... 1206002%2F


I think the feeling among most is that wearing a MEGA hat is a good way to get assaulted.



TW1ZTY
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27 Oct 2019, 9:51 pm

EzraS wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


You claim that the left does not want violence and yet I find articles about people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats in public.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... -pop-up%2F

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject ... 1206002%2F


I think the feeling among most is that wearing a MEGA hat is a good way to get assaulted.


I hate Trump, and I don't like most Trump supporters because many of the ones I have met are indeed bigots and jerks. But that's no excuse for assualting somebody over their political beliefs.

My brother and nana are both Trump supporters and while I disagree with their support of him, if somebody assaulted my family over their political beliefs I'd want them arrested for it!



beneficii
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27 Oct 2019, 10:39 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


You claim that the left does not want violence and yet I find articles about people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats in public.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... -pop-up%2F

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject ... 1206002%2F


I believe I mentioned a few nutcases, who are condemned by the rest.

The point is that the violence by the right-wing is worse, and is implicitly supported by the right-wing. This is different from what happens on the left. The two sides are not the same.

In addition, I would like to make clear. We live in a two-party system, someone who falls for the adage of "there's no difference between the two sides" and who is autistic and who would have voted for a Democrat otherwise, is benefiting the Republican Party, who will pass policies that affect them negatively. This is what I think that campaign is all about. It's meant to target primarily people on the left to splinter it, which would ensure Trump 2020. Even if you Ezra and others aren't aware of it, that is the whole point of the campaign and why it perpetuates.


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EzraS
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27 Oct 2019, 11:25 pm

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Even Ben Shapiro is now calling for civil war:



So what is this about the left being the violent ones or the left being just as bad?

Of course, right-wingers here will say, "But Kathy Griffin!11" while ignoring the fact that what she did met with nearly universal condemnation from the left as well as the right. But are the right-wingers going to condemn Ben Shapiro and the other right-wing commentators here? If not, then the 2 sides are NOT the same.


I'd like to see those clips in their context. The second one they showed looked like footage I've seen of liberals setting fires in the streets. Also I noticed that in some of the blurbs the footage was jumpy, the voices sounded distorted and and the words were out of sync with mouth movements. I really don't see how you can keep presenting a quasi news program like TYT with a straight face.


OK, I guess this is your way of slipping out of responsibility for condemning calls for violence from the right. This I think accords quite well with you earlier in this thread--I think it was this thread--essentially "warning" Democrats if they do certain things they could face violence.


Hardly. I'm just pragmatic and analytical.



EzraS
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27 Oct 2019, 11:31 pm

beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


You claim that the left does not want violence and yet I find articles about people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats in public.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... -pop-up%2F

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject ... 1206002%2F


I believe I mentioned a few nutcases, who are condemned by the rest.

The point is that the violence by the right-wing is worse, and is implicitly supported by the right-wing. This is different from what happens on the left. The two sides are not the same.

In addition, I would like to make clear. We live in a two-party system, someone who falls for the adage of "there's no difference between the two sides" and who is autistic and who would have voted for a Democrat otherwise, is benefiting the Republican Party, who will pass policies that affect them negatively. This is what I think that campaign is all about. It's meant to target primarily people on the left to splinter it, which would ensure Trump 2020. Even if you Ezra and others aren't aware of it, that is the whole point of the campaign and why it perpetuates.


All I am asking for is more compelling evedence. If the best you can come up with is a TYT segment showing dodgy clips then there's nothing of real substance to support your claims.



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28 Oct 2019, 12:34 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Even Ben Shapiro is now calling for civil war:



So what is this about the left being the violent ones or the left being just as bad?

Of course, right-wingers here will say, "But Kathy Griffin!11" while ignoring the fact that what she did met with nearly universal condemnation from the left as well as the right. But are the right-wingers going to condemn Ben Shapiro and the other right-wing commentators here? If not, then the 2 sides are NOT the same.


I'd like to see those clips in their context. The second one they showed looked like footage I've seen of liberals setting fires in the streets. Also I noticed that in some of the blurbs the footage was jumpy, the voices sounded distorted and and the words were out of sync with mouth movements. I really don't see how you can keep presenting a quasi news program like TYT with a straight face.


It's not conceivable that right wingers could threaten violence?


Do you have a more convincing presentation to offer?


Yes - - the initial Young Turks broadcast presented the right's rhetoric.


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28 Oct 2019, 12:38 am

TW1ZTY wrote:
EzraS wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


You claim that the left does not want violence and yet I find articles about people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats in public.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... -pop-up%2F

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject ... 1206002%2F


I think the feeling among most is that wearing a MEGA hat is a good way to get assaulted.


I hate Trump, and I don't like most Trump supporters because many of the ones I have met are indeed bigots and jerks. But that's no excuse for assualting somebody over their political beliefs.

My brother and nana are both Trump supporters and while I disagree with their support of him, if somebody assaulted my family over their political beliefs I'd want them arrested for it!


Personally, I don't think most Trump voters are violent, and yes, I agree anyone who assaults them should be arrested and prosecuted. But those Trump supporters who are violent should be treated the exact same way.


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EzraS
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28 Oct 2019, 12:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Even Ben Shapiro is now calling for civil war:



So what is this about the left being the violent ones or the left being just as bad?

Of course, right-wingers here will say, "But Kathy Griffin!11" while ignoring the fact that what she did met with nearly universal condemnation from the left as well as the right. But are the right-wingers going to condemn Ben Shapiro and the other right-wing commentators here? If not, then the 2 sides are NOT the same.


I'd like to see those clips in their context. The second one they showed looked like footage I've seen of liberals setting fires in the streets. Also I noticed that in some of the blurbs the footage was jumpy, the voices sounded distorted and and the words were out of sync with mouth movements. I really don't see how you can keep presenting a quasi news program like TYT with a straight face.


It's not conceivable that right wingers could threaten violence?


Do you have a more convincing presentation to offer?


Yes - - the initial Young Turks broadcast presented the right's rhetoric.


So the best evedence to date are brief dodgy clips presented by a youtube channel.



beneficii
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28 Oct 2019, 12:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
EzraS wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
beneficii wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
When the American Civil War happened, was the Union or the Confederacy more violent? Did it really matter in the end when they reached the breaking point of willing to slaughter each other in one of the bloodiest wars in US history?


The point of this thread is to discuss Trump supporters threatening violence, and the reluctance of the right to condemn them for these threats. The left does condemn others on the left who threaten violence. The left, aside from a few nutcases we condemn, emphatically does NOT want violence.

So aside from a few nutcases who have little to no support from the rest of the left, the left is neither ready nor willing to fight a civil war.

The issue is the right, which frequently passes around conspiracy theories (like the FEMA camps conspiracy that came out a few years ago), and which encourages stockpiling weapons to use against government agents. They are tacitly being encouraged by President Trump and there is not much condemnation from the right against them.

So I don't think your analogy works here.


You claim that the left does not want violence and yet I find articles about people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats in public.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v ... -pop-up%2F

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject ... 1206002%2F


I think the feeling among most is that wearing a MEGA hat is a good way to get assaulted.


I hate Trump, and I don't like most Trump supporters because many of the ones I have met are indeed bigots and jerks. But that's no excuse for assualting somebody over their political beliefs.

My brother and nana are both Trump supporters and while I disagree with their support of him, if somebody assaulted my family over their political beliefs I'd want them arrested for it!


Personally, I don't think most Trump voters are violent, and yes, I agree anyone who assaults them should be arrested and prosecuted. But those Trump supporters who are violent should be treated the exact same way.


I completely agree here.

But Twizty still seems to be under the notion that we don't believe this, for some reason. He seems to think that unless we think Democrats are just as bad as Republicans, then we believe the left is completely innocent and has never had a bad person ever. It's almost cartoonish, and it means we can't even have a real discussion here.


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28 Oct 2019, 12:58 am

TW1ZTY wrote:
My brother and nana are both Trump supporters and while I disagree with their support of him, if somebody assaulted my family over their political beliefs I'd want them arrested for it!


Everything is contextual. If your Nana or brother chose to support trump then that's their business.

If they chose to wear MAGA hats and walk into an all black college (like a few white girls tried as a stunt) then that's another matter. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ni ... a-incident

The Covington teens who wore MAGA hats were making a nuisance of themselves harrassing girls and eventually accosting an old native American.

Actually wearing a MAGA hat is now equivalent to wearing a confederate flag
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/21/opin ... index.html