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First mass shooting in the UK for over a decade.

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IsabellaLinton
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13 Aug 2021, 3:37 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Forget this guy's name, forget his face, don't care about his reasons, and throw him down the memory hole as quickly as possible, that's the way to treat this type of crime and criminal.



Well put. That's why I don't want to see his face or read his name.

If people want to do anything after crimes like this, they can advocate for mental health services in their own community, volunteer for victims'-rights groups, or do the most important thing of all - be a good role model in your own life.


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Dox47
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13 Aug 2021, 3:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
↑↑ As if anyone outside the 50 or so people who access this website on a daily basis constitute "The World".


I wasn't calling you out for it, just pointing something out to another poster. You were just repeating the Beast's story, which I do consider to be irresponsible journalism in light of what we know about mass killers and what drives them, but the Beast is also an obnoxious tabloid (that I read religiously), so I don't actually expect better.


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Last edited by Dox47 on 13 Aug 2021, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Aug 2021, 3:42 pm

I'm sorry, people.  I have reported every instance of the picture in this thread, and asked the mods to delete each one.



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13 Aug 2021, 3:44 pm

Dox47 wrote:
[...] You were just repeating the Beast's story, which I [i]do/i] consider to be irresponsible journalism in light of what we know about mass killers and what drives them, but the Beast is also an obnoxious tabloid (that I read religiously), so I don't actually expect better.
I usually do not post an article from The Beast unless it backs up or is backed up by a mainstream media article.



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13 Aug 2021, 3:47 pm

I always thought it's possible to learn something about a picture in these cases. Mainly this incident involved a scruffy deadbeat lowlife.

It's OK to remember his name provided he's called what he is along side it, a scummy trash bag.



Dox47
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13 Aug 2021, 3:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
I usually do not post an article from The Beast unless it backs up or is backed up by a mainstream media article.


That's my policy with them too, I use them as a sort of pointing service to stories I might have missed, and occasionally for funny celebrity gossip. I've learned to be wary of their original journalism, I've seen too many of their stories fall apart under scrutiny or be completely built around "anonymous sources" that can't be verified.


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13 Aug 2021, 4:18 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
If he'd just taken a shower ran a brush through that hair and beard and put on a clean shirt that would have helped 100%, of course not with his murderous attitude but in the looks department at least.

Indeed he's not physically bad looking at all, apart from being unkempt.

Until the past several years, we used to hear only about women having body-image problems. When I was young, heterosexual men used to think it was "unmanly" even to care about their looks, beyond basic grooming.

But we now have a whole subculture of men, some of whom actually are rather good-looking, or at least no worse-looking than average, obsessed with the idea that they are irredeemably ugly.


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13 Aug 2021, 4:26 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
[...] we now have a whole subculture of men, some of whom actually are rather good-looking, or at least no worse-looking than average, obsessed with the idea that they are irredeemably ugly.
Are you referring to "Angry Incels" or "Metrosexuals"?



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13 Aug 2021, 4:28 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
But we now have a whole subculture of men, some of whom actually are rather good-looking, obsessed with the idea that they are irredeemably ugly.


It's a cope, they don't want to have to examine that it might be their personalities that are off-putting, so they create this whole imaginary world of vapid women who are only attracted to chiseled Adonis looking men (Chads and Stacies) in order to avoid that mental confrontation that might be painful.

You can see signs of similar thinking here in L&D occasionally, though the variant I recall being more common here was the average looking guy living at home with his parents with no job and no prospects who has a 10 page list of requirements for anyone he'll date, who then complains he can't find anyone. I'm not sure what that's all about.


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Dox47
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13 Aug 2021, 4:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
Are you referring to "Angry Incels" or "Metrosexuals"?


I thought metrosexuals were just hetero guys who paid a lot of attention to their appearance, and were kind of lumped in with hipsters, rather than being a toxic internet subculture.


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13 Aug 2021, 4:35 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Are you referring to "Angry Incels" or "Metrosexuals"?
I thought metrosexuals were just hetero guys who paid a lot of attention to their appearance, and were kind of lumped in with hipsters, rather than being a toxic internet subculture.
I see these two types as opposite sides of the same coin -- obsessed with appearance and incapable of deep relationships.

It is related to the two-sided nature of Narcissism (e.g., obsession with self), with one side saying "I am worthless" and the other side saying "I am priceless".



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13 Aug 2021, 4:41 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Forget this guy's name, forget his face, don't care about his reasons, and throw him down the memory hole as quickly as possible, that's the way to treat this type of crime and criminal.
^ This.
Jacinda Ardern (PM of New Zealand) had the right idea when she publically called for the killer in the Christchurch mosque shootings to be rendered nameless, saying: "Speak the names of those who were lost rather than the name of the man who took them ... he will, when I speak, be nameless."


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13 Aug 2021, 4:42 pm

↑ Thank you for removing those images.



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14 Aug 2021, 2:32 am

Cornflake wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Forget this guy's name, forget his face, don't care about his reasons, and throw him down the memory hole as quickly as possible, that's the way to treat this type of crime and criminal.
^ This.
Jacinda Ardern (PM of New Zealand) had the right idea when she publically called for the killer in the Christchurch mosque shootings to be rendered nameless, saying: "Speak the names of those who were lost rather than the name of the man who took them ... he will, when I speak, be nameless."


It didn't work though. Everyone knows his name and face. I think attempting erase the names of these people is just erasing their motives and any understanding of them too. I just see it as dodging uncomfortable but needed conversations.



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14 Aug 2021, 3:10 am

Nades wrote:
It didn't work though. Everyone knows his name and face. I think attempting erase the names of these people is just erasing their motives and any understanding of them too. I just see it as dodging uncomfortable but needed conversations.


It's pretty simple, just say "the shooter" or "the killer" instead of using their name, don't post their pictures, and don't put a whole lot of time into their motive, it's almost always the same "the world wasn't paying attention to me and now I'm going to make them" when you get past all the manifestos.

There are exceptions, the Las Vegas shooter is still a complete mystery in nearly every way, the Pulse Nightclub shooter was a pure Islamic terrorist even though people thought it was an anti gay thing for a while, the Norwegian and New Zealand killers were some sort of political insanity, etc. I suppose I might say that the straight terrorism or political mass attacks are less bad to discuss, but even then there is a social contagion element to these things where others are inspired by reading about them that might never have ever thought "hey, that's something I could do, this loser managed it" if they hadn't seen the story.


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14 Aug 2021, 8:05 am

Dox47 wrote:
Nades wrote:
It didn't work though. Everyone knows his name and face. I think attempting erase the names of these people is just erasing their motives and any understanding of them too. I just see it as dodging uncomfortable but needed conversations.


It's pretty simple, just say "the shooter" or "the killer" instead of using their name, don't post their pictures, and don't put a whole lot of time into their motive, it's almost always the same "the world wasn't paying attention to me and now I'm going to make them" when you get past all the manifestos.

There are exceptions, the Las Vegas shooter is still a complete mystery in nearly every way, the Pulse Nightclub shooter was a pure Islamic terrorist even though people thought it was an anti gay thing for a while, the Norwegian and New Zealand killers were some sort of political insanity, etc. I suppose I might say that the straight terrorism or political mass attacks are less bad to discuss, but even then there is a social contagion element to these things where others are inspired by reading about them that might never have ever thought "hey, that's something I could do, this loser managed it" if they hadn't seen the story.


It seems more like a trade off to me.

Publicly condemning a shooter and scrutinizing their motives, possibly causing some other deranged nut case to admire them or :-

Sweeping it all under the rug ASAP and learning very little about the who or why.

I don't think either is right or wrong. From my perspective, if someone shot my family I would want to know who done it and everything about why they did it.