29 Oct 2019, 5:45 pm
29 Oct 2019, 5:47 pm
29 Oct 2019, 5:50 pm
29 Oct 2019, 5:52 pm
29 Oct 2019, 6:04 pm
29 Oct 2019, 6:48 pm
29 Oct 2019, 6:56 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,241
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2019, 6:59 pm
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kiprobalhato wrote:
sly279 wrote:
You all act like civil wars are bad.
WTF is this supposed to mean?
Was the civil war to end slavery bad? Is a civil war to end a dictatorship bad?
Civil wars are usually done to end bad things.
There’s always a reason civil wars happen some kind of big issue that causes tension to erupt into fighting.
Do you support people in Middle East fighting for their freedom? Do you support people in Africa, or South America fighting for theirs? Do you supoort Taiwan? What about Tebet?
If so then you support civil wars. Humans are a horrible species and sometimes the only way to bring good change is bloodshed, if not change doesn’t happen.
More recent and ongoing is Korea. Should South Korea not fought a civil war and just rolled over to Kim’s grand dad? Twain is in civil war too with China, one that stretches back to pre ww2.
Civil wars are almost always for good. Not to say the deaths and violence are but they are unfortunately needed in such situations where one side doesn’t care about the others voices and will.
Forgot about the balks civil war where one side was doing genocide cause they wanted the other to do what they say.
Wars aren’t always bad. To say anyone who resorts to war is bad is naive.
The plantation oligarchs who had started the American Civil War hardly were fighting to end slavery. In fact, their motives were the exact opposite.
Are you saying the Union didn’t fight to end slavery cause in past you say they did?
If the union took the civil wars are bad policy they’d left the south to leave and not sought a civil war to bring them back.
Taiwan wouldn’t keep fighting for freedom and South Korea would surrendered without firing a shot.
Yes, the Union did free the slaves. But it was the Confederacy that had started the war. That was my point.
Nope union started it by refusing to accept the southern states left and that confederate states existed. And by your logic they should have ask acknowledged them as a nation and pulled all their troops out , cause civil wars are bad.
The confederates opened fire on Fort Sumter, which made the conflict go from a political disagreement to a war - although one could fairly state that the war started when numerous traitor states declared their intentions to secede to protect the institution of slavery (as was explicitly noted in many of the letters of secession). Don't fall for Lost Cause revisionist history - the traitors have been trying to rewrite the history of the War of Southern Treachery since they lost it.
How come nobody ever acknowledges the fact that the yankee doodle Americans commited treason against the British Empire during the American Revolution? I guess it was ok for the original 13 colonies to be traitors but wrong for the south for one reason only: they won and we lost.
And before you get so rightous about the slavery thing, don't ever forget that the Union was guilty of commiting genocide and oppression against the indigenous people here - both before and long after the Civil War.
First time I’ll agree with you. History is written by victors. If we’d lost Britain would have hung all the founders, and we as a colony would been severely punished. The lost cause today would be American independence and people would be making fun of those who still dreamed we’d won the revolution which would been called the treasonous uprising in that time line. I don’t see the civil war as slavery or anti slavery (it wasn’t even about slavery for the north until halfway as a way to get English support taken away, it was a war to save the union not end slavery, Lincoln was clear about that) but as a military conflict. If you look purely at that aspect then the north started it. But that doesn’t fit in with the union could do no wrong they were the pure good guys. Ignore how the whole north’s industry relied on slavery too and how most didn’t want blacks people being equal or living near them. The whole USA ran on slavery. North needed cheap resources to make products cheap to sell to Europe. It’s very similar today how Asian workers work near slavery with crap pay, locked in factories and kill themselves so they can get cheap products for the west. We are responsible for thwt just as the north was for slavery. If there wasn’t a demand the south’s economy would collapsed and slaves would been freed to save cost. The north was big part of slave economy and non of those union big wigs cared about slaves being free. That’s why it was so hard for Lincoln to free the slaves. Even in his party there was heavy opposition. I was taught real history which isn’t black and white but a dark dirty grey.
The war was about slavery. The Confederate leadership stated in historic documents how they were fighting to preserve the institution of slavery, based on white supremacy. Years after the war, ex-Confederate general, Mosby, when hearing about revisionism already in the works about "states rights," made it clear that it had always been about slavery and nothing else.
Standard ignore what person said and double down.
talking to you is pointlessThat doesn't make what I posted any less right.
29 Oct 2019, 7:01 pm
29 Oct 2019, 7:02 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,241
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2019, 7:03 pm
29 Oct 2019, 7:05 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,241
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2019, 7:10 pm
29 Oct 2019, 7:12 pm
29 Oct 2019, 7:18 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
I have nothing against Southern people at all.
I've met lots of Southern people; I tend to like them.
Some of them have been professors at my college.
The South is part of the United States of America---and has been, unequivocally, since 1865.
I've met lots of Southern people; I tend to like them.
Some of them have been professors at my college.
The South is part of the United States of America---and has been, unequivocally, since 1865.
I know kraftie, I know you don't hate the south and not everyone hates the south. But don't you agree that television has often mocked us? I mean it's pretty much an accepted stereotype that we southerners are illiterate and racist.
I think of Seth MacFarlane, the creator of shows like Family Guy, who makes insulting comments like "America is great, except for the south!" Or movies like The Texas Chainsaw Massaccere and Deliverance which portray us as these unhuman inbred monsters murdering and raping innocent urbanites.
I also think of Grace from Will & Grace telling an Iranian woman "I would never make fun of any accent! Except southern accents. I don't care if you're from the south and are a rocket scientist you still sound stupid."
I had a teacher from New Jersey I've mentioned before who made it very well known to her class that she hated the south.
My sister once had a friend from Boston who said "Wow I've never seen a hillbilly before!' When she met me (I am NOT a hillbilly!).
I've also been called "Forrest Gump" as an insult by people.
I mean, one can only take being joked about and made to feel ashamed of the region they were born in for so long before it starts to take its tow on you.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,241
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2019, 7:21 pm
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