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kraftiekortie
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30 Oct 2019, 10:05 am

Not so extreme as that----but people who were espousing the "germ theory" circa 1865 were scorned and ostracized.



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 5:20 pm

Bravo5150 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
But you know something? I don't believe everyone who fought in the Civil War was doing it over slavery or preserving our precious Union or whatever. I think some of those men were fighting simply because they were violent psychopaths looking for an excuse to kill people. Just like every war fought in the history of humankind. War is the perfect excuse to partake in mass murder and maybe a little rape and torture too.


If it was all about violent psychopaths looking fora reason to kill, why don we pull all military forces out of the middle East and instead send in force made of mass murderers, cannibals, etc who would otherwise be doing life in prison. That way they can have fun serving their sentence and give more soldiers time with their families?


What would entitle us to dump our criminals on another society to brutalize? Among things, soldiers have objectives to accomplish, their violence isn't simply for the sake of violence, it's to accomplish those objectives. How could dumping a bunch of murderers on them help accomplish any useful objective in any way?


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Bravo5150
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30 Oct 2019, 5:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
But you know something? I don't believe everyone who fought in the Civil War was doing it over slavery or preserving our precious Union or whatever. I think some of those men were fighting simply because they were violent psychopaths looking for an excuse to kill people. Just like every war fought in the history of humankind. War is the perfect excuse to partake in mass murder and maybe a little rape and torture too.


If it was all about violent psychopaths looking fora reason to kill, why don we pull all military forces out of the middle East and instead send in force made of mass murderers, cannibals, etc who would otherwise be doing life in prison. That way they can have fun serving their sentence and give more soldiers time with their families?


What would entitle us to dump our criminals on another society to brutalize? Among things, soldiers have objectives to accomplish, their violence isn't simply for the sake of violence, it's to accomplish those objectives. How could dumping a bunch of murderers on them help accomplish any useful objective in any way?


I was being sarcastic about the idea that most soldiers were violent psychopaths.



TW1ZTY
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30 Oct 2019, 5:29 pm

Not that I support giving leverage to murderers, but how exactly do you think people win these wars? War is nothing but a form of mass murder no matter how the victors try to justify it.



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 5:31 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Quote:
It was worse for the slaves...but it wasn’t a walk in the park for the poor white folks, either.

It’s good to have perspective....but it’s bad not to acknowledge that others suffered under the slave system in the South.


Some people don't give a s**t because there really is a prejudice towards both the white people from the south and the Germans because of the terrible things they did in the past, and cyberdad has proved my point about that although I'm sure he'll deny it.

I find it disturbing that anybody would actually think it's ok to slaughter women and children during times of war.


One can object to it but still recognize that brutalizing civilian populations has been a common tactic up until very recently. Civilians on both sides of the US Civil War were brutalized, why focus on the southern civilians suffering? Given how important slavery was to the southern economy, outside of a few areas like Appalachia, everyone bore guilt for slavery because they all benefited from it. It's perfectly fine to make a blanket condemnation of the way wars were fought at the time, but why focus on the civilians of the aggressor/traitor government?

I'm not sure why not giving those people special treatment compared to other victims of war at the time somehow makes Cyberdad especially hostile against those people. They don't deserve to have the value of their lives and well-being elevated above all other people alive at that time.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 5:31 pm

Bravo5150 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
But you know something? I don't believe everyone who fought in the Civil War was doing it over slavery or preserving our precious Union or whatever. I think some of those men were fighting simply because they were violent psychopaths looking for an excuse to kill people. Just like every war fought in the history of humankind. War is the perfect excuse to partake in mass murder and maybe a little rape and torture too.


If it was all about violent psychopaths looking fora reason to kill, why don we pull all military forces out of the middle East and instead send in force made of mass murderers, cannibals, etc who would otherwise be doing life in prison. That way they can have fun serving their sentence and give more soldiers time with their families?


What would entitle us to dump our criminals on another society to brutalize? Among things, soldiers have objectives to accomplish, their violence isn't simply for the sake of violence, it's to accomplish those objectives. How could dumping a bunch of murderers on them help accomplish any useful objective in any way?


I was being sarcastic about the idea that most soldiers were violent psychopaths.


Just making sure. :nerdy:


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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30 Oct 2019, 5:33 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Quote:
It was worse for the slaves...but it wasn’t a walk in the park for the poor white folks, either.

It’s good to have perspective....but it’s bad not to acknowledge that others suffered under the slave system in the South.


Some people don't give a s**t because there really is a prejudice towards both the white people from the south and the Germans because of the terrible things they did in the past, and cyberdad has proved my point about that although I'm sure he'll deny it.

I find it disturbing that anybody would actually think it's ok to slaughter women and children during times of war.


One can object to it but still recognize that brutalizing civilian populations has been a common tactic up until very recently. Civilians on both sides of the US Civil War were brutalized, why focus on the southern civilians suffering? Given how important slavery was to the southern economy, outside of a few areas like Appalachia, everyone bore guilt for slavery because they all benefited from it. It's perfectly fine to make a blanket condemnation of the way wars were fought at the time, but why focus on the civilians of the aggressor/traitor government?

I'm not sure why not giving those people special treatment compared to other victims of war at the time somehow makes Cyberdad especially hostile against those people. They don't deserve to have the value of their lives and well-being elevated above all other people alive at that time.


Exactly what northern civies of the war were brutalized other than the morons who decided to have a picnic while watching the first battle?



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30 Oct 2019, 5:37 pm

The South suffered the most from the war. Any northern civilian casualities were very meager in comparison because the north was invading us.



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 5:42 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Quote:
It was worse for the slaves...but it wasn’t a walk in the park for the poor white folks, either.

It’s good to have perspective....but it’s bad not to acknowledge that others suffered under the slave system in the South.


Some people don't give a s**t because there really is a prejudice towards both the white people from the south and the Germans because of the terrible things they did in the past, and cyberdad has proved my point about that although I'm sure he'll deny it.

I find it disturbing that anybody would actually think it's ok to slaughter women and children during times of war.


One can object to it but still recognize that brutalizing civilian populations has been a common tactic up until very recently. Civilians on both sides of the US Civil War were brutalized, why focus on the southern civilians suffering? Given how important slavery was to the southern economy, outside of a few areas like Appalachia, everyone bore guilt for slavery because they all benefited from it. It's perfectly fine to make a blanket condemnation of the way wars were fought at the time, but why focus on the civilians of the aggressor/traitor government?

I'm not sure why not giving those people special treatment compared to other victims of war at the time somehow makes Cyberdad especially hostile against those people. They don't deserve to have the value of their lives and well-being elevated above all other people alive at that time.


Exactly what northern civies of the war were brutalized other than the morons who decided to have a picnic while watching the first battle?


TW1ZTY wrote:
The South suffered the most from the war. Any northern civilian casualities were very meager in comparison because the north was invading us.



You're not familiar with 'Bleeding Kansas'?

Of course the south suffered more, they initiated hostilities with the north and lost. Generally the loser gets the worst of things, that's why they're the loser. They've spent the last 154 years attempting to portray themselves as the victims of the War of Southern Treachery, it wasn't true then and it's still just Lost Cause nonsense today.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TW1ZTY
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30 Oct 2019, 5:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Quote:
It was worse for the slaves...but it wasn’t a walk in the park for the poor white folks, either.

It’s good to have perspective....but it’s bad not to acknowledge that others suffered under the slave system in the South.


Some people don't give a s**t because there really is a prejudice towards both the white people from the south and the Germans because of the terrible things they did in the past, and cyberdad has proved my point about that although I'm sure he'll deny it.

I find it disturbing that anybody would actually think it's ok to slaughter women and children during times of war.


One can object to it but still recognize that brutalizing civilian populations has been a common tactic up until very recently. Civilians on both sides of the US Civil War were brutalized, why focus on the southern civilians suffering? Given how important slavery was to the southern economy, outside of a few areas like Appalachia, everyone bore guilt for slavery because they all benefited from it. It's perfectly fine to make a blanket condemnation of the way wars were fought at the time, but why focus on the civilians of the aggressor/traitor government?

I'm not sure why not giving those people special treatment compared to other victims of war at the time somehow makes Cyberdad especially hostile against those people. They don't deserve to have the value of their lives and well-being elevated above all other people alive at that time.


Exactly what northern civies of the war were brutalized other than the morons who decided to have a picnic while watching the first battle?


TW1ZTY wrote:
The South suffered the most from the war. Any northern civilian casualities were very meager in comparison because the north was invading us.



You're not familiar with 'Bleeding Kansas'?

Of course the south suffered more, they initiated hostilities with the north and lost. Generally the loser gets the worst of things, that's why they're the loser. They've spent the last 154 years attempting to portray themselves as the victims of the War of Southern Treachery, it wasn't true then and it's still just Lost Cause nonsense today.


Whatever, I'm sure if it was your home being burned to the ground and your family was left to starve to death while you were imprisoned in some disease-infested hell hole you would be singing a different tune. :roll:



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 5:54 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Quote:
It was worse for the slaves...but it wasn’t a walk in the park for the poor white folks, either.

It’s good to have perspective....but it’s bad not to acknowledge that others suffered under the slave system in the South.


Some people don't give a s**t because there really is a prejudice towards both the white people from the south and the Germans because of the terrible things they did in the past, and cyberdad has proved my point about that although I'm sure he'll deny it.

I find it disturbing that anybody would actually think it's ok to slaughter women and children during times of war.


One can object to it but still recognize that brutalizing civilian populations has been a common tactic up until very recently. Civilians on both sides of the US Civil War were brutalized, why focus on the southern civilians suffering? Given how important slavery was to the southern economy, outside of a few areas like Appalachia, everyone bore guilt for slavery because they all benefited from it. It's perfectly fine to make a blanket condemnation of the way wars were fought at the time, but why focus on the civilians of the aggressor/traitor government?

I'm not sure why not giving those people special treatment compared to other victims of war at the time somehow makes Cyberdad especially hostile against those people. They don't deserve to have the value of their lives and well-being elevated above all other people alive at that time.


Exactly what northern civies of the war were brutalized other than the morons who decided to have a picnic while watching the first battle?


TW1ZTY wrote:
The South suffered the most from the war. Any northern civilian casualities were very meager in comparison because the north was invading us.



You're not familiar with 'Bleeding Kansas'?

Of course the south suffered more, they initiated hostilities with the north and lost. Generally the loser gets the worst of things, that's why they're the loser. They've spent the last 154 years attempting to portray themselves as the victims of the War of Southern Treachery, it wasn't true then and it's still just Lost Cause nonsense today.


Whatever, I'm sure if it was your home being burned to the ground and your family was left to starve to death while you were imprisoned in some disease-infested hell hole you would be singing a different tune. :roll:


I'll take that as you conceding there's absolutely no legitimate reason to be more invested in the sufferings of the white southerners who fought against America than any other group of people who had to deal with war in the 1800s, notwithstanding your personal connection to those folks vs. all the others.

You can spare the snark, it's not helping you make your point.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TW1ZTY
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30 Oct 2019, 5:58 pm

You know something? North and South is exactly like East and West. We are non-compatible. Sorry.



funeralxempire
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30 Oct 2019, 6:03 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something? North and South is exactly like East and West. We are non-compatible. Sorry.


While that may or may not be true, it fails to address why one should be more concerned about what southern civilians went through in the war of southern treachery, compared to what any other civilians went through during other contemporary conflicts. War in that era was horrible, perhaps they should have abandoned slavery voluntarily while they had the chance.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


TW1ZTY
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30 Oct 2019, 6:12 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something? North and South is exactly like East and West. We are non-compatible. Sorry.


While that may or may not be true, it fails to address why one should be more concerned about what southern civilians went through in the war of southern treachery, compared to what any other civilians went through during other contemporary conflicts. War in that era was horrible, perhaps they should have abandoned slavery voluntarily while they had the chance.


Yeah, clearly it is true. Our arguing is proof of that.

If I were in control I would have abolished slavery and successfully succeeded the south from this stupid BS country known as the good ol' USA. I'm sure that would have made everyone happy. :roll:



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30 Oct 2019, 6:24 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
You know something? North and South is exactly like East and West. We are non-compatible. Sorry.


While that may or may not be true, it fails to address why one should be more concerned about what southern civilians went through in the war of southern treachery, compared to what any other civilians went through during other contemporary conflicts. War in that era was horrible, perhaps they should have abandoned slavery voluntarily while they had the chance.


Yeah, clearly it is true. Our arguing is proof of that.

If I were in control I would have abolished slavery and successfully succeeded the south from this stupid BS country known as the good ol' USA. I'm sure that would have made everyone happy. :roll:


I'm not from the north, so I'm not sure how us debating this is proof of more than that we disagree on this matter.

The south chose secession and conflict with the north to protect the institution of slavery and as things turned out, they made the wrong bet. Considering what they fought for, they're not exactly a sympathetic cause.

That said, the suffering of civilians is never something to celebrate, no matter how reprehensible their cause and no matter whether other choices could have prevented that outcome. I don't believe their suffering matters more than any other civilians in any other conflict during the period, but that doesn't mean that I feel their suffering matters any less than any other civilians in any other conflict during the period either.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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30 Oct 2019, 6:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

I'm not from the north, so I'm not sure how us debating this is proof of more than that we disagree on this matter.


You're Canadian! That's as far north as it gets on this continent! :P