In Portland: Get vaccinated or get fired

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DW_a_mom
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03 Sep 2021, 5:00 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Mr Reynholm wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Mr Reynholm wrote:

envirozentinel wrote:

If only the vaccine did away with the possibility of transmission altogether, and meant an end to needing masks and distancing, then I'd be happier. But it seems like they're not at the point yet that the vaccine is a true preventative measure.

Why does the government not encourage health weight, diet, exercise, vitamins, fresh air and sunlight to help persons own immune system combat the virus rather than pushing the vaccine as the only treatment?
This entire thing is not about a virus.

For heavens sake, the government DOES encourage healthy weight, diet, etc as having been proven to prolong life. But these types of measures are a public relationships campaign, not something you can draw a line under and legislate, and conservatives generally push to limit the budget on public health PR campaigns. Nor do conservatives like universal healthcare programs. So they throw around these co-morbid factors while throwing roadblocks against the best ways to reduce their co-morbidity.

Nor does everyone who dies from COVID-19 have a co-morbid factor. In fact, healthcare professionals have been stunned at how unpredictable the disease can be. How perfectly healthy young people can die, while an ailing 90 year old lives. When your loved one falls outside of your co-morbidity pattern and dies, will you still want to play the "what about" game? The pandemic isn't about the co-morbid patterns, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall death and debilitation rate of the disease.

I've already said I'm uncomfortable with this vaccinate or be fired trend, but I'm even less comfortable with the kinds of arguments you are making. People need to care about other people and not make excuses.

If the government can mandate a vaccine they can mandate anything. Once your bodily autonomy is gone they own YOU.

They aren't mandating a vaccine. They are listing the vaccine as a condition of unemployment. It falls into the same realm of laws as employers demanding you take a drug test for employment, or a school requiring you to follow a dress code. In other words, the same legal interpretations established to allow a lot of conservative priorities will now allow an employer to require vaccination, as long as there is a reasonable waiver policy in place.

I will note that I'm consistent: I don't like employer drug tests unless they can prove with science that being drug free is essential to safely doing the specific job the person is hired for. Similar with dress codes: it should make sense.

You guys on the left are all for authoritarianism when its Your side making the rules.

I think that *I* am showing clear consistency. Explain to me where *I* am not. Of course, any statement that starts with “you guys” or “you people” is invariably empty or useless.

Not to mention, you seem to misunderstand what authoritarianism is. Authoritarianism comes from government and/or political leaders. Instead, I took the time to point out the legal distinction between what employers can do as employers, and what government can do with respect to the populace. In the situation debated in this post, Portland is acting as an employer. Do I like that employers have such latitude under our laws? No, as I’ve already explained. I’m uncomfortable with anyone (including politicians) having it.

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kraftiekortie
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03 Sep 2021, 6:32 pm

I wish the vaccines WERE better at preventing the transmission of COVID, and better at preventing one from getting COVID.

Then, there would be no doubt that having the vaccine is a matter of public health, rather than politics. Vaccine mandates wouldn't be seen as being violations of liberty.

We didn't have to have "vaccine mandates" and "mask mandates" back in the 1950s, when the polio vaccine came out. People just took the vaccine without protest, and polio was virtually eradicated in the United States by the late 60s (the oral polio vaccine, developed by Sabin around 1962, was even more effective than the injected vaccine developed by Salk around 1955).

Kraichgauer
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03 Sep 2021, 7:49 pm

Good! Let's do this nationally, next.

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goldfish21
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04 Sep 2021, 12:46 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Unfortunately the USA had extremely poor leadership going into the pandemic and that misinformation spewed by the ex-president and his ilk is still reeking havoc today. :/

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Axeman
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04 Sep 2021, 6:04 am

goldfish21 wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Unfortunately the USA had extremely poor leadership going into the pandemic and that misinformation spewed by the ex-president and his ilk is still reeking havoc today. :/

Agreed. Trump didn't understand covid so he had no plan to deal with it.

envirozentinel
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04 Sep 2021, 6:34 am

Few among us can really claim to understand Covid. For instance why so many young healthy folk with no comorbidities don't survive it, yet people in old age with various health problems often recover.

If we could only do a scientific health profile on each individual to determine beforehand how their immune system will handle it.

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Axeman
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04 Sep 2021, 7:13 am

envirozentinel wrote:

The US would have been better off with the Marx Brothers as President...

kraftiekortie
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04 Sep 2021, 7:16 am

It kills too many healthy people……but it still kills way more health-vulnerable people by percentage than healthy people.

COVID is like polio. 80% of people getting polio only got a mild illness, just like COVID. No one knew why.

20% of sufferers got a more severe illness; that’s still many people.

The mortality rate for COVID is low—but it is 5 times more lethal than “regular” flu. Hence, the high amount of excess deaths.

envirozentinel
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04 Sep 2021, 7:57 am

Axeman wrote:

envirozentinel wrote:

The US would have been better off with the Marx Brothers as President...

Hehe which one? :lol:

I didn't realize that about polio. So a good many people got infected with it but a mild dose?

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Axeman
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04 Sep 2021, 8:06 am

envirozentinel wrote:

Axeman wrote:

envirozentinel wrote:

The US would have been better off with the Marx Brothers as President...

Hehe which one? :lol:

I didn't realize that about polio. So a good many people got infected with it but a mild dose?

Take your pick.

Yes. The push to eradicate it was because FDR got it.

kraftiekortie
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04 Sep 2021, 8:28 am

Polio was serious in about 20% of cases. But that 20% got some degree of paralysis, or had to be put in an iron lung. Worse than severe COVID in many cases.

Axeman
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04 Sep 2021, 8:57 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Polio was serious in about 20% of cases. But that 20% got some degree of paralysis, or had to be put in an iron lung. Worse than severe COVID in many cases.

I would rather be dead then living in an iron lung.

League_Girl
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04 Sep 2021, 11:31 am

I wonder if anyone had a issue with getting polio vaccines back then and for measles too. Now we have the chicken pox vaccine so my kids have never gotten it.

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ASPartOfMe
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04 Sep 2021, 11:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

We didn't have to have "vaccine mandates" and "mask mandates" back in the 1950s, when the polio vaccine came out. People just took the vaccine without protest, and polio was virtually eradicated in the United States by the late 60s (the oral polio vaccine, developed by Sabin around 1962, was even more effective than the injected vaccine developed by Salk around 1955).

And this despite that right after the vaccine became available Cutter laboratories accidentally sending out 120,000 vaccines with the live virus. Between those that got bad shot and others they spread polio to 40,000 got sick, 169 got paralyzed and 5 children died. Some people got fired, some sued, vaccination was suspended for a week or so and that was that. Imagine if that happened today.

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kraftiekortie
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04 Sep 2021, 1:02 pm

There was never much of an issue with getting any vaccine other than the COVID vaccine.

There were always anti-vaxxers….but they were very much a fringe element.

If everybody got the COVID vaccine like what occurred with the other vaccines, we wouldn’t have much of a problem with breakthrough cases, or with variants floating around.

Texasmoneyman300
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05 Sep 2021, 5:32 am

Tim_Tex wrote:

The entire country needs to follow Portland's lead.

I totally agree.

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