Russians Divided Over Invasion of Ukraine

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cyberdad
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26 Feb 2022, 7:16 pm

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Putin wants to be the leader of a “Great Russia.” He believes Ukrainians are Russians, basically. And Belarusians, too.

He doesn’t care what the Ukrainians think. He doesn’t care about destroying the whole country in the process.

He has the mind of a dictator…..and of most medieval kings.


Putin operates from a position of strength. He is labelled narcissistic and self-absorbed but he's no fool (if you like he;s no Trump). You don't run an agency like the KGB based on hunches or risks. He's a calculating fellow.

He runs Russia with an iron fist. He controls the oligarchs (indeed he's the biggest one) who also run the Russian mafia with its international tentacles.

As with China's Xi Jinping he's a strongman and unless there is an internal revolution he can't be dislodged externally.

Medieval kings didn't have national security agencies, bots or nuclear weapons.


Who on earth thinks pootin is a fool? :scratch:
Most psychopaths are intelligent people preying on the weakness of other simpler people. 8)


Kraftie is suggesting he doesn't care about what he does in Ukraine. I think everything he is doing is strategic. He waited till the west has been racked by COVID for 2 years and preoccupied with rebuilding before launching this attack. His timing was strategic.



chornedsnorkack
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26 Feb 2022, 8:42 pm

Pepe wrote:
Who on earth thinks pootin is a fool? :scratch:
Most psychopaths are intelligent people preying on the weakness of other simpler people. 8)

Like the people who observe how poorly equipped Russian soldiers are and how Putin apparently did not provide for the length of the campaign and strength of resistance. As well as the massive objections of Russian people... which did not happen to Chechen war itself (only losses there) or to Georgian war.



Pepe
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26 Feb 2022, 8:54 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Putin wants to be the leader of a “Great Russia.” He believes Ukrainians are Russians, basically. And Belarusians, too.

He doesn’t care what the Ukrainians think. He doesn’t care about destroying the whole country in the process.

He has the mind of a dictator…..and of most medieval kings.


Putin operates from a position of strength. He is labelled narcissistic and self-absorbed but he's no fool (if you like he;s no Trump). You don't run an agency like the KGB based on hunches or risks. He's a calculating fellow.

He runs Russia with an iron fist. He controls the oligarchs (indeed he's the biggest one) who also run the Russian mafia with its international tentacles.

As with China's Xi Jinping he's a strongman and unless there is an internal revolution he can't be dislodged externally.

Medieval kings didn't have national security agencies, bots or nuclear weapons.


Who on earth thinks pootin is a fool? :scratch:
Most psychopaths are intelligent people preying on the weakness of other simpler people. 8)


Kraftie is suggesting he doesn't care about what he does in Ukraine. I think everything he is doing is strategic. He waited till the west has been racked by COVID for 2 years and preoccupied with rebuilding before launching this attack. His timing was strategic.


No argument there.
The country which gave us the virus is doing the same.



Pepe
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26 Feb 2022, 8:59 pm

chornedsnorkack wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Who on earth thinks pootin is a fool? :scratch:
Most psychopaths are intelligent people preying on the weakness of other simpler people. 8)

Like the people who observe how poorly equipped Russian soldiers are and how Putin apparently did not provide for the length of the campaign and strength of resistance. As well as the massive objections of Russian people... which did not happen to Chechen war itself (only losses there) or to Georgian war.


He didn't consider the strength of the Ukrainian resolve, but he was correct that no other nation would put soldiers on the ground.
While it is correct that there were some Russian people who protested against pootin's move on Ukraine, there isn't a huge amount who have a major problem.

I hope the sanctions are biting pootin on the bum, even though china is helping to mitigate the effect.



magz
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27 Feb 2022, 1:47 am

A calculating and super smart man can get worse on his mental health - which can still leave his ability to calculate but hinder his ability to get feedback from reality.

I didn't follow this topic closely myself but some Polish commenter I read claims it happened to Putin some three years ago.

Which, if true, would have made him even more dangerous.


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naturalplastic
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27 Feb 2022, 2:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Putin wants to be the leader of a “Great Russia.” He believes Ukrainians are Russians, basically. And Belarusians, too.

He doesn’t care what the Ukrainians think. He doesn’t care about destroying the whole country in the process.

He has the mind of a dictator…..and of most medieval kings.


Putin operates from a position of strength. He is labelled narcissistic and self-absorbed but he's no fool (if you like he;s no Trump). You don't run an agency like the KGB based on hunches or risks. He's a calculating fellow.

He runs Russia with an iron fist. He controls the oligarchs (indeed he's the biggest one) who also run the Russian mafia with its international tentacles.

As with China's Xi Jinping he's a strongman and unless there is an internal revolution he can't be dislodged externally.

Medieval kings didn't have national security agencies, bots or nuclear weapons.


Who on earth thinks pootin is a fool? :scratch:
Most psychopaths are intelligent people preying on the weakness of other simpler people. 8)


Kraftie is suggesting he doesn't care about what he does in Ukraine. I think everything he is doing is strategic. He waited till the west has been racked by COVID for 2 years and preoccupied with rebuilding before launching this attack. His timing was strategic.


The Russian Republic was hit just as hard as any other country by Covid. So that theory doesnt make any sense. Russia is just as preoccupied with "rebuilding" as everyone else is.

However you could be on to something about his timing-having to do with Covid. There are reasons not to launch an invasion during a world pandemic.

War (like a biker rally) would be a "super spreader event". The Spanish Flu of 1919 was the result of the troop movements around the world in World War One. So its not inconceivable that Putin postponed the war until now thinking that the epidemic has subsided enough to now stage super spreader events-like sending invading armies across the border. He wouldnt want his armies getting covid, nor have his armies spreading it back into the Russian civilian population.

So its not because everyone else is weakened by covid, but because he thinks his own side wont get devastated by the virus now. Or he thinks that it wont. Like our own politicians who want to drop mask mandates now he maybe being a bit too optimistic, and premature. He shoulda waited longer IMHO- if the virus factored in his decision- to start his war.



cyberdad
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27 Feb 2022, 2:33 am

Ok no need to get carried away, it's one of many factors influencing Putin's decision.

The general consensus is he manufactured a pretext but there are various reasons, After 2014 the current Ukrainian government has made overtures to the US and NATO. The invasion was sparked by the current Ukrainian government inviting American and NATO forces to conduct joint exercises and engage in other military cooperation to boost Ukraine’s defensive capabilities against Russia.

My guess is this was pivotal to Putin's decision given the eastern provinces and Crimea would have been under threat from Ukrainian nationalists who wanted these "independent" regions back from Russian backed control.