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Trump Takes First Strike Against Abortion

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Misslizard
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31 Jan 2017, 10:08 am

It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.


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Jacoby
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31 Jan 2017, 10:49 am

Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.


Aktion T4 was done in the name of 'effiency', some thought it as even the compassionate thing to do believe it or not.



Raptor
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31 Jan 2017, 12:20 pm

Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?


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Misslizard
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31 Jan 2017, 12:28 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.


Aktion T4 was done in the name of 'effiency', some thought it as even the compassionate thing to do believe it or not.

That was involuntary,no choice in the matter.Abortion is a choice.
Some conserves don't like the tax payer fronting the bill.So my counterpoint was that it's a lot cheaper in the long run.


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Misslizard
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31 Jan 2017, 12:30 pm

Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?

Where did I saw it was carved in stone? I pointed out a fact,cheaper in the long haul.


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diablo
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31 Jan 2017, 2:07 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
For crying out loud, people. Casually getting an abortion sounds pathological to me, and I have never met someone who casually got an abortion. It's kind of a desperate choice, that would have become more so if women did not have access to safe and legal abortions. If it was illegal, it's a statistical certainty that one of my friends would be dead. Desperate people make desperate choices.


Women's bodies can naturally abort if their bodies detect an abnormality with the embryo cells.

Also there are at home abortion methods such as taking in a lot of vitamin c which raises the body temperature to where the embryo cannot gestate.

A failed fetus can lead to chimerism where the dna left behind can find itself absorbed into a separate fetus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_twin
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-me ... born-twin/

My point being that abortion isn't a black and white issue.


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Raptor
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31 Jan 2017, 2:11 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?

Where did I saw it was carved in stone? I pointed out a fact,cheaper in the long haul.

Both will be cheap if we don't pay for them. What did people do before Uncle Sugar started paying for everything?


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diablo
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31 Jan 2017, 2:15 pm

Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.


Government funded birth control which works out for both sides.

http://economicalmillennial.com/giving-access-to-free-and-low-cost-birth-control-saves-the-u-s-government-at-least-17-billion-a-year/


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Sweetleaf
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31 Jan 2017, 3:49 pm

Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:

So double up on the contraceptives.


The point is should the contraceptives fail, the responsible thing for a couple who has decided not to have children...is to get an abortion asap. There is no 100% contraceptive method, there is always a chance it can fail and an abortion will be needed. Also not sure you even understand how contraceptives work with your 'just double them up' comment.

Yeah, I have no idea how contraceptives work. :roll:
Looks like you don't either....

Quote:
Why do are you so hellbent on ensuring unwanted pregnancies go to term, you looking to adopt or pay for unwanted kids?

Show me where I said this please. My point, as stated before, is that I don't want John Q. Taxpayer to have to foot the bill for it. Don't look for that to change with me and I could easy become a full fledged pro-life wacko.



Yes what about people on medicaid due to poverty or receiving disability income?


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31 Jan 2017, 4:20 pm

Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?


Well than what do you propose happens to these children once they are born, when one is forced to make the irresponsible choice of having a baby rather than the early term abortions we have the technology for?


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Sweetleaf
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31 Jan 2017, 4:22 pm

Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?

Where did I saw it was carved in stone? I pointed out a fact,cheaper in the long haul.

Both will be cheap if we don't pay for them. What did people do before Uncle Sugar started paying for everything?


Not sure who said anything about taxes paying for 'everything' or anything like that, we're talking about access to a medical procedure for everyone regardless of financial standing. Do you oppose things like medicaid, ebt and heat assistance for the poor as well, beings those are tax funded?


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Raptor
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31 Jan 2017, 4:55 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?

Where did I saw it was carved in stone? I pointed out a fact,cheaper in the long haul.

Both will be cheap if we don't pay for them. What did people do before Uncle Sugar started paying for everything?


Do you oppose things like medicaid, ebt and heat assistance for the poor as well, beings those are tax funded?

Now you're catchin' on...
:wtg:


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jrjones9933
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31 Jan 2017, 5:18 pm

Okay, Raptor, but is it really over half the country willing to take such a heartless attitude? Realistically, we will wait until the last moment, when it becomes the most expensive to fix the situation. It didn't work when we made Emergency Rooms the first stop for poor people to get healthcare, and it won't work here.

I appreciate people taking an unpopular principled stand on an extreme and logically consistent position. But plans need to anticipate the behavior of actual humans, not imaginary humans who suddenly start to act right.


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Misslizard
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31 Jan 2017, 7:07 pm

Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?

Where did I saw it was carved in stone? I pointed out a fact,cheaper in the long haul.

Both will be cheap if we don't pay for them. What did people do before Uncle Sugar started paying for everything?

I don't know what the men did but the women used a baby gouging stick and toxic herbs.


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diablo
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31 Jan 2017, 8:43 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
It's cheaper on the system.This isn't about morality,but finance.
State pays for an abortion for a woman who doesn't have the financial means to pay herself.
Or women has no choice.and goes full term delivers the baby.
Now the state has to pay for nine months maternity care,hospital,pediatrician and possibly eighteen years of food assistance and medical for the child.
Now which is more cost efficient in the long run.

Where is it carved in stone that we have to do either?

Where did I saw it was carved in stone? I pointed out a fact,cheaper in the long haul.

Both will be cheap if we don't pay for them. What did people do before Uncle Sugar started paying for everything?

I don't know what the men did but the women used a baby gouging stick and toxic herbs.



Pull out method?


Today all a guy needs is a fedora hat and an aspergers diagnosis. 100% effective birth control!


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Raptor
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31 Jan 2017, 9:33 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Okay, Raptor, but is it really over half the country willing to take such a heartless attitude? Realistically, we will wait until the last moment, when it becomes the most expensive to fix the situation. It didn't work when we made Emergency Rooms the first stop for poor people to get healthcare, and it won't work here.

I appreciate people taking an unpopular principled stand on an extreme and logically consistent position. But plans need to anticipate the behavior of actual humans, not imaginary humans who suddenly start to act right.


If not being generous with other people's (the taxpayers) money makes me heartless then feel free to call me heartless AND evil.
:twisted:


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