Neb. city votes to restrict illegal immigration

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MissConstrue
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22 Jun 2010, 2:13 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nebraska_immigration


FREMONT, Neb. – An eastern Nebraska city that approved a ban on hiring or renting property to illegal immigrants is likely to join Arizona at the center of the national debate about immigration regulations.

But an expected court challenge could keep the measure approved by 57 percent of Fremont voters on Monday from ever taking effect.

The American Civil Liberties Union already has vowed to file a lawsuit to block its enforcement.

Fremont City Councilman Scott Getzschman says it will be difficult and costly for the community of 25,000 people to take on the issue.

The city's Hispanic population has surged in the past two decades, largely due to the jobs at two nearby meatpacking plants.


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trojan51
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22 Jun 2010, 2:28 am

i agree with this law. illegal immigrants have no rights. if they want rights they can come through to this country legally like everyone else. i have nothin against immigrants as long as they are legal



John_Browning
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22 Jun 2010, 2:43 am

trojan51 wrote:
i agree with this law. illegal immigrants have no rights. if they want rights they can come through to this country legally like everyone else. i have nothin against immigrants as long as they are legal

Actually alien invaders have the right to remain silent, anything they say can be used against them in the court of law...............................................
:lol:


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22 Jun 2010, 2:54 am

And what status does the ACLU have in the matter of illegals? Non Americans? I think they will lose at the local level, and have to pay the costs for their baseless suit.

Then there are the hundreds of other towns and counties considering passing the same law.

The towns can also chose not to defend, and pass another law worded nearly the same.

"Thou shalt not rent to anyone without a credit report, Thou shall not employ anyone without a valid and E-Verfied Social Security number."

Go pick on someone your own size. Houston passed a law several years ago where the police can and do ask immigration status. The law is working out just fine.

States that do collect income tax, workman's comp, unemployment, do have a legal interest in employment. Hiring off the books illegals is the same as running a business and not paying the sales tax, it is theft from the State. A fine of $10,000 per day would be in order, plus closing the business and sending the owner to jail.

There are a hundred ways to go at it, but it comes down to only Citizens and legal aliens have any reason to be here.

While people threaten to go to Court, they do face having to pay if they lose. In the case of Hillery, who has no business in this, lose one case, and you lose them all.

Cities, Counties, and States are going to force this issue.



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22 Jun 2010, 4:18 am

trojan51 wrote:
i agree with this law. illegal immigrants have no rights. if they want rights they can come through to this country legally like everyone else. i have nothin against immigrants as long as they are legal


I disagree with the notion that illegal immigrants have no rights in this country. They are entitled to basic human rights afforded under the doctrines of this country.

Technically existing laws do prohibit illegal immigrants from obtaining certain services implicitly. The problems is the Federal and State governments have not implemented infrastructure to "unlock" these implications.

I think the largest objection to these new state and local laws being passed from latin American US citizens is based on the worry about being discriminated against and harassed by law enforcement officials, and I do believe that is a valid worry.

It's a little known fact but there are a number of Mexican Americans who were born in the 50's near the US/Mexican border, to Mexican American parents, who the US government has refused to recognize as US citizens because they were born at home and delivered by a mid-wife, and the authenticity of their American birth has been called into doubt decades later and the government has not accepted any of their attempts to prove their citizenship, which is usually in the form of witness statements and school records.

There are also Americans born abroad to American fathers who are being denied recognition of citizenship as the laws for children born to American fathers are more strict than the laws for children born to American mothers.

As for illegal immigrants and taxes, any illegal immigrant working at a corporate business or franchise pays at least some taxes on their earnings.

The issue in this situation is the illegal means through which they obtained a social security number.

A good deal of the illegal immigration problems could be solved if the US had a domestic work program which would allow poorer immigrants from neighboring countries to work legally in the US at jobs most Americans generally won't take.

The reason such a program has not been implemented is simple. Many of these jobs are "under the table" type jobs, and while politicians recognize that taxes are not being paid on this income, they also recognize the benefit on certain sectors of the economy, of employers being able to pay reduced wages and not offer benefits. It's the cheap labor that stems from illegal immigration that allows many of these businesses to stay in business, and while the workers might not pay taxes, the business do, so many politicians figure there is an overall benefit to treasury and the economy to keep this situation going.



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22 Jun 2010, 4:22 am

Chronos wrote:
A good deal of the illegal immigration problems could be solved if the US had a domestic work program which would allow poorer immigrants from neighboring countries to work legally in the US at jobs most Americans generally won't take.

The thing is that there aren't a whole lot of jobs that American's won't take right now. When a company gets busted hiring alien invaders, they get flooded with legal applicants.


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Chronos
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22 Jun 2010, 5:45 am

John_Browning wrote:
Chronos wrote:
A good deal of the illegal immigration problems could be solved if the US had a domestic work program which would allow poorer immigrants from neighboring countries to work legally in the US at jobs most Americans generally won't take.

The thing is that there aren't a whole lot of jobs that American's won't take right now. When a company gets busted hiring alien invaders, they get flooded with legal applicants.


Perhaps that's true in the retail sector, but not in the agriculture sector.

I used to live in an agricultural area and I can tell you very very few American citizens ever applied for most of the agricultural jobs. Not only that, but few Americans actually have the skills to work those jobs, and few American farmers can pay wages that Americans and the federal government demand, as they are working against the high cost of doing business in the US, and the low price for agricultural goods that large international food distributors like ConAgra are willing to pay.

There is also the issue of the fact that retail jobs suffer from high turn over rates which cost companies money. Most Americans get out of those jobs as soon as they can, but immigrants will usually stick around as long as they can.

My point is, it is not just a matter of the big bad illegal aliens destroying the country. That is an unfair and inaccurate point of view that a lot of people unfortunately harbor, probably due to internal prejudices. It is the negative in one group that always stands out to the other group the most.

The topic of illegal immigration, and the impacts and benefits, are far more complex than most people have the ability to, or willingness to take into account.



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22 Jun 2010, 12:48 pm

Because some business make more hiring under the table is not a good point, slavery would be justified by that logic.

If no one will take the job, perhaps the person is in the wrong business? Picking strawberries is often mentioned, "We have to transport thousands across the border at night, for a month long harvest?"

If they can be grown in Florida, they can be grown in Mexico, and berries can be trucked over the border as legal trade in the day.

Sugarcane and cotton were once thought crops that demanded slavery, but have automated and learned to get by without it.

A lot of this deprives the Mexican economy of jobs that could be better done in Mexico.

It also keeps prices so low that farmers who do not hire illegals can not make a living. Southern California has dominated produce with cheap labor, but they are running out of water, we would be better off with thousands of small farms supplying local markets, at prices that reflect a living wage in America.

The Amish are doing just fine.

Most immigration arrests are not from the fields, but from factories, and construction sites. We have a lot of people looking for those jobs.

In general, labor is a very small part of any product. Land, buildings, machines, raw materils, are 95% of costs, labor, 5%. So if an apple costs $0.01 more for paying a living wage to an American, we would pay the penny.

I have known people who did work the orchards, cherries, apples, and they chose it because it was outdoor seasonal work. The same for planting trees. Like the grape harvest in France, it was a long camping trip that paid well, and brought people out from the cities.

It was part of our culture. Not everyone is cut out for full time employment. The ones I knew traveled in groups, and could offer twenty hands to work tomorrow at dawn. They were booked for the season.

Any business may seem to work better if a lot of laws are broken, but long term, we have to have a deal between American labor, farms and factories, and consumers.

Illegal labor has driven down wages, put legal business out of business, and then raised prices to the consumer.

Like the Mafia moving in on a business, they do steal, kill, and drive everyone else out. Then prices rise to the consumer, and it becomes a base for other illegal actions, taking over Unions, Governments, garbage hauling, till nothing moves without them being paid off.

Illegal workers are a tool for corporate Agrabusiness to take over the food supply.

The Amish are doing well selling produce on a local basis. The family farm is a workable small business. Small producers running U-Pick farming are finding that thier crops are sold out to people who want to stock up on local fresh produce.

illegal workers and corporate farms damage our overall economy in many ways.

Food security is more important than oil security.

Employment security is most important, a level playing field in business, and an equal chance at developing a business of your own.

Most jobs are created by small business that hire one to five people.

Illegal workers disrupt the base of our job producing economy.

70% of our economy is consumers, employed consumers, and the more employed at higher wages is the defining issue.

The Domestic Economy is the single most important issue, it is the goose that lays golden eggs.



Chronos
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22 Jun 2010, 3:24 pm

Inventor wrote:
.

The Amish are doing well selling produce on a local basis. The family farm is a workable small business. Small producers running U-Pick farming are finding that thier crops are sold out to people who want to stock up on local fresh produce.



The Amish are doing well, as are the Hutterites, but the Amish do not have health insurance premiums, cell phone/telephone or internet bills, or gas or electric bills unless they need those utilities to run a business. Few Amish actually do own a business. Most of them work for an Amish business, and the work at wages well under that which could support an average American standard of living, and the only reason they are able to do this is because of working communal philosophies within their community, which only appear to work in small, close knit communities and not the population at large. They also get around a lot of expenses because many exchanges are under the table.

The Hutterites are more communal than the Amish, living on big collective farms, and do use modern day technology in their daily life. Members from each collective often trade work with other collectives, and these communities have been so successful that they have been greatly restricted in their ability to expand by the Canadian government as they were putting other farms and businesses who had to pay their employees living wages out of business.

This type of communism works because those who participate in it do so willingly and embrace the philosophies of their community. Not only may a Hutterite or Amish person leave their community, they could very easily be kicked out.

It is not conductive to maintaining whole countries of the size of the US.



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22 Jun 2010, 8:57 pm

Good for them. Better than being those joke "sanctuary cities" or the ones "boycotting" Arizona.



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23 Jun 2010, 12:43 am

The United States is a bit more diverse than the Amish, but it is still communial, made up of Citizens and legal aliens.

It works because we pay our taxes, and spend our income here. Illegals do not, they may have a fake Social Security number, much harder to do now with E-Verify, but they claim ten children, and send money to Mexico. For their next job they wil have a new name.

Many come here because they are being looked for by the Mexican Police.

llegals harm us all, and our economy. Those that hire them do also.

We have many in prison, and deport over a half million a year. We pay for their health care, and education.

In return they make money any way they can and send it out of the country.

Any way you look at it this is a loss for the United States.

Like it or not we are a group of 300,000,000 who live in a world of 6,000,000,000, and all we have is within our borders and our economy.

Like the Amish and Hutterites, there is a fence around our farm, and those who cross that fence without permission to take what is ours are called thieves.

The United States is the same, Our Nation, owned by the Citizens.

Only some people have a right to be here, work here, just like any other country.

The simple way to make things right is to not rent to or employ those who have no right to be here.

They may be poor, may be driven by many reasons, but they are commiting a crime.

The people who should be punished are the Citizens who hire them, a $10,000 per day fine would work wonders.

When there is no work, no place to live, they will return home, and others will not come.

We have mass unemployment, a run away National Debt, a stock market that is at 10,000, where it was a decade ago, when gold was $320, and China will soon be a larger manufacturer. We have deflation in real estate, and few buyers at those prices.

We have nothing to support this but our Domestic Economy.

A Nation is a group of Citizens with a common destiny.



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23 Jun 2010, 1:08 am

Chronos wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
Chronos wrote:
A good deal of the illegal immigration problems could be solved if the US had a domestic work program which would allow poorer immigrants from neighboring countries to work legally in the US at jobs most Americans generally won't take.

The thing is that there aren't a whole lot of jobs that American's won't take right now. When a company gets busted hiring alien invaders, they get flooded with legal applicants.


Perhaps that's true in the retail sector, but not in the agriculture sector.

I used to live in an agricultural area and I can tell you very very few American citizens ever applied for most of the agricultural jobs. Not only that, but few Americans actually have the skills to work those jobs, and few American farmers can pay wages that Americans and the federal government demand, as they are working against the high cost of doing business in the US, and the low price for agricultural goods that large international food distributors like ConAgra are willing to pay.

There is also the issue of the fact that retail jobs suffer from high turn over rates which cost companies money. Most Americans get out of those jobs as soon as they can, but immigrants will usually stick around as long as they can.

My point is, it is not just a matter of the big bad illegal aliens destroying the country. That is an unfair and inaccurate point of view that a lot of people unfortunately harbor, probably due to internal prejudices. It is the negative in one group that always stands out to the other group the most.

The topic of illegal immigration, and the impacts and benefits, are far more complex than most people have the ability to, or willingness to take into account.


The farmers should be asking engineers to create harvesting machines to boost their efficiency come harvest time.

But alas, asking coyotes is so much easier.


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23 Jun 2010, 1:21 am

Chronos wrote:
I disagree with the notion that illegal immigrants have no rights in this country. They are entitled to basic human rights afforded under the doctrines of this country.


They have NO rights except to be sent back where they came from.