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MotherKnowsBest
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23 Aug 2010, 6:07 pm

I must admit, I'd be a bit pissed off if my employer tried to push me into a side job to avoid discrimination issues. But on the other hand, I wouldn't want a job that clashed with my religious belief. But on the third hand :D , I live in a foreign country and know what it feels like to be expected to act like the locals in a way that is not normally acceptable in my own culture. But then again, she had worked there for 2 years and only just decided to cover her head, so being uncovered can't have been that objectionable to her.



Kuzlalala
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09 Feb 2011, 1:47 am

I think it's okay. It's not like people judge people based on appearance, right?



Macbeth
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09 Feb 2011, 7:08 am

This is another case of an epic level of WHO CARES?

Some Disney employees dress as GIANT MICE. Why does anybody give even the remotest toss if one of the rictus-grinning minions of the Haus Der Maus happens to be wearing a scarf?

I might add to all you cretins who think that a headscarf represents "bondage" and such equally dim ideas that the head-scarf as an item of apparel exists outside Islam and always has.

Image

OH LOOK A MUSLIM!! ! IN A TANK!! ! Oh sorry no its Margaret Thatcher, a lady of a certain age in a tank.

Image

OMG THERE'S ANOTHER ONE. LOOK AT HER BEING A SLAVE TO ISLAM. Ohnosorry thats HRH Queen Elizabeth. Head of the CHURCH OF ENGLAND.

I pity you, truly I do.


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Wombat
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09 Feb 2011, 7:44 pm

John_Browning wrote:
If it's out of uniform it's out of uniform. What's next? Islam-friendly uniforms for Hooters waitresses? :roll:


Darn, you beat me to it. :D

What about the fast food places where the staff are forced to wear really dumb hats and uniforms that make them feel like geeks?



murphycop
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09 Feb 2011, 7:46 pm

:roll:

I wonder if those ladies would sue if they were asked to remove it for work. Oh wait...


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Wombat
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09 Feb 2011, 7:48 pm

Macbeth wrote:
OMG THERE'S ANOTHER ONE. LOOK AT HER BEING A SLAVE TO ISLAM. Ohnosorry thats HRH Queen Elizabeth. Head of the CHURCH OF ENGLAND.


The Queen is a different matter. I think she bought a truckload of clothes back in 1955 and hasn't updated her wardrobe since then :twisted:



ruveyn
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09 Feb 2011, 9:10 pm

Mutate wrote:
I think people should be allowed to wear religious clothing at work such as turbans. A headscarf is really normal and important to islamic/middle eastern culture. They should see that. I think it shows a lot of ignorance. Common sense says that a person who wants to wear really different clothing, such as a face mask, would not be working outside their own community anyway. a head scarf is nothing to offend anyone, loads of shops i have ever worked in had women in head scarf. I dont see why it matters if she only started wearing it after working as lots of people re-convert or re-commit to their faith at different times of life.


The head scarf violated the employer's dress code. End of story.

ruveyn



Wombat
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09 Feb 2011, 9:55 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The head scarf violated the employer's dress code. End of story.
ruveyn


Ahh... but is it? A Sikh has to wear a turban. An orthodox Jew has to wear a hat and/or a beard. An orthodox Muslim HAS to have an untrimmed beard.

I can see both sides of the story but I can't see any easy answers.



ikorack
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09 Feb 2011, 10:51 pm

The 'easy' answer is, if you wish to do as you please find some place where that is acceptable or find a way where no one is a position to tell you what to do. She has no right to expect her company to change based on her whims.(no matter what the nature of that whim is)



AceOfSpades
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09 Feb 2011, 10:53 pm

Holy wtf if you're in another country you have to adapt to it to some extent. This is just ridiculous, I heard of some guy a long time ago who didn't want to wear a helmet cuz that means he would have to take off his turban. I know for a fact it's a multicultural nation but goddamn man it's not like you have to be such a tight ass.

What's next, the police department ends up getting sued cuz seat belts are sacrilegious? :roll:



Macbeth
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10 Feb 2011, 6:09 am

Wombat wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
OMG THERE'S ANOTHER ONE. LOOK AT HER BEING A SLAVE TO ISLAM. Ohnosorry thats HRH Queen Elizabeth. Head of the CHURCH OF ENGLAND.


The Queen is a different matter. I think she bought a truckload of clothes back in 1955 and hasn't updated her wardrobe since then :twisted:


It may be an old-fashioned choice of headgear, but it certainly isn't singularly Islamic.

The press spend a lot of time working out when they have seen the Queens clothes beforehand. Can't say as I understand why though.


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Macbeth
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10 Feb 2011, 6:12 am

John_Browning wrote:
Craig28 wrote:
If they wear head scarves and work with machines and it accidentially came loose and got stuck in some machinery, then there would be some serious things being brought up. But anyway, Indian people always wear their turbans properly and if one did come lose, then that only proves to show that it was done on purpose in order to invoke a lawsuit.

Turbans and headscarves would be hazardous to wear during wood and metal work. Especially welding or using a cutting torch where anything put on your head has to be non flammable.


Curious then how Indian society has managed to last so long, through wars and industrialisation and everything else with "unsafe" headgear....


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10 Feb 2011, 6:25 am

visagrunt wrote:
ADoyle wrote:
Disney did try to make accommodations by offering her a switch to a "backstage" position where she could get away with wearing the headscarf, but she refused.


And there's the winning move.

A Disney cast member isn't so much in a uniform as they are in a costume. A uniform can, in some cases, be adapted to include religious headgear. A costume, however, is a different matter.

But the question becomes, how integral is the costume to the performance that Disney is selling. If the race of the cast member is irrelevant to the visual integrity of the performance, cannot religious headgear be designed that incorporates with the costume?


Better winning move: Allow staff to wear Disney Head-scarves, market a range of them in the gift-shop, and away you go with the huge profiteering. Or how about giving her a position in the Alladin cast? Plenty of head-scarves in that.

I'm more interested in finding out WHY a specific item of clothing is verboten than anything else. Doesn't seem like it makes one iota of difference if she wears a head-scarf or not, she still has to grin like a a zombie and act like she's on uppers all day. I meet staff in various shops and venues all the time with all manner of head-gear, and I can't say as it ever detracted from the experience.

Finally: She wants to work at Disney, with the giant talking mouse and the flying elephant. She probably isn't a hard-liner.


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10 Feb 2011, 6:27 am

Wombat wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The head scarf violated the employer's dress code. End of story.
ruveyn


Ahh... but is it? A Sikh has to wear a turban. An orthodox Jew has to wear a hat and/or a beard. An orthodox Muslim HAS to have an untrimmed beard.

I can see both sides of the story but I can't see any easy answers.


The answer is clear: if you feel you have to wear some sort of clothing which a job won't allow you to wear, either take it off or don't take the job.



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10 Feb 2011, 6:37 am

AceOfSpades wrote:
Holy wtf if you're in another country you have to adapt to it to some extent. This is just ridiculous, I heard of some guy a long time ago who didn't want to wear a helmet cuz that means he would have to take off his turban. I know for a fact it's a multicultural nation but goddamn man it's not like you have to be such a tight ass.

What's next, the police department ends up getting sued cuz seat belts are sacrilegious? :roll:


You may be thinking of the problems with UK policing in special fields of work (Riot and Firearms) where a substantial amount of effort was put into finding a suitable way to protect Sikh officers heads, based on current health and safety requirements. Surprisingly however, 15ft of cloth and hair is remarkably durable in most circumstances, and as capable of preventing blunt trauma as a regular police hat. Perhaps not so good against shrapnel or bullets though.

However, they seem to have missed the two world wars where Sikh soldiers fought with bravery and distinction sans helmet.

The turban isn't JUST about the cloth...there is a LOT of hair under there which is contained by the cloth. Any headgear would have to take that into account as well.

The only situation I have found so far where the headgear really was an definite operational issue was in the police helicopter crew, where obviously the helmet is quite integral to the operation of the machine.


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Macbeth
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10 Feb 2011, 6:45 am

Asp-Z wrote:
Wombat wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The head scarf violated the employer's dress code. End of story.
ruveyn


Ahh... but is it? A Sikh has to wear a turban. An orthodox Jew has to wear a hat and/or a beard. An orthodox Muslim HAS to have an untrimmed beard.

I can see both sides of the story but I can't see any easy answers.


The answer is clear: if you feel you have to wear some sort of clothing which a job won't allow you to wear, either take it off or don't take the job.


That does not however answer the question of why a certain item of clothing, in itself harmless and inoffensive, should be forbidden in this job. After all, its not as if she was trying to work in The magical castle reception wearing a certain Cradle of Filth T-shirt and hot-pants. THAT, I could understand as being something Disney might feel was inappropriate to the situation.


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