Alien Messages

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I think this is the major stumbling point for the skeptics, and Ruvyn is certainly not alone in making this assumption.

Scientists assume that there is a very high probability alien life exists in the universe. Infact the probability that Homo Sapiens on planet Earth are the only higher evolved life form in the universe is extremely low as the mechanism that gave rise to life (moderately warm temperatures, light and water) is so common that the prospects of life not arising elsewhere seems almost impossible.

Here's where the problem starts. Our scientists play safe (like monkey see monkey do).
a) Since they claim we cannot provide evidence of a flying saucer or alien therefore it proves they (aliens) have never visited this planet.
b) Since our own technology is too primitive to overcome the distance of space we assume all alien life forms are stuck in the same dilemma of technological barriers as us.
c) Since we mapped our evolution on earth the scientists grandest assumption is that life evolves exactly like on earth and that humanoid life forms are probably the most likely outcome of evolution on other planets. This therefore supports the skeptics point (b).

The flaws with these are easy to pick
a) Just because we haven't got a UFO to parade around or captured an alien in the flesh does not mean they are not here. It might be they are not so stupid to fall into our hands or they choose not to reveal themselves as we are quite primitive.
b) There is no reason to suggest higher life did not evolve in other galaxies millions or billions of years before earth humans. If this is the case then civilizations elsewhere could do amazing things with their technology. Even if you don't believe worm holes in the fabric of time, these higher beings could project their minds deep into space without physically leaving their home planet. A kind of astral projection or remote viewing could be possible if your brain is millions of years evolved. Secondly the beings could develop faster than light unmanned ships that can zap across space and take photos/images of people eating an icecream watching a Dodgers game or the world series here on earth.
c) Since we humans do not understand how life evolved on our own planet then it seems slightly arrogant to think it must evolve in exactly the same way in the rest of the universe.

Conclusion: We humans are pretty good at projecting our ego driven views on the rest of the universe.

I can't imagine that the answer to that question is anything else but magnetism... it's everywhere, even in the so-called "emptiness" of space, holding everything together with its power.

The "big bang" of the distant past (thinking of the "big bang" theory - not that it was a "bang" at all, though) also confirms that the speed of light isn't a limit.

Also, black "holes" emit radiation. How is that possible if the speed of light is the limit? Light is radiation, and doesn't leave the black holes, so the radiation they emit clearly moves past the speed of light.

Do not confuse "Hawking Radiation", a quantum effect, with electro-magnetic radiation.

No radiation comes out of a black hole. All the radiation is produced as stuff gets sucked into the black hole just outside the event horizon. The upper bound on speeds of massive objects is 299,953 km/sec give or take a small measurement error. No experiment or measurement done in the last 200 years indicates otherwise. And do not be bamboozled by phase velocity which can exceed light speed. That is a mathematical artifact, not the motion of any material body. That is it. Nothing goes faster.

ruveyn

Physics is such a bummer.

I do think magnetics is the drive of choice, and due to the cargo involved, something like a tomato, 1 G, is the most they would withstand for a long trip. Then the second half is slowing at 1G.

This would not reach anywhere near the speed of light, and a forty light year crossing would take many generations.

We can freeze people, so far we have no luck unfreezing them.

Even a crew of embryos would need twenty years of food at the far end before they could think of landing a 200 year old ship. We can freeze an embryo, but no tests on long term. Then they have to be hatched, raised, trained. They then need immunity to everything, growing up on a sealed ship, and the ability to digest the local food.

They can not call home, as the signal would take forty years.

We are not going soon, but the Greys have a great offer now.

I have to disagree with you on 2 points: projecting anything into interstellar space requires tremendous energy. The Arecibo message required a 1MW transmitter and that was with a directional signal. So unless your boney little 3' tall grey dude has 860,000 calories to burn per hour just for the part of their brain that sends signals alone and a way to direct that signal, that's just not going to happen. Additionally, astral projection is in the realm of the supernatural and the occult. Even if it was scientifically grounded, it would still be a horrible way to make contact because you would first be introducing yourself to the most mentally unstable people interested in alien life.

The logistical barriers you describe certainly seem daunting to us. However I am envisaging a being that is millions of years more advanced has overcome such barriers in ways we perhaps could not imagine (yet).



Yes I am not suggesting astral travelling is possible for us, just using it as a model for an advanced being to contact earthlings.

There is anecdotal evidence the CIA were researching remote viewing (not sure if you've seen the George Clooney movie "Men who Stare at Goats"). There is also a peer reviewed research paper from the University of Arizona that records a demonstration of how thoughts from one person can influence another persons mood in a completely different building. All early days.

Last edited by cyberdad on 01 Jul 2011, 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What alien society? Write us when the get here, would you?

ruveyn

LOL! I guess only time will tell.

Hypothetical alien society. If the abduction stories are true, then that would mean they know something about science and engineering we don't. If our technology was that good, then we'd be the ones terrorizing the local neighborhood kidnapping and probing every alien species we found that has an as*hole instead of the other way around.

That would involve making mass out of nothing or energy out of nothing. Doing that would be a bigger feat than breaking the speed of light.

Like we have done to every animal species.

Travelling at speed of light seems impractical because as our bodies reach the critical speed the cells become dissociated into energy. Aliens might just project thelseves across space or they might just develop a very advanced version of the Hubble telescope that can watch what I am typing and even listen to my thoughts? who knows.

Apologies in advance for the questioning but here are a few of my personal thoughts/confusions on the subject..

Why are aliens generally humanoid? Why are they often involved in New Age ideas, being that they are human concepts?
Would they necessarily be capable of cognitive thought?
They may have been around a lot longer but does that necessarily mean they are more advanced?
Why would they care about such a simple planet? Or have designs for intervention/domination, etc.? Those are human traits are they not?
Wouldn't every aspect of 'alien' be incomprehensible to us? I've always thought the idea of the Lovecraftian 'insanity' of failure to comprehend would be a better fit than Star Trek-y deep space, many race, politics and agendas. I suppose both are equally likely/unlikely.

Apologies again, I'm trying to break my forum 'shell'. I often read and think 'I'd like to get involved..' but acting on that doesn't come naturally, ha.

No worries Danny, welcome aboard.



Good question, the current thinking is that earth like planets are most likely to give rise to life. Based on the model here on earth there is a likelihood that humanoid beings would have evolved eslewhere. However disease, asteroids and other factors can easily switch the dominant life form. There is no reason to suppose that if earth was not hit my a meteor 70 million years ago that mammals would remain small shrew like animals and never evolve. In that scenario reptile like velaciraptors are likely to have evolved to become the most dominant creatures based on their intelligence. In a world effected by warming covered in oceans then a cephalaopd type creature (like a squid) might be dominant based once again on their very high intelligence.



Yes, of course,



Hmmm well that's a tricky one, in theory you may be right, but if they are anything like us they will either destroy themselves or their planet or be navigating their way through space as we speak.



I'm not sure, motivation needs is hard to predict. If they are cryogenically preserved and are similar level of technology then earth may be an attractive proposition to settle.



I think you are talking about a Star Trek or Babylon 5 scenario? yes that is really unknown I'm afraid your guess is good as mine. I would like to think there is a inter-galactic federation of civilisations that take responsibility for emerging civilizations like our own, However that may be wishful thinking.

Forget that Science Fiction notion. The stars are too far apart and light travels only about 300,000 km/sec.

ruveyn

you're forgetting the "Nordics". Basically terrestrial type humans with idealized blue eyed blond scandanavian features.

They were the most commonly sighted space aliens in Europe before Europeans started to read Peter Straub novels in the eighties, and then they started seeing the same kind of grays that we see here in America and the Nordics gradually stopped visiting.

Kinda like the fact that usually only Anglos see bigfoot, and only Hispanics see goatsuckers, but thats another can of worms.


I stumbled on a whole list of alien types on the web once: grays, reptilians, and nordics were the top types, but there were several other kinds that Ive forgetten.