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Adamantium
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03 Apr 2015, 11:42 pm

Aniihya wrote:
You keep on linking stuff that actually supports my points. You don't quick seem to understand my point though and your inability to understand my point is making further discussion pointless.

Did you not pay attention that words have a very important role in these papers? It is always the "may" and "could" suggesting a possibility and not a fact. However you seem to try to put your opinion of autism not being connected to criminality as fact.

So I am done here as it will just go on and on and on about you trying to state a certainty and me trying to state a possibility and not a certainty.

No the words "this study does not attempt to find an association between autism and criminality" means something very different than you contend. Adding a phrase some people with ASDs and a propensity to crime may need special attention does not somehow change the message.

The papers simply don't say what you think they say.



heavenlyabyss
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04 Apr 2015, 6:17 am

Asperger's doesn't cause criminal behavior. It might be possible that a particular person with asperger's feels ostracized, isolated, and decides to retaliate and perhaps this retaliation is in part caused by bullying or ostracism. But that doesn't mean that another person who undergoes the exact same circumstances might not retaliate. And that doens't mean that autistics as a whole are more prone to violence. Yes, there might be an indirect "link" in some specific circumstances... and of course, society as a whole should treat the marginalized better. So many bullies out there cry disbelief when a marginalized person acts out violent. It's like, shut the hell up ,you as*hole. And so many people are as*holes.

I truly believe that most of the world's problems today come from bad parenting. Spanking, hitting, yelling, are passed down from generation to generation and until we start parenting better, there are always going to be angry people out there.

As for the psychopaths, well they provide us something to fight against. I'm not worried about them. They provide an easy target, they give us something to rally against. My bigger problem is with bad parenting.



Adamantium
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04 Apr 2015, 8:16 am

Aniihya wrote:
So I am done here as it will just go on and on and on about you trying to state a certainty and me trying to state a possibility and not a certainty.

You may wish to believe that this is what has happened in this thread, but your own words are still here:
Aniihya wrote:
most studies indicate that people with Aspergers are significantly more likely to commit murder or arson than an NT while are significantly less likely to commit sexual crimes or robbery. Some studies differentiate between HFA and AS, stating that people with HFA are unlikely to commit crimes while those with AS are more likely to commit a crime.


I don't believe that is factual.

None of these studies support a conclusion that people with Aspergers are significantly more likely to commit murder or arson than an NT--please note that that is not your "statement of possibility" but an erroneous assertion of fact.

If you actually have data support the statement that "most studies" show that, please reference it.

If you have any links to papers that make this kind of statement, please let me know their titles.

But you just can't take statements like these:

"Although this study does not answer whether ASDs are associated with increased risk of violent offending compared with the general population, careful risk assessment and management may be indicated for some individuals with Asperger syndrome."

"Our review did not attempt to find out if, based on recent literature, persons with AS can be described as being at greater risk of committing violent crime than the general population."

And claim they support this:

"most studies indicate that people with Aspergers are significantly more likely to commit murder or arson than an NT"



Aniihya
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04 Apr 2015, 12:28 pm

i already told you I am out of this. This is the last post regarding this. if you yet still reply then expect no answer.



Adamantium
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04 Apr 2015, 6:49 pm

Aniihya wrote:
i already told you I am out of this. This is the last post regarding this. if you yet still reply then expect no answer.

Your choice, but I'll take it as an indication that you have no evidence to support the assertions you made earlier in the thread.



Aristophanes
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04 Apr 2015, 8:23 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Aniihya wrote:
i already told you I am out of this. This is the last post regarding this. if you yet still reply then expect no answer.

Your choice, but I'll take it as an indication that you have no evidence to support the assertions you made earlier in the thread.


People get burned out debating all the time, myself included. I don't agree with Aniihya, Aniihya doesn't agree with me or you. No matter how much we go round and round none of us will probably ever agree completely with the others, and continuing the debate would get nowhere. Don't take a person getting burned out as victory.

Besides, the argument isn't really about any of the posters, it's about the people that read the viewpoints expressed here-- many who never post. Turning it into a personal fight only turns them away from your viewpoint.



Adamantium
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05 Apr 2015, 1:34 am

Aristophanes wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Aniihya wrote:
i already told you I am out of this. This is the last post regarding this. if you yet still reply then expect no answer.

Your choice, but I'll take it as an indication that you have no evidence to support the assertions you made earlier in the thread.


People get burned out debating all the time, myself included. I don't agree with Aniihya, Aniihya doesn't agree with me or you. No matter how much we go round and round none of us will probably ever agree completely with the others, and continuing the debate would get nowhere. Don't take a person getting burned out as victory.

Besides, the argument isn't really about any of the posters, it's about the people that read the viewpoints expressed here-- many who never post. Turning it into a personal fight only turns them away from your viewpoint.


Fair enough. But if there was evidence to support those remarkable statements, I would like to see it. If there isn't evidence, then the claim should not have been made.

Maybe it doesn't matter, but maybe it could do great harm.



lostonearth35
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06 Apr 2015, 3:47 pm

Oh yes, I've engaged in all kinds of unspeakable acts of criminal activity. Like copying a rented video tape of Bugs Bunny cartoons when I was a kid. :roll:



FranzOren
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08 May 2020, 1:15 pm

As person with milder form of Pervasive Developmental Disorder with history of mental health crisis.

Governments and other facility related to medical subjects, keeps putting general description that people with ASD are more likely to be victims of perpetrators, I however think that people with mild forms of ASD are more likely to perpetrate than a profoundly developmentally delayed population, because the more mild your symptoms of developmental delay becomes, the more you are you are less likely prone to be victim and more likely to be perpetrate compare to people with profound symptoms of developmental delay.

Because symptoms of developmental disorders comes from profound to mild person with history of developmental delay with almost to normal state of mind

based on my opinion but may contain facts, although it is true that people with history of developmental delays and mental disorders are more likely to be victims of perpetrators than being a perpetrators themselves, it is because of severe form of developmental disorders, people with milder forms of developmental disorders and mental disorders are more likely to be perpetrators than a person with moderate to profound and very, very severe form of developmental disorders, because anyone with severe disorders are not able to function as very well in the nature and might have a learning issues that prevents a person from committing most crimes or prevent a person from breaking the laws at all.



I assume that there are people with very rare form of developmental disorder with symptoms of conduct disorder NPD and APD with psychotic features that can make him or her to make bad choices that may lead to criminal acts


My symptoms of Pervasive Developmental Disorder is mild to the point where I am able to do things that involves social skills, have all the skills to be like a psychopath ( as I developed all the social skills by getting special education) and because I don't have trouble with social skills at all anymore, I am more likely to commit crimes than a profoundly developmentally delayed population.


Just because I have Pervasive Developmental Disorder, doesn't mean that I am not capable of of being a perpetrator, especially because my symptoms of developmental delays are now very mild



Last edited by FranzOren on 08 May 2020, 1:42 pm, edited 9 times in total.

FranzOren
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08 May 2020, 1:15 pm

I don't have trouble with social skills at all anymore, even though I do have history of developmental delay and reports that in childhood and early adolescents that I had developmentally delayed milestones and delusional prospective of myself that is part of developmental delay



FranzOren
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22 Jul 2020, 1:45 pm

The problem is that ADHD and milder form of developmental disorders is a lot more common and widespread, compare to anyone with profound developmental disorders

Milder forms of developmental disorders is widespread to the point where criminals can have developmental dsiorders


Criminals are living beings too, any living being can have any health problems



The problem is that there are developmental disorders that might cause you to commit crimes, even though Autism in itself does not cause you to commit crimes


The criminality can also be caused be genetic genetic deficiencies or one and more environmental factors


ADHD is also a developmental disorder



https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Libra ... ntents.pdf



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04 May 2022, 8:56 pm

Aniihya wrote:
Aristophanes: I don't think you read a single study/scientific paper on the matter. It clearly defines the difference between an NT who has committed murder and a murderer diagnosed with ASD. Most of those with ASD, didn't have any criminal record before the crime, were diagnosed before the occurance of the crime and were commonly said to not have experienced the same issues during their childhood that NT murderers had.

By the way, you seem to have mistaken "significant increase" for "most people with hfASD are murderers". In one study, it is mentioned that 3% are likely to commit murder versus 1.5% for NTs. While arson is 15% for hfASD and 5% for NTs. Not all murders have something to do with retaliation or anger. Many of them happened out of sheer negligence. There is one case mentioned where a man diagnosed with Aspergers lit his house on fire, because he wanted to look like a hero and start anew. However his daughter died in the incident. He got jailtime for murder.

And autism isn't an indicator for mass murder and serial killing. It is indicated that people who kill many (by themselves compared to dictators), are in fact often of extraordinary intelligence. It is not an assumption. It is an observation. Back in the olden day, it is unknown of what intelligence mass murderers were, since back then people could not be tracked as quickly and temporarily get away with it. Nowadays, to commit more than just a double murder or even plan a murder, people need to be thorough and intelligent, trimming down the group to those who are more intellectually adept.

So, instead of assuming what people think you should do the research.


I don't mean to be peaky, but it sounds like that this person that burned the house on fire and killed his daughter without meaning to. What you mentioned that he has severe delusions of grander alongside with ASD, and should get murder charged down to voluntary manslaughter. In order to murder, you need to kill with malice. And he cannot be found completely responsible for his actions, because he has delusions of grandeur.