The Major Factor underlying the Increase in Rampage Killings

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What is the Major Factor underlying the Increase of Rampage Killings in the last 3 Decades?
Guns. 16%  16%  [ 12 ]
A New Demographic of Males under the age of 26. 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
The loss or abscence of a Social Role in Society. 27%  27%  [ 20 ]
Violent Video Games. 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Mental Disturbance. 21%  21%  [ 16 ]
Expiration of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban in 2004. 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Other, Please Comment. 24%  24%  [ 18 ]
Total votes : 75

Raptor
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23 Dec 2012, 8:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm sorry, but other countries have violent video games and entertainment, and lack positive role models. And when haven't there been crazy people? The fact is, most mentally ill persons aren't the perpetrators of crime, but are the victims. The fact of the matter is, the one thing Americans have that other countries don't is the unlimited access to most guns. To deny that as the crux of the problem is to live in self-delusion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Other countries generally have a more servile population. Even without gun control they'd have minimal crime.
I don't know what you mean by "unlimited access". The anti's love to screech about how just anyone can run into a store and buy a dangerous "assault weapon". I've actually heard that or words to that effect and, of course, I've gleefully ripped it to sheds for them.

Really, for those of you who think you'd feel safer in Europe or Japan please relocate to there. I'll help you pack.


Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
Compared to other countries, we have virtually unlimited access to guns.

Up until I or someone here told you I doubt you had a clue about gun procurement laws in this country.
Quote:
And what does servile have to do with anything?

Less likely be be rebellious, less independent minded, more obediaent to authority, etc...
Quote:
Plenty of Americans who love liberty, and are ready to push when they get shoved aren't enamored with guns, and would never try to settle a conflict with one.
Yes, they love liberty but not the perils related to true liberty. Sort of liking money but not the work to get it.
Quote:
As for immigrating to Europe or Japan - no thanks; I sucked at high school German, so language would be a real problem. Besides, who says people calling for gun control can't love America? I certainly do, and would not want to live anywhere else.

The the UK or Australia. No real language barrier and I found that when in the UK I can effortlessly pick emulate the local English accent and blend right in.


Kraichgauer wrote:
You forget to address that I love America, and would not want to give up my citizenship.

Love it in spirit or in name only?
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says non-gun owners, or even people with gun control opinions don't appreciate the perils related to liberty?.

The right to bear arms is clearly a liberty. Me personally I think it is a personal choice and so do most others. If you don't want one then don't get one. Leave those that do want one or have them to thier own choices.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Plenty of such citizens join the military. Even those who don't in fact do understand the perils that might threaten freedom.

More like they do it soley because it's emplyoment, training, and college money. The few liberals I knew in the military had no grasp of what they were actually there for and anyyone who did they called "ate up".
Kraichgauer wrote:
But how does owning a gun have to do with fighting for freedom? Seriously, against a professional army, private citizens with guns aren't going to stand a chance. To think otherwise is deluded.

Study up on guerilla warfare a little willl ya...
And it's not just about fighting goverment but any invading army as well.
And there's more to freedom then fighting armies. Being able to defend oneself, family, and home against whatever threat might come along fits the same thing.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Dec 2012, 8:25 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm sorry, but other countries have violent video games and entertainment, and lack positive role models. And when haven't there been crazy people? The fact is, most mentally ill persons aren't the perpetrators of crime, but are the victims. The fact of the matter is, the one thing Americans have that other countries don't is the unlimited access to most guns. To deny that as the crux of the problem is to live in self-delusion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Other countries generally have a more servile population. Even without gun control they'd have minimal crime.
I don't know what you mean by "unlimited access". The anti's love to screech about how just anyone can run into a store and buy a dangerous "assault weapon". I've actually heard that or words to that effect and, of course, I've gleefully ripped it to sheds for them.

Really, for those of you who think you'd feel safer in Europe or Japan please relocate to there. I'll help you pack.


Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
Compared to other countries, we have virtually unlimited access to guns.

Up until I or someone here told you I doubt you had a clue about gun procurement laws in this country.
Quote:
And what does servile have to do with anything?

Less likely be be rebellious, less independent minded, more obediaent to authority, etc...
Quote:
Plenty of Americans who love liberty, and are ready to push when they get shoved aren't enamored with guns, and would never try to settle a conflict with one.
Yes, they love liberty but not the perils related to true liberty. Sort of liking money but not the work to get it.
Quote:
As for immigrating to Europe or Japan - no thanks; I sucked at high school German, so language would be a real problem. Besides, who says people calling for gun control can't love America? I certainly do, and would not want to live anywhere else.

The the UK or Australia. No real language barrier and I found that when in the UK I can effortlessly pick emulate the local English accent and blend right in.


Kraichgauer wrote:
You forget to address that I love America, and would not want to give up my citizenship.

Love it in spirit or in name only?
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says non-gun owners, or even people with gun control opinions don't appreciate the perils related to liberty?.

The right to bear arms is clearly a liberty. Me personally I think it is a personal choice and so do most others. If you don't want one then don't get one. Leave those that do want one or have them to thier own choices.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Plenty of such citizens join the military. Even those who don't in fact do understand the perils that might threaten freedom.

More like they do it soley because it's emplyoment, training, and college money. The few liberals I knew in the military had no grasp of what they were actually there for and anyyone who did they called "ate up".
Kraichgauer wrote:
But how does owning a gun have to do with fighting for freedom? Seriously, against a professional army, private citizens with guns aren't going to stand a chance. To think otherwise is deluded.

Study up on guerilla warfare a little willl ya...
And it's not just about fighting goverment but any invading army as well.
And there's more to freedom then fighting armies. Being able to defend oneself, family, and home against whatever threat might come along fits the same thing.


Yes, I do in fact love America in spirit and name.
And while guerrilla warfare is a way for ordinary citizens with guns to fight invaders, the fact remains, it's professional armies that win battles. In the Revolutionary War, a common myth was that local militias had defeated the British. In fact, it was the Continental army under George Washington's command, and training of the well oiled, professional Prussian army under Von Steuben, that had led America to victory. The militias in fact were of dubious military worth at best (despite a few victories), and often switched from one side to another. And during the Civil War, guerrilla forces soiled the uniforms of the regular troops on both sides, with their atrocious behavior.
And while you had met some liberals in the military who only saw service as a job, I doubt that was representative of all liberals in the military.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Ascagne
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23 Dec 2012, 8:37 pm

Quote:
Other countries generally have a more servile population.


If you speak about the European ones, I'd like to know the reasons of such a judgement. :roll: What a choice of term...
"Less independent-minded" ? 8O



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23 Dec 2012, 8:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm sorry, but other countries have violent video games and entertainment, and lack positive role models. And when haven't there been crazy people? The fact is, most mentally ill persons aren't the perpetrators of crime, but are the victims. The fact of the matter is, the one thing Americans have that other countries don't is the unlimited access to most guns. To deny that as the crux of the problem is to live in self-delusion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Other countries generally have a more servile population. Even without gun control they'd have minimal crime.
I don't know what you mean by "unlimited access". The anti's love to screech about how just anyone can run into a store and buy a dangerous "assault weapon". I've actually heard that or words to that effect and, of course, I've gleefully ripped it to sheds for them.

Really, for those of you who think you'd feel safer in Europe or Japan please relocate to there. I'll help you pack.


Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
Compared to other countries, we have virtually unlimited access to guns.

Up until I or someone here told you I doubt you had a clue about gun procurement laws in this country.
Quote:
And what does servile have to do with anything?

Less likely be be rebellious, less independent minded, more obediaent to authority, etc...
Quote:
Plenty of Americans who love liberty, and are ready to push when they get shoved aren't enamored with guns, and would never try to settle a conflict with one.
Yes, they love liberty but not the perils related to true liberty. Sort of liking money but not the work to get it.
Quote:
As for immigrating to Europe or Japan - no thanks; I sucked at high school German, so language would be a real problem. Besides, who says people calling for gun control can't love America? I certainly do, and would not want to live anywhere else.

The the UK or Australia. No real language barrier and I found that when in the UK I can effortlessly pick emulate the local English accent and blend right in.


Kraichgauer wrote:
You forget to address that I love America, and would not want to give up my citizenship.

Love it in spirit or in name only?
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says non-gun owners, or even people with gun control opinions don't appreciate the perils related to liberty?.

The right to bear arms is clearly a liberty. Me personally I think it is a personal choice and so do most others. If you don't want one then don't get one. Leave those that do want one or have them to thier own choices.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Plenty of such citizens join the military. Even those who don't in fact do understand the perils that might threaten freedom.

More like they do it soley because it's emplyoment, training, and college money. The few liberals I knew in the military had no grasp of what they were actually there for and anyyone who did they called "ate up".
Kraichgauer wrote:
But how does owning a gun have to do with fighting for freedom? Seriously, against a professional army, private citizens with guns aren't going to stand a chance. To think otherwise is deluded.

Study up on guerilla warfare a little willl ya...
And it's not just about fighting goverment but any invading army as well.
And there's more to freedom then fighting armies. Being able to defend oneself, family, and home against whatever threat might come along fits the same thing.


Yes, I do in fact love America in spirit and name.
And while guerrilla warfare is a way for ordinary citizens with guns to fight invaders, the fact remains, it's professional armies that win battles. In the Revolutionary War, a common myth was that local militias had defeated the British. In fact, it was the Continental army under George Washington's command, and training of the well oiled, professional Prussian army under Von Steuben, that had led America to victory. The militias in fact were of dubious military worth at best (despite a few victories), and often switched from one side to another. And during the Civil War, guerrilla forces soiled the uniforms of the regular troops on both sides, with their atrocious behavior.
And while you had met some liberals in the military who only saw service as a job, I doubt that was representative of all liberals in the military.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


:wall:
Obviously you don't stop a tank with a rifle, shoot down an A-10 with a shotgun, or ambush a squad with a handgun.
Guerilla warfare is about making the enemy uncomfortable by making them feel vulnerable. You don’t defeat them on the battlefield but you do smaller yet painful little things rob them of their confidence and demoralize them. Rot them away at the foundation.
Read up on it. I have other things to do this evening besides spell it all out in detail.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Dec 2012, 8:57 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm sorry, but other countries have violent video games and entertainment, and lack positive role models. And when haven't there been crazy people? The fact is, most mentally ill persons aren't the perpetrators of crime, but are the victims. The fact of the matter is, the one thing Americans have that other countries don't is the unlimited access to most guns. To deny that as the crux of the problem is to live in self-delusion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Other countries generally have a more servile population. Even without gun control they'd have minimal crime.
I don't know what you mean by "unlimited access". The anti's love to screech about how just anyone can run into a store and buy a dangerous "assault weapon". I've actually heard that or words to that effect and, of course, I've gleefully ripped it to sheds for them.

Really, for those of you who think you'd feel safer in Europe or Japan please relocate to there. I'll help you pack.


Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
Compared to other countries, we have virtually unlimited access to guns.

Up until I or someone here told you I doubt you had a clue about gun procurement laws in this country.
Quote:
And what does servile have to do with anything?

Less likely be be rebellious, less independent minded, more obediaent to authority, etc...
Quote:
Plenty of Americans who love liberty, and are ready to push when they get shoved aren't enamored with guns, and would never try to settle a conflict with one.
Yes, they love liberty but not the perils related to true liberty. Sort of liking money but not the work to get it.
Quote:
As for immigrating to Europe or Japan - no thanks; I sucked at high school German, so language would be a real problem. Besides, who says people calling for gun control can't love America? I certainly do, and would not want to live anywhere else.

The the UK or Australia. No real language barrier and I found that when in the UK I can effortlessly pick emulate the local English accent and blend right in.


Kraichgauer wrote:
You forget to address that I love America, and would not want to give up my citizenship.

Love it in spirit or in name only?
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says non-gun owners, or even people with gun control opinions don't appreciate the perils related to liberty?.

The right to bear arms is clearly a liberty. Me personally I think it is a personal choice and so do most others. If you don't want one then don't get one. Leave those that do want one or have them to thier own choices.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Plenty of such citizens join the military. Even those who don't in fact do understand the perils that might threaten freedom.

More like they do it soley because it's emplyoment, training, and college money. The few liberals I knew in the military had no grasp of what they were actually there for and anyyone who did they called "ate up".
Kraichgauer wrote:
But how does owning a gun have to do with fighting for freedom? Seriously, against a professional army, private citizens with guns aren't going to stand a chance. To think otherwise is deluded.

Study up on guerilla warfare a little willl ya...
And it's not just about fighting goverment but any invading army as well.
And there's more to freedom then fighting armies. Being able to defend oneself, family, and home against whatever threat might come along fits the same thing.


Yes, I do in fact love America in spirit and name.
And while guerrilla warfare is a way for ordinary citizens with guns to fight invaders, the fact remains, it's professional armies that win battles. In the Revolutionary War, a common myth was that local militias had defeated the British. In fact, it was the Continental army under George Washington's command, and training of the well oiled, professional Prussian army under Von Steuben, that had led America to victory. The militias in fact were of dubious military worth at best (despite a few victories), and often switched from one side to another. And during the Civil War, guerrilla forces soiled the uniforms of the regular troops on both sides, with their atrocious behavior.
And while you had met some liberals in the military who only saw service as a job, I doubt that was representative of all liberals in the military.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


:wall:
Obviously you don't stop a tank with a rifle, shoot down an A-10 with a shotgun, or ambush a squad with a handgun.
Guerilla warfare is about making the enemy uncomfortable by making them feel vulnerable. You don’t defeat them on the battlefield but you do smaller yet painful little things rob them of their confidence and demoralize them. Rot them away at the foundation.
Read up on it. I have other things to do this evening besides spell it all out in detail.


I'm well aware of how and what guerrillas do. But if they achieve victory, it's going to take years after uncomfortable years. And it's not going to be a strain on just the regular army they're at war with, but on themselves, as well. And the thing about guerrilla warfare is, that strain and bitterness does a lot to dehumanize the fighters, bringing them to commit acts they would not have previously done. Petty ugly stuff, if you ask me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Dec 2012, 9:11 pm

I ticked excessive quoting

The Major Factor underlying the Increase in Rampage Killings

other, the copycat factor has changed in the last 3 decades, white males used to be older than present



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23 Dec 2012, 9:22 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm well aware of how and what guerrillas do. But if they achieve victory, it's going to take years after uncomfortable years. And it's not going to be a strain on just the regular army they're at war with, but on themselves, as well. And the thing about guerrilla warfare is, that strain and bitterness does a lot to dehumanize the fighters, bringing them to commit acts they would not have previously done. Petty ugly stuff, if you ask me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Ugly as it is it may be necessary and ultimately better than the alternative.


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23 Dec 2012, 9:36 pm

Fnord wrote:
Please provide links to cited references.


Links are my memory.

Though they're all easy to find (Google a name and type in Asperger's next to it), but by my memory (which is too good):

-Anders: professor said he has AS, Tourette's and Narcissistic PD.
-Martin Bryant: Crown's psychiatrist diagnosed him with it (the refutation of this provides incorrect information regarding Asperger's and actually supports it); mother says he has it too
-Adam: lots of people; the former director of school security who said his mother showed him documents containing the label Asperger's would be the one to look to

-Gifford's killer: said to have Schizophrenia (same and equal level of sources as those above)
-"Joker"; ditto

Cho: selective Mutism, though he did display autistic symptoms that couldn't be explained by Selective Mutism -- that's speculation though
Columbine: ADHD for one and Anti-social PD for the other

Lots of mental disorders among the people who do these things. I don't know what it means.


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23 Dec 2012, 9:53 pm

Also lack of good policy at Autism Speaks may be a relevant point



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23 Dec 2012, 10:27 pm

Raptor wrote:
Ugly as it is it may be necessary and ultimately better than the alternative.


I believe it was Clausewitz who had warned that in war, one must be careful with destroying your enemies, as you can in the end destroy yourself.
And Nietzsche had warned, if you look into the abyss too long, the abyss stares back.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Dec 2012, 11:37 pm

All of the previous mass shooters were prescribed antidepressants, stimulants or antipsychotics. With the Adam Lanza case, I get the feeling someone else may have been involved.



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24 Dec 2012, 2:48 am

I blame the increasing inequality, particularly as this is a manifestation of this idea that a narrowing circle of "winners" have the right to trample upon the widening masses of "losers" who are said to deserve this abuse ... the disempowerment of millions of people that's ongoing, and the resulting increase in mistrust throughout society. Though Mr. Lanza was from a privileged background, his personal issues meant that his status in his own community was lower, and as the wider society says such people can and should be abused and reminded of their inferiority, it's clear that he was subject to such pressures and made to feel powerless and without value.



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24 Dec 2012, 3:36 am

1. Massacres are not increasing. Note the far-left source. http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-mass-shootings-common-20121218,0,6511082.story

2. The number of murder suspects claiming the antidepressant defense is far to small to do a FDA study to be sensitive enough even if it was doubled in size. Each class of medication would have to be tested separately and existing psychiatric problems would have to be ruled out as a contributing factor. Not only are the odds of someone who will kill some one at any point in their entire LIFTETIME extremely remote, but even if you found that 1 DATA POINT, you would still have to rule out other contributing factors. That would be one expensive study that no one would take seriously enough for peer review.

3.

xenon13 wrote:
I blame the increasing inequality, particularly as this is a manifestation of this idea that a narrowing circle of "winners" have the right to trample upon the widening masses of "losers" who are said to deserve this abuse ... the disempowerment of millions of people that's ongoing, and the resulting increase in mistrust throughout society. Though Mr. Lanza was from a privileged background, his personal issues meant that his status in his own community was lower, and as the wider society says such people can and should be abused and reminded of their inferiority, it's clear that he was subject to such pressures and made to feel powerless and without value.

:cry: :cry: :cry: WWAAAAHHHH!! !! I WASN'T BORN WITH A SILVER SPOON UP MY ASS AND POPULAR, SO I'M GOING TO HAVE A PITY PARTY IN FRONT OF MY XBOX AND THEN KILL PEOPLE!! ! :cry: :cry: :cry:
[/sarcasm]

Seriously, there is a lot more going wrong with people like that than the media even catches a hint about! Class warfare bullshit is the least of their problems!


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24 Dec 2012, 4:08 am

xenon13 wrote:
I blame the increasing inequality, particularly as this is a manifestation of this idea that a narrowing circle of "winners" have the right to trample upon the widening masses of "losers" who are said to deserve this abuse ... the disempowerment of millions of people that's ongoing, and the resulting increase in mistrust throughout society. Though Mr. Lanza was from a privileged background, his personal issues meant that his status in his own community was lower, and as the wider society says such people can and should be abused and reminded of their inferiority, it's clear that he was subject to such pressures and made to feel powerless and without value.


The incident described below pretty much escaped under the radar of the other incident, as one person was murdered in this school shooting and there was an associated murder in another location, but this individual provided a suicide note to describe his frustrations with his father, his described condition, and even his birth. He described himself in the note as "self diagnosed", according to the report. It is potentially a good thing he didn't have access to an "assault" weapon in the incident. He also expressed anger at society, but not for the reasons one might anticipate.

This incident is classified as a school shooting but not a rampage killing, because of the number of people killed and/or injured. 2012 was a particularly bad year for school shootings, in the last couple of decades, but several of them were suicides only. The method of shooting, with a bow and arrow, was extremely unusual, in this case, as this is the only reported shooting using that method since the records started being kept, according to the Wiki link below. It is also the only incident reported where someone killed themselves with a knife, but that was likely because they did not have a gun.

I think the suicide note provides pretty good evidence that it can be almost impossible to determine what a person's rationale actually is for these type of killings, when there is no access to their thoughts. If there was no suicide note or similar voiced concern to a family friend, it's not likely this motive would have ever been guessed by anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sc ... ates#2010s

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/19/wy ... p=obinsite