Shooting Spree in Isla Vista, California

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Hopper
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25 May 2014, 5:05 am

Get rid of his sense of entitlement. It's a good thing anyway, and it would genuinely have helped him. Feeding the entitlement by saying, 'yeah, you deserve women, here's a date/try a sex worker' - no.

What would be good, in general and in cases like this, is a big social consideration of loneliness. There are a lot of lonely people, and it's not something that's talked about much. Which makes the lonely feel lonelier.

What would also be good is to take down the culture of entitlement to women. Rodgers' beliefs are not particularly rare, nor particularly odd.

https://twitter.com/meladoodle/status/4 ... 69/photo/1


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Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


Lonermutant
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25 May 2014, 5:19 am

Seems to me as if it was his drug abuse that caused this, not that he's an Aspie.



anna-banana
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25 May 2014, 5:34 am

YourMajesty wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
Whilst there's some outliers (such as me and my ability to get the chicks), most of those with AS will be beyond hopeless to make friends and relations.

And it's understandable how it leads to someone becoming a group unto themselves and they blame an entire group for their medically caused failures.

This doesn't defend murder, but it's something people shouldn't overlook.

It's easy for therapists to offer advice, but they don't organize or actually do anything tangible for the high functioning folk.

Organizing a date [or dates] for the guy way back may have prevented it.

It's actually good that he died a virgin and that nobody wanted him. Guys like this should never, EVER have a relationship or anything similar. I wouldn't want to confront this horrible person (it was obvious he was horrible) with anyone. Nobody deserves to date such a sicko because he feels lonely.

There's no reason in him. If he'd had sex he'd still be pathologically angry because they weren't pretty enough, or not often enough, or whatever. He'd still be this person.


Exactly. Most women (at least NT women) can instinctively tell that a person is just 'off' and they would avoid him despite his money and BMWs and Hollywood connections. I bet this guy had always had hateful vibes, otherwise he wouldn't have turned to murder.

Saying that organising a date for him early on could've prevented it sounds a bit like blaming women for what he did, actually.

Having sexual partners, dating and love are not a human right. This dude was a spoilt rich white entitled as*hole filled with hate, ie. the ultimate undesirable.


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Larsen80
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25 May 2014, 6:01 am

From his manifesto

Quote:
I questioned the very fabric of reality. Why did this all exist? I wondered. How did life come to be? What was the nature of reality? What was my place in all of it? There was no point to my life anymore. I was never going to lose my virginity. I was never going to get a girlfriend. Because girls are repulsed by me, I was never going to have children and pass on my genes. The only way that I could have been worthy enough to beautiful girls is if I become wealthy at a young age, and the faith I had in that happened had just been crushed. There was no hope left. The life I could have had ceased to exist. I will never have sex, never have love, never have children. I will never be a creator, but I could be a destroyer. Life had been cruel to me. The human species had rejected me all my life, despite the fact that I am the ideal, magnificent gentleman. Life itself is twisted and disgusting, I mused. Humans are brutal animals. If I cannot thrive among them, then I will destroy them all. I didn't want things to turn out this way. I wanted a happy, healthy life of love and sex. But if I'm unable to have such a life, then I will have no choice but to exact revenge on the society that denied it to me.

Clearly he was burdened with some heavy existentialist thoughts and didn't find any answers. Now he and his victims are dead so what does it matter. Well I still think it is fair to demand an answer on exactly he was supposed to DO to be socially accepted.



Tawaki
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25 May 2014, 6:45 am

Lonermutant wrote:
Seems to me as if it was his drug abuse that caused this, not that he's an Aspie.


Money balms over a lot of grossness. You'd be amazed how much. I have a friend who think's Rush Limbaugh is hot.

I've known women (my friends) who would bang anything with money and or power. These guys had all the social skills of a slug, but just enough to attract a 24 year old who wants to social climb. The shooter didn't have been a virgin. I don't think he gave a damn about a relationship, so no looking for the perfect match. Sounded like he just wanted a warm body with the right bits.

The shooter had money and power. Extremely wealthy family and connections. Hollywood connections. Had this fool had a tooth pick of a clue stick how to related to the human race, he'd be rolling in money grubbing, social climbing women.

Of course, if he had his sights set on the women who already status and money, they don't need him. If I'm a hot looking trustfundarian, I wouldn't even consider a guy like the shooter. He has money, so do I. I think he's a mutant, and I can do better. He brings nothing to the party that want.

It may have been drug fueled. Even the mentally ill get dates. I'm Bipolar, never an issue. I've met schizophrenic men, who had wives and girlfriends. And these are men not high on the money/looks front.

He was an entitlement douche, who had no clue how to parlay his assets.

Waiting for the government to start cracking down who can legally own fire arms. Usually this starts up when a unmedicated mentally ill person going on a rampage. Be interesting to see if Autism gets shoved into that *you're too unstable to own anything dangerous* group.



Hopper
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25 May 2014, 7:03 am

Larsen80 wrote:
From his manifesto
Quote:
I questioned the very fabric of reality. Why did this all exist? I wondered. How did life come to be? What was the nature of reality? What was my place in all of it? There was no point to my life anymore. I was never going to lose my virginity. I was never going to get a girlfriend. Because girls are repulsed by me, I was never going to have children and pass on my genes. The only way that I could have been worthy enough to beautiful girls is if I become wealthy at a young age, and the faith I had in that happened had just been crushed. There was no hope left. The life I could have had ceased to exist. I will never have sex, never have love, never have children. I will never be a creator, but I could be a destroyer. Life had been cruel to me. The human species had rejected me all my life, despite the fact that I am the ideal, magnificent gentleman. Life itself is twisted and disgusting, I mused. Humans are brutal animals. If I cannot thrive among them, then I will destroy them all. I didn't want things to turn out this way. I wanted a happy, healthy life of love and sex. But if I'm unable to have such a life, then I will have no choice but to exact revenge on the society that denied it to me.


Clearly he was burdened with some heavy existentialist thoughts and didn't find any answers. Now he and his victims are dead so what does it matter. Well I still think it is fair to demand an answer on exactly he was supposed to DO to be socially accepted.


I doubt he looked very far or hard for answers. Some serious, solid thinking has been put into these matters from a variety of perspectives that he could have picked up and read. He was 'burdened' with an overwhelming sense of entitlement. That the world didn't conform to how he expected it to be was the cause of this thinking. He wouldn't have been happy with an answer that wasn't, 'no, you're right. You deserve everything you want, and the world and anyone in it that doesn't give it you should suffer'.

It depends into which society he wanted to be accepted. Cynical as I am, I would still hope not being a hateful entitled misogynistic egotistical turd would be a good start.


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Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


Lonermutant
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25 May 2014, 7:04 am

Tawaki wrote:
I've known women (my friends) who would bang anything with money and or power. These guys had all the social skills of a slug, but just enough to attract a 24 year old who wants to social climb. The shooter didn't have been a virgin. I don't think he gave a damn about a relationship, so no looking for the perfect match. Sounded like he just wanted a warm body with the right bits.

The shooter had money and power. Extremely wealthy family and connections. Hollywood connections. Had this fool had a tooth pick of a clue stick how to related to the human race, he'd be rolling in money grubbing, social climbing women.

Of course, if he had his sights set on the women who already status and money, they don't need him. If I'm a hot looking trustfundarian, I wouldn't even consider a guy like the shooter. He has money, so do I. I think he's a mutant, and I can do better. He brings nothing to the party that want.


I doubt that his father's money would have made him attractive to "golddiggers". They would still see him as a loser with no social skills and a lot of daddy's money. They would still prefer a man with a kind of "protective status" as well as money.



rickc77
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25 May 2014, 7:40 am

Being an Aspie, we think outside the box.

I suggest that this was WAY more than his frustration at trying to get laid. I am guessing he had issues with his mum (and dad) and found being the son of a famous director affected his ego (he sounded very fragile and lonely) He's obviously one of societies outcasts struggling to deal with his state of mind and decides one day to take action / revenge due to overwhelming loneliness, failure AND coming off his meds.

Going by his Youtube vid from 2 yrs ago, he was a tallented film maker and I bet he had a very lovely side to him.

Too easy to say it was his Aspergers and he's a loser.

God, all these Aspie killings is bad for our PR. Not that it could be much worse.

As my neighbour's mum who has cancer says.......The world is a beautiful place populated by mostly sh***y people.

Would have to agree.



Hopper
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25 May 2014, 9:21 am

I don't keep abreast of the US news/politics to that much detail. Has the possibility of 'arresting everyone on the spectrum' been at all floated by anyone who could be taken seriously? Because this strikes me as pretty paranoid.


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Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


CaptainTrips222
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25 May 2014, 9:38 am

Hopper wrote:
I don't keep abreast of the US news/politics to that much detail. Has the possibility of 'arresting everyone on the spectrum' been at all floated by anyone who could be taken seriously? Because this strikes me as pretty paranoid.


That's ridiculous. Life will go on, aspies will be aspies, NTs will be NTs, and we'll have another mass shooting every year or so, where people speculate the role of aspergers.



Niall
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25 May 2014, 9:41 am

NathanElwin wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Ghostgirl wrote:
Not to stir up the pot, but being that there has been some very high profile shootings linked to males with aspergers, should people with our condition be allowed to own guns.

I guess that's a question, sans the ? mark.
Allowed to own guns?
You know, there are probably some people that need an official diagnosis that are reluctant to get one because of this mentality.

It would, in any case, be unlikely to reduce the reaction rate (chemical metaphor).

Where I live in Georgia, guns are as plentiful as blades of grass, and nearly as easy to acquire.

I suppose one could, in theory, disarm the entire population, and have Nazi-esque Homeland Security troops marching through the streets, but as I understand it, a large percentage of the population (autism spectrum or not) would not wish to exist under those conditions.

--- Nathan


Groan. Where I come from it's next to impossible to obtain a firearm, and we don't have Nazi-esque troops marching through the streets. We have a problem with some right-wing f***heads (as you do in the US), but I haven't seen a firearm in years (I mean this literally).

About twenty years ago some nut with a gun shot up a primary school. This led to a massive clampdown on firearms. Our democracy (such as it is) hasn't suffered for it. Less of the logical leaps, please.


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CaptainTrips222
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25 May 2014, 9:46 am

Dillogic wrote:
Whilst there's some outliers (such as me and my ability to get the chicks), most of those with AS will be beyond hopeless to make friends and relations.

And it's understandable how it leads to someone becoming a group unto themselves and they blame an entire group for their medically caused failures. Yelling "misogynist" in this case doesn't help, nor is it the reason. And anyone labeling someone with an ASD such because they're disgruntled and venting due to not getting chicks/dudes is wrong -- they can't help it, literally.

This doesn't defend murder, but it's something people shouldn't overlook.

It's easy for therapists to offer advice, but they don't organize or actually do anything tangible for the high functioning folk.

Organizing a date [or dates] for the guy way back may have prevented it.


I honestly don't know how much organizing dates for anybody would help. It doesn't teach them how to approach people and how to maintain that connection. It might build their confidence, like training wheels. Who knows.

But I absolutely agree with one thing you said; we're not doing NEARLY enough for high functioning individuals. They're not helped by the system, and they damn sure aren't helped by their peers. We can't go on like this in pitch black, midnight ignorance and expect them to just suffer without acting out. If we let society grind them up and spit them out, we're asking for it. People don't like to think that others are in bad situations, so they'll do anything to turn a blind eye to it, and lazily refuse to deal. Lets not do this anymore.



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25 May 2014, 11:48 am

I think it's understandable to worry about the cultural perceptions of people on the spectrum, I don't want to be associated with deranged killers either. I don't want to be ostracized.

Cops treating me like **** isn't anything new. I wouldn't worry too much about the government rounding you up for it and this is from somebody that really doesn't trust the government either, schizophrenics aren't being interned and people have wrongly associated them with violent behavior for a long time now.



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25 May 2014, 11:57 am

anna-banana wrote:
Saying that organising a date for him early on could've prevented it sounds a bit like blaming women for what he did, actually.

Having sexual partners, dating and love are not a human right. This dude was a spoilt rich white entitled as*hole filled with hate, ie. the ultimate undesirable.


Not really, and I'm sure there would be women out there who would have dated him, possibly ones with similar social problems. I'd blame his ASD for what he did if social isolation, lack of empathy (inability to care about the pain he caused to others), and social/emotional differences were the cause, in addition to useless therapy regarding the social aspects of autism. I'd say the same thing if he was female (hormone differences would be why men do these things compared to women who suffer the same ailments).

No, it's not, but "we" can help people who want such who also have a medical condition that takes away their ability to do it on their own. The same for schooling and employment -- neither are a "human right", but we help people find such who have medical conditions all the same if they want it and are able.

I wouldn't judge his personality based on when he was at his lowest. Any hate and homicidal behavior he had could have been due to years of social problems and the same festering underneath.

Naturally, he may have done it anyway, no matter what help he received. But we have his reason and know that he was in therapy -- some clues there.



TheRedPedant93
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25 May 2014, 12:37 pm

Great...It's Adam Lanza all over again (just found out the news).

I sincerely hope that this scumbag was misdiagnosed, whether or not he had been growing up with an enduringly convoluted childhood it simply does not serve as an excuse for the condemnatory actions he has committed. Narcissistic psychopaths who uphold a superiority complex such as his own disreputable self DO NOT represent us. This will ineluctably exacerbate the erroneous cultural perspectives of autistic people by means of reinforcement in reflection with the Sandy Hook massacre.


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25 May 2014, 1:14 pm

TheRedPedant93 wrote:
Great...It's Adam Lanza all over again (just found out the news).

I sincerely hope that this scumbag was misdiagnosed


I don't think he was. I have a feeling he really was on the spectrum, but you're right that he doesn't represent how aspies think and behave. The damage is done, though. His own parent stated he had aspergers, so it's above the rumor stage.