U.S to normalize relations with Cuba

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lifelover94
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Fnord
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18 Dec 2014, 9:14 am

Big yawn.

50 years of embargoes have not worked. Espionage has not worked. Even electing Cuban exiles to Congress has not worked. This much is obvious.

So now we can get Cuban rum and cigars without having to smuggle them in or route them through another country. So now people who want to emigrate from Cuba to America can just buy a ticket instead of swimming 90 miles through shark-infested waters. So now American can use their credit cards to buy Cuban souveniers (hand-made in China, no doubt).

Does it really matter, one way or the other?


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18 Dec 2014, 11:50 am

This is not a good thing, but what else can you expect from the Communist-In-Chief?


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18 Dec 2014, 12:08 pm

I've been curious what Fidel Castro thinks of it. He has supposedly not voiced an opinion on it yet. I wonder if Raul Castro (his younger brother) conferred with him about it first, or if this is his own show.

At 88, and in frail health, Fidel is now officially retired from all offices, but still wields a lot of influence in Cuba.

Image



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18 Dec 2014, 12:30 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
I've been curious what Fidel Castro thinks of it. He has supposedly not voiced an opinion on it yet.

This is what happened the last time they let him out of his straitjacket.

Quote:
Former Cuban leader Fidel Castro has claimed that Israel and the United States are behind the creation of the Isis (now known as the Islamic State) terror group, according to local media reports. In a piece written for official Cuban state media, Castro accuses Israel's intelligence agency, Mossad, and US Senator John McCain of conspiring to create the IS.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/former-cuba-leader-fidel-castro-says-israel-us-144839682.html



andrethemoogle
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18 Dec 2014, 12:32 pm

FracturedRocket wrote:
This is not a good thing, but what else can you expect from the Communist-In-Chief?


How is this not a good thing? The USA is establishing a friendly relationship with another country that poses zero threat (from what I can tell). Also, please do tell, how exactly is Obama a communist?

Then again, I'm just a Canadian who doesn't get American politics and the hate for Obama.



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18 Dec 2014, 12:59 pm

andrethemoogle wrote:
FracturedRocket wrote:
This is not a good thing, but what else can you expect from the Communist-In-Chief?


How is this not a good thing? The USA is establishing a friendly relationship with another country that poses zero threat (from what I can tell). Also, please do tell, how exactly is Obama a communist?

Then again, I'm just a Canadian who doesn't get American politics and the hate for Obama.


It's not because you're Canadian, it's because there's nothing in that void to understand. Obama is center-right, judging by the tremendous number of military deployments he's approved. McCarthyism ballooned into hatred towards everything except laissez-faire free marketry when it should have been deservedly ignored as the hyper-partisan witch hunt of a publicity hungry alcoholic madman.

This is a great thing. Both countries need the trade, and I've wanted to visit Cuba almost half my life. Che did a lot of good before the CIA murdered him. His stateside character assasinations are living proof. Hell, Osama Bin Laden was a small time Sheikh building roads and schools before Desert Storm.


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18 Dec 2014, 4:15 pm

FracturedRocket wrote:
This is not a good thing, but what else can you expect from the Communist-In-Chief?


Communist-In-Chief? I thought you people were accusing the President of being a secret Muslim.


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18 Dec 2014, 5:31 pm

Not a communist, nor a muslim, it turns out. They recently found a statue of Obama on Mars.



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18 Dec 2014, 7:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
FracturedRocket wrote:
This is not a good thing, but what else can you expect from the Communist-In-Chief?
Communist-In-Chief? I thought you people were accusing the President of being a secret Muslim.
That's because even they know that burning a cross on the White House lawn is a "Big No-No", and calling Mr. Obama names like "Commie" or "Jihadist" won't get them in so much trouble.


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18 Dec 2014, 9:01 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Not a communist, nor a muslim, it turns out. They recently found a statue of Obama on Mars.



Look at it from a different angle, and I'd guess that it would look like any other rock.


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18 Dec 2014, 9:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
FracturedRocket wrote:
This is not a good thing, but what else can you expect from the Communist-In-Chief?
Communist-In-Chief? I thought you people were accusing the President of being a secret Muslim.
That's because even they know that burning a cross on the White House lawn is a "Big No-No", and calling Mr. Obama names like "Commie" or "Jihadist" won't get them in so much trouble.


And don't forget the accusations that he's the Anti-Christ.


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18 Dec 2014, 9:36 pm

The embargo has effectively preserved Cuba as a communist state, I'd actually be worried if I was the Castro's. The patented US-backed color-revolution will happen sooner or later. It's dumb tho, we can't pretend like the US cares about human rights and we have close relationships with dictatorships in China and Saudi Arabia.



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18 Dec 2014, 9:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
Big yawn.

50 years of embargoes have not worked. Espionage has not worked. Even electing Cuban exiles to Congress has not worked. This much is obvious.

So now we can get Cuban rum and cigars without having to smuggle them in or route them through another country. So now people who want to emigrate from Cuba to America can just buy a ticket instead of swimming 90 miles through shark-infested waters. So now American can use their credit cards to buy Cuban souveniers (hand-made in China, no doubt).

Does it really matter, one way or the other?


I have a lot of respect for the Cubans. I mean, American cars of the 50s were well made, but when was the last time you saw 1950s cars running around your city, if you're in America? You might see somebody's labor of love drive by every so often, but Cuba has an estimated 60,000 old US cars. Also, I once saw a video of the studios and control rooms of Radio Havana Cuba, and they have 50+ year old Soviet made equipment that still works. We all know how awful Russian made stuff is, but they keep it working.

They even managed to deal with being cut off from Russian oil after the fall of the USSR. Cuban agriculture had been highly mechanized with the goal of producing sugar and tobacco for the Comecon Bloc, but the Cubans managed to adjust to producing much of their island's food supply, which earlier had been full of imports. They went through a period of hunger in the 90s, but managed to get through it without their society collapsing. They tore up parking lots and planted gardens.

Cubans are the people that Americans wish they could be--self-reliant and innovative. So they want a semi-communist govt, so what, they are a sovereign nation with self-determination and can have whatever form of govt they so desire, and the ones who were unhappy fled ages ago. Cubans aren't going to topple their system anytime soon. The aging Cuban expats in Miami have been allowed to run America's position towards Cuba for way too long. Most of the people involved in the old Cold War spats are long dead, as Obama noted. There is no sense in leaving a failed embargo in place to please Ted Cruz and his rabid followers.



pezar
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18 Dec 2014, 9:46 pm

Jacoby wrote:
The embargo has effectively preserved Cuba as a communist state, I'd actually be worried if I was the Castro's. The patented US-backed color-revolution will happen sooner or later. It's dumb tho, we can't pretend like the US cares about human rights and we have close relationships with dictatorships in China and Saudi Arabia.


I doubt it. Raul Castro has gradually been liberalizing the country. Limited private enterprise is permitted now, and Radio Havana Cuba is less shrill and is more focused on Latin American news rather than being a de facto anti-US clandestine. Although now that the Cuban Five have been freed, I wonder what the hell they'll fill time with now. Maybe they'll play more Cuban jazz, already they devote their entire Sunday night broadcast to it.



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18 Dec 2014, 10:11 pm

pezar wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The embargo has effectively preserved Cuba as a communist state, I'd actually be worried if I was the Castro's. The patented US-backed color-revolution will happen sooner or later. It's dumb tho, we can't pretend like the US cares about human rights and we have close relationships with dictatorships in China and Saudi Arabia.


I doubt it. Raul Castro has gradually been liberalizing the country. Limited private enterprise is permitted now, and Radio Havana Cuba is less shrill and is more focused on Latin American news rather than being a de facto anti-US clandestine. Although now that the Cuban Five have been freed, I wonder what the hell they'll fill time with now. Maybe they'll play more Cuban jazz, already they devote their entire Sunday night broadcast to it.


the same could of be said about Gaddafi, regime change is always in the US's priorities when it comes to its enemies even if they want normalization.