Freddie Gray----Latest Developments in Investigation.....

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Dillogic
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02 May 2015, 9:56 pm

They probably had justification to pursue (looking at an officer and running is suspect), and if he resisted that (didn't yield), then they would have had justification to arrest. So, the prosecutor is wrong in that case.

The knife is a valid complaint against the police, though not against the arrest itself (too easy to argue that they mistook it for an illegal knife anyway, so you chalk it up to an innocent mistake).

For the serious stuff:

The prosecution will need to show:

-the police failed to restrain Gray in the wagon, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and the murder charge)
-the driver intentionally drove in a way to cause potentially life threatening injury to Gray (the murder charge)
-officers knew Gray was injured and refused aid him, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and murder)

The prosecution will have a hard case here (just going by what's been released), especially with the murder one. Manslaughter with failing to restrain Gray would be the easiest, though evidence [or a lack thereof] could easily throw that charge out.



beneficii
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03 May 2015, 6:44 am

I'd be careful to avoid assumptions and wait for the evidence to be released at trial.

Also, one judge has already established probably cause for the officers' arrests. Otherwise, issuing the arrest warrants would have been illegal under the 4th amendment.


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03 May 2015, 12:33 pm

Dillogic wrote:
They probably had justification to pursue (looking at an officer and running is suspect), and if he resisted that (didn't yield), then they would have had justification to arrest. So, the prosecutor is wrong in that case.

The knife is a valid complaint against the police, though not against the arrest itself (too easy to argue that they mistook it for an illegal knife anyway, so you chalk it up to an innocent mistake).

For the serious stuff:

The prosecution will need to show:

-the police failed to restrain Gray in the wagon, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and the murder charge)
-the driver intentionally drove in a way to cause potentially life threatening injury to Gray (the murder charge)
-officers knew Gray was injured and refused aid him, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and murder)

The prosecution will have a hard case here (just going by what's been released), especially with the murder one. Manslaughter with failing to restrain Gray would be the easiest, though evidence [or a lack thereof] could easily throw that charge out.


I think they can chase after him if he is running away, but since they actually arrested him they would have to suspect him of committing a crime. I think that the false imprisonment charges will probably stick. I think they would have been smarter to charge them with negligent homicide because it seems like the argument is that he died because of their negligence. I don't think the arresting officers will be convicted of the assault charges because they would have to prove that his injuries were caused by them beating him up rather than him being injured because of not being restrained. I think they will probably get a conviction on the manslaughter charges



ASPartOfMe
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03 May 2015, 2:24 pm

Don't forget Jury nullification in which the jury might decide even IF the evidence is not beyond a reasonable doubt to convict the officers because 1. To get even for past decades of police "getting away with murder" 2. Fear of personal safety 3. Six officers wrongly convicted is the lesser of two evils compared to a worse riot.


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androbot01
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03 May 2015, 4:02 pm

Dillogic wrote:
-the police failed to restrain Gray in the wagon, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and the murder charge)
-the driver intentionally drove in a way to cause potentially life threatening injury to Gray (the murder charge)
-officers knew Gray was injured and refused aid him, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and murder)

I think the damage was done before they put him in the van. Whether restrained or not, his injuries (from the officers breaking his neck) were probably life threatening.



wowiexist
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03 May 2015, 4:58 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
-the police failed to restrain Gray in the wagon, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and the murder charge)
-the driver intentionally drove in a way to cause potentially life threatening injury to Gray (the murder charge)
-officers knew Gray was injured and refused aid him, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and murder)

I think the damage was done before they put him in the van. Whether restrained or not, his injuries (from the officers breaking his neck) were probably life threatening.


I think that they don't think that they can prove when he received the injuries so they are putting more concentration on the fact that they neglected to get him medical attention.



androbot01
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03 May 2015, 5:41 pm

wowiexist wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
-the police failed to restrain Gray in the wagon, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and the murder charge)
-the driver intentionally drove in a way to cause potentially life threatening injury to Gray (the murder charge)
-officers knew Gray was injured and refused aid him, whether maliciously or out of negligence (manslaughter and murder)

I think the damage was done before they put him in the van. Whether restrained or not, his injuries (from the officers breaking his neck) were probably life threatening.


I think that they don't think that they can prove when he received the injuries so they are putting more concentration on the fact that they neglected to get him medical attention.


Maybe they have have a better chance that way.



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03 May 2015, 6:04 pm

Thanks, everybody for thinking, considering, and posting!!

I have been, all-along, ALSO thinking he received his injury BEFORE he even got in the van, because of the way he SCREAMED, when they picked him up, off the ground. Also, because of the way his legs didn't seem to be working----grant it, that's a very common way for criminals to act, though (refusing to walk), but..... Also, when he went to get in the van, he didn't seem to be able to lift his legs, and ended-up with the top part of him bent-over to the floor of the van. They (the reporters) have since said that a medical person said if he had been hurt, BEFORE the van ride, he wouldn't have been able to walk / stand, etc.----and, they said he moved his head, and he wouldn't have been able to do that. Doctors can be wrong!! I knew someone who walked-around, for a WEEK, on a broken ankle, for instance----and, when she had called the doctor, he said she wouldn't have been able to walk on it, if it was broken. Also, Freddie didn't stand of his own volition----they set him on his feet. Also, I don't think he turned his head----his head seemed to be bent (cocked to one side) at a funny angle.

A young woman (white) has come-forward telling about HER arrest / ride to lock-up, and she said she was being tossed all over the place, back there----she said she got the feeling that they were DELIBERATELY driving roughly (abrupt stops, sharp turns, etc.), and she's got pictures of all her bruises, etc., and has a lawsuit, pending, against them.

The unrest seems to be winding-down..... There were some arrests, last night----and, the cops had to use pepper-spray, at-one-point.....

Today, the curfew has been lifted, and the National Guard is packin'-up and goin' home!





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beneficii
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03 May 2015, 7:11 pm

This is a pretty well-balanced article that gives different perspectives:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/20 ... lice-think

My view: There appears to be probable cause to charge the officers and try them, but of course the officers are innocent until proven guilty.


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05 May 2015, 4:33 pm

America is not the only place where police brutality/racism is causing riots
http://time.com/3845765/israel-ethiopian-police-brutality-protest/?xid=newsletter-brief


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06 May 2015, 8:30 am

I ventured downtown, yesterday----everything is so very sad-looking----all boarded-up, from the fires and vandalism----SOOOO sad.....











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08 May 2015, 5:50 am

There were 9 shootings, last night----2 dead.

The DOJ is launching an investigation of the BPD (Baltimore Police Department).











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Campin_Cat
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08 May 2015, 9:51 am

The DOJ (Department Of Justice), Loretta Lynch, just held a news conference.....

The DOJ is opening an investigation, TODAY, to determine if the BPD engages in rough handling of prisoners (excessive force, etc.); and to determine if they violated the Constitution, and civil rights.

".....whether there are systemic violations of the Constitution or federal law by officers of BPD. The investigation will focus on BPD's use of force -- including deadly force -- and its stops, searches and arrests, as well as whether there is a pattern or practice of discriminatory policing."

One of the major hopes of the investigation is that it will increase trust between the police and the community.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/justice-department-to-investigate-baltimore-police-department/32880128






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cecilfienkelstien
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08 May 2015, 9:59 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
The DOJ (Department Of Justice), Loretta Lynch, just held a news conference.....

The DOJ is opening an investigation, TODAY, to determine if the BPD engages in rough handling of prisoners (excessive force, etc.); and to determine if they violated the Constitution, and civil rights.

".....whether there are systemic violations of the Constitution or federal law by officers of BPD. The investigation will focus on BPD's use of force -- including deadly force -- and its stops, searches and arrests, as well as whether there is a pattern or practice of discriminatory policing."

One of the major hopes of the investigation is that it will increase trust between the police and the community.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/justice-department-to-investigate-baltimore-police-department/32880128

I am glad they are doing an investigation. I have not been to Baltimore but I have heard it is one of Americas great cities. I want to go their someday.


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09 May 2015, 5:24 am

cecilfienkelstien wrote:
... I have not been to Baltimore but I have heard it is one of Americas great cities. ...

Thankyou!

The 6 cops want the State's Attorney to recuse herself because of multiple conflicts of interest: prosecuting for political gain, personal ties between prosecutor & media, independent investigation, financial interest of Gray's family attorney, and the pending civil claim against Mosby and her office.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/Motion-filed-to-have-Marilyn-Mosby-recuse-herself/32895776

They also want a probe into the Mayor's Practices and Policies.

Another 10 were shot - 3 killed.....





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09 May 2015, 11:59 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
I ventured downtown, yesterday----everything is so very sad-looking----all boarded-up, from the fires and vandalism----SOOOO sad.....

That's how it looked when I was there 2 years ago.


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