Freddie Gray----Latest Developments in Investigation.....

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pezar
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28 Apr 2015, 10:00 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Knowing somebody that worked with in the police department, I can tell that roughly 50% of cops are probably taking "supplements" that would get them banned from physical competition if they were to be tested. Congress cares people that play a game but not people that are given the responsibility to protect and serve kind of like how the one stat the FBI doesn't track is how many LEO-caused fatalities there are in any given year. It doesn't surprise me one bit when one of these meatheads rages on somebody.


"Roid rage" is likely responsible for a LOT of excessive force incidents. Steroid junkies will get in that rage and literally cannot stop, they will just beat and beat and beat. They will beat a guy past the point where the perp is unable to resist, but even though the guy is limp and unresponsive they will keep beating him because they are blinded by roid rage, the cops brains will shut off and the rage takes control. It's really scary, and roids are really difficult to test for. A dirty cop is one thing, but roid rage is a completely different league. And then you have the fact that roid junkies are really strong because of artificial bulk, and you have a situation where a roid junkie can easily kill a guy.



Dillogic
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28 Apr 2015, 10:24 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I just have a hard time believing that those injuries could occur unintentionally using normal police procedure, not even with your adrenaline pumping.


I can see someone falling and hitting their neck on a gutter/curb, either due to running and tripping, or being tackled.

It's no different than people falling over and breaking something.

This might not have been the cause, but I don't see it as an unrealistic scenario.



Jacoby
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28 Apr 2015, 10:33 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I just have a hard time believing that those injuries could occur unintentionally using normal police procedure, not even with your adrenaline pumping.


I can see someone falling and hitting their neck on a gutter/curb, either due to running and tripping, or being tackled.

It's no different than people falling over and breaking something.

This might not have been the cause, but I don't see it as an unrealistic scenario.


I'm not even sure a clothesline from an NFL LBer running full speed at you would do what they did to this man and besides it's still murder since they left this man to die and did not get him medical attention. The idea that these cops somehow accidentally crushed this guy's larynx and snapped his spine without noticing that he needed medical attention ASAP is not reasonable in my opinion.



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28 Apr 2015, 10:39 pm

pezar wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Knowing somebody that worked with in the police department, I can tell that roughly 50% of cops are probably taking "supplements" that would get them banned from physical competition if they were to be tested. Congress cares people that play a game but not people that are given the responsibility to protect and serve kind of like how the one stat the FBI doesn't track is how many LEO-caused fatalities there are in any given year. It doesn't surprise me one bit when one of these meatheads rages on somebody.


"Roid rage" is likely responsible for a LOT of excessive force incidents. Steroid junkies will get in that rage and literally cannot stop, they will just beat and beat and beat. They will beat a guy past the point where the perp is unable to resist, but even though the guy is limp and unresponsive they will keep beating him because they are blinded by roid rage, the cops brains will shut off and the rage takes control. It's really scary, and roids are really difficult to test for. A dirty cop is one thing, but roid rage is a completely different league. And then you have the fact that roid junkies are really strong because of artificial bulk, and you have a situation where a roid junkie can easily kill a guy.


It definitely plays a factor and then you add in the fact I think the very nature of the job lends itself to cruelty and excessive force as that is just human nature when you give somebody authority over another as shown in the Stanford Prison Experiment. There is a culture of unaccountability, cops don't snitch on cops and will protect bad ones to the point that its much weirder to find one good cop than it is to point out the bad ones. Cop culture needs to change, the laws need to change, they need to accountable for their actions, and the state needs to own up to the laws it has on its books that it asks these people uphold instead of shifting the blame to something purely racial. No, the problem isn't a few bad apples but are system that is corrupt to its core.



Dillogic
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28 Apr 2015, 11:22 pm

Jacoby wrote:
The idea that these cops somehow accidentally crushed this guy's larynx and snapped his spine without noticing that he needed medical attention ASAP is not reasonable in my opinion.


I can see how they may have overlooked, unintentionally, any wound the suspect may have suffered. In the video, he was clearly in pain (clearly to me, anyway), though the extent of which is hard to determine.

Doctors can make mistakes and overlook lethal injury, so it can go without saying that a police officer could. Especially if he broke his neck when falling over, or it happened without direct physical contact with the neck area by an officer.

Obviously, if it's procedure to keep an eye on a suspect that's injured, and they didn't do that, then you have negligence, though that's not murder itself.

Remember, you have to show beyond reasonable doubt that the officers intended to murder the suspect.



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28 Apr 2015, 11:35 pm

I feel like I am living in the riot version of the movie "Groundhog Day"

Long hot summer of 1967
King assassination riots
1965 Watts riots
1992 Los Angeles riots


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29 Apr 2015, 9:55 am

Things went pretty well, last night----there were only 10 arrests (7, riot related). There was still some looting, but no fires. Some 200 people were out, after curfew (curfew is for EVERYBODY----regardless of age). At 10pm (the start of curfew), people threw rocks at police; at 10:30, tear gas was used by the police. One guy that was arrested had a small axe in his underwear. There is 6 more days of curfew----so, THROUGH the weekend; which is GOOD, IMO.

Yesterday, during the day, there were hundreds of people, protesting, PEACEFULLY----it had gotten back to what it was before all of this destruction----there was a marching band, dancers, cheerleaders, 300-Man March, preaching, etc.





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29 Apr 2015, 4:37 pm

Oh wow Campin Cat...I didn't realize you were living in the midst of all this! I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. Glad things are calming down now. :heart:



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29 Apr 2015, 8:00 pm

Things getting dicey in lower Manhattan. Holland Tunnel, West Side Highway Shut down, some bottles thrown at police
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/04/29/mayor-de-blasio-nyc-protest-baltimore/


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29 Apr 2015, 10:29 pm

Over 100 arrests in NYC protests tonight. Same link as above


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30 Apr 2015, 6:26 am

Thanks, Dianthus----and, thanks to everyone who has sent me PMs, showing their concern (and they say ASDers are unfeeling----my own siblings haven't asked me, how things are)! !

Thanks, ASPartOfMe for posting / commenting on that link. I was shocked, really, that there have been reports of rallies / protests in OTHER cities, who were showing their support for Baltimore----Washington, D.C., New York, Boston, Minneapolis, "and other cities across the country"----and then, the troubles (rioting, arrests, etc.), as a result. I don't think I remember hearing of this, in regard to Ferguson----maybe N.Y. and D.C., but.....

Anyway, in regard to the Freddie Gray investigation: The police are NOW saying, that it's possible that Freddie caused this damage to HIMSELF, because he was banging his head against the van wall, INSIDE the van----ARE YOU KIDDING ME----INEXCUSABLE!! !! The coroner said that Freddie Gray had only ONE injury----broken neck / damaged spine----NO injury, that would be suffered from banging one's head, against a van wall.

One thing that's still not clear to me, is that once they began their journey to the police station, they stopped and put shackles on Freddie. A police officer said they do that when a prisoner is rowdy.....? Also, they picked-up another person, and put him in the back with Freddie, and that prisoner said Freddie was still----but, I don't know if the shackles were already ON Freddie, or not. (There were TWO prisoners in the back with Freddie----ONE said he banged his head on the van; the OTHER one said he was quiet. That situation is ALSO not clear to me----I'm thinking there was already someone in the van, when they put Freddie in; then, they picked-up another one.)

Anyway, last night in Baltimore, was fairly quiet. A fight broke-out----but, it was between brothers (REAL brothers----not, "brothas"). It seems that one brother was trying to get the other one to go home, as it was 10pm; and, apparently, the other brother didn't like being told what to do. There were another 10 arrests, and others (over 100, that were arrested during the riots) were released, WITHOUT charges, and told that their charging papers would be sent to them, in the mail. HUH? There was a fire----but, it is yet unknown if it had anything to do, with the civil unrest.





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Dillogic
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30 Apr 2015, 6:59 am

It's possible that he broke his own neck trying to rough himself up in a moving car.

Jumping into the side of a wall headfirst (head down) can break your neck. It's probably more likely in that circumstance that fracturing your skull as the impact can be spread out over the entirety of the part hitting the wall, but your spine can still flex and fracture if enough force is applied.

It's plausible.

More plausible than murder IMO (I'd put it around equal possibility with accidental death during the arrest).



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30 Apr 2015, 7:57 am

link to reports

Police brutality is neither rare nor unusual.


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30 Apr 2015, 2:22 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Thanks, Dianthus----and, thanks to everyone who has sent me PMs, showing their concern (and they say ASDers are unfeeling----my own siblings haven't asked me, how things are)! !

Thanks, ASPartOfMe for posting / commenting on that link. I was shocked, really, that there have been reports of rallies / protests in OTHER cities, who were showing their support for Baltimore----Washington, D.C., New York, Boston, Minneapolis, "and other cities across the country"----and then, the troubles (rioting, arrests, etc.), as a result. I don't think I remember hearing of this, in regard to Ferguson----maybe N.Y. and D.C., but.....


To change the subject a bit what was very noticeable to me is that the peaceful protesters do not let the rioters define them and immediately continued their protests. So opposite to here where when an Autistic or a person described as autistic publicly does something bad we (and that means me at times also) A. Panic OMG they are going all think we are Elliot Rodgers mass killers or trendy "faking it" Seinfeld(not comment on Sienfeld's neurology just perceptions) B. Internalize the bad stereotypes.


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30 Apr 2015, 7:19 pm

Dillogic wrote:
It's possible that he broke his own neck trying to rough himself up in a moving car.

Jumping into the side of a wall headfirst (head down) can break your neck. It's probably more likely in that circumstance that fracturing your skull as the impact can be spread out over the entirety of the part hitting the wall, but your spine can still flex and fracture if enough force is applied.

It's plausible.

More plausible than murder IMO (I'd put it around equal possibility with accidental death during the arrest).


There's a point at which skepticism becomes stubborn refusal to acknowledge facts we don't like; you're well past that point.


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30 Apr 2015, 7:56 pm

Dox47 wrote:
There's a point at which skepticism becomes stubborn refusal to acknowledge facts we don't like; you're well past that point.


How so?

It's known that people take a fall to win settlements, whether in a criminal or civil arena.

It's known that people die by accident, i.e., a rough take down (that's not murder, just FYI and all).

Both can end up with someone dying, and both are possible (I put them equal here). It could be the police or suspect's fault. That's not bias, and the facts [so far] can support either one.

Do you mean murder?

That is possible, but I don't see murder in this case unless that can be proven beyond reasonable doubt (people don't murder others unless they have a reason, and if someone murders another because their authority isn't being respected, then it's more than likely they have a history of this; it doesn't matter if it's a police officer or a civilian. People aren't murdered in a vacuum), and it's the least likely scenario.