Appalled By How Cop Handles Teenage Girl!

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Dillogic
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10 Jun 2015, 12:24 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
How can you compare it to what you and your sister do when you are both willing participants and have equal input into what is happening?

What he should have done is let the other cops handle it.


Simple.

It's a comparison of force being used. No less that a brother and sister playing.

So, you assume another officer would have been better if she was resisting in the same way? Two officers would have been better, but they would have put her on the ground in the same way until she calmed down.

It's pure speculation that anyone else would have done a more gentle looking take down.



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10 Jun 2015, 12:29 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Let's assume she was the aggressor (for which there is no evidence.) Let's say she kicked him. Now, as a grown man, if you were in such a gathering and a girl younger than you kicked you. What would you do?


Aggressor doesn't matter here, as he was restraining her, not defending himself. Police can restrain you for millions of reasons that don't involve you attacking them, and if you resist it, they have to use more force.

You didn't answer. If you were tasked with restraining this teenager (putting in cuffs or similar), how would you do it (she's actively resisting it too)?

I would defend myself if a teenager kicked me, and it'd be far more violent than what this officer did (kicking is assault and battery).



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10 Jun 2015, 12:39 pm

Dillogic wrote:
You didn't answer. If you were tasked with restraining this teenager (putting in cuffs or similar), how would you do it?

If a 14 year old girl kicked me at a pool party, I would adopt a defensive posture and talk to her. It's moot for me though as I am an old woman and could easily be taken down by a 14 year old girl.

Dillogic wrote:
I would defend myself if a teenager kicked me, and it'd be far more violent than what this officer did (kicking is assault and battery).

Specifically a teenage girl. If a boy did so at that age, you'd have to act in kind.
My point is that he didn't need to resort to force. Perhaps they should teach communication skills in police academies, as words are a powerful tool. As are images. To rely solely on force in this situation is lazy.



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10 Jun 2015, 12:48 pm

If a teen started attacking me, I would fight back in self defense. Most teens are the size of an adult so they would be my size or bigger. I doubt I would be able to restrain them and I doubt having a talk with them would work because I would be fighting to get away.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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10 Jun 2015, 12:59 pm

Dillogic wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
How can you compare it to what you and your sister do when you are both willing participants and have equal input into what is happening?

What he should have done is let the other cops handle it.


Simple.

It's a comparison of force being used. No less that a brother and sister playing.

So, you assume another officer would have been better if she was resisting in the same way? Two officers would have been better, but they would have put her on the ground in the same way until she calmed down.

It's pure speculation that anyone else would have done a more gentle looking take down.


Actually it was worse because this was not playing, the cop was angry and he could have seriously injured her and as I know from my own neighborhood, where a death occurred in a similar situation, it is easy to press the knees into someone without looking like much force is being used when it actually is, and an angry cop is more likely to grind down and apply pressure just because he's pissed off. Remember last time you were pissed off, I mean really mad about something? Can't you remember clinching your teeth and wanting to push the ground away with your feet or push something with all your might using your hands and arms? Most of us know that feeling. When dealing with the living, it's dangerous and counter productive to enter that state.

From what appears on the video, the other officers were in better control of the situation and could have easily dealt with her.



Dantac
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10 Jun 2015, 1:04 pm

androbot01 wrote:
If a 14 year old girl kicked me at a pool party, I would adopt a defensive posture and talk to her. It's moot for me though as I am an old woman and could easily be taken down by a 14 year old girl.
...
Specifically a teenage girl. If a boy did so at that age, you'd have to act in kind.
My point is that he didn't need to resort to force. Perhaps they should teach communication skills in police academies, as words are a powerful tool. As are images. To rely solely on force in this situation is lazy.


Actually, he did and was right to use force. You are conveniently forgetting the context of the situation. This is not a girl walking in a yard on a calm and peaceful day, its a teenager in the middle of a situation that had been growing out of control as more teens arrive and more fights and shouting matches broke out. How many teens did you see in that video running all over the place? How many did you see walking near the cops even though they were being told (shouted at actually) to walk away or sit. Witnesses have said this girl had been told multiple times to leave or sit and she chose not to.

Its a potential mob situation. If the mob does not follow the instructions of the police then force needs to be used to stop it from escalating out of control. Its a matter of establishing authority over a large group not a few individuals you can ask to gather around in a magic circle to have a heart to heart chat. The worst thing you do when a large crowd is rowdy is start with 'please' because it only takes a single individual among that crowd to challenge your authority and walk over you and the crowd follows suit. On the other hand, if you command authority over that one individual the crowd will follow suit.

Finally, the officers there had been talking to the crowd for more than 15 minutes... it didn't work. They start handcuffing until they run out of handcuffs. That didn't work. They start telling these teens to disperse or sit down and that didn't work. Then for some reason which we do not yet know, this black teen says or does something to the officer as she's surrounded by other teens and he ends up getting her on the ground where she resists and the whole circus happened.



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10 Jun 2015, 1:06 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Dantac wrote:
As always, the media is blowing stuff out of proportion by not reporting the whole picture.....

Oh, thank GOD----another voice of reason----I'm on "Team Dillogic / Dantac"! !

I respect your opinion but it does cause me to feel a bit saddened. I can understand your reasoning and I am not disagreeing with the teens getting arrested, just the treatment of this particular small framed teenager, when you consider how the others were treated, and the fact she wasn't wearing a lot of clothing and she was scared.

"Small-framed", "female", "teenager", "bikini", has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING!! When somebody breaks the law----no matter if it seemed to be a minor infraction----they can EXPECT to be "taken-down" (meaning, "arrested").

Here's what I'm thinking..... There seems to be little, if NO, knowledge of "the culture"----meaning, large metropolitan city culture----around here. When one lives in the middle of this culture, as I do, one might have a completely different understanding of the situation----REGARDLESS, though----NONE OF US, WAS THERE!!


Dillogic noted they all scream they want their momma when they are getting arrested but if you review the footage, you can see no one was screaming that but her. The others weren't.

I don't feel Dillogic meant it, that way..... I'm thinking the way he meant "they all" was all who get arrested----NOT all who were in this particular incident----and I feel he's RIGHT!! I've seen TONS of these teens acting like LIONS, until someone stands-up to them----then, more-often-than-not, they back-down. Also, many of them are just "itchin'" to play the "Oh, woe is me" card----the "Look how I've been treated, so badly" card; so, if they look compliant, when the police come-around, that fits into their "plan", better----their plan of "Don't you feel sorry, for me?"----and, people (including people right here, on this thread) fall for it, HOOK, LINE AND SINKER----and, they KNOW it, TOO----that's why they keep shoveling it.....

I read the cop resigned and I agree with that decision.

You can't argue that he's just a cop making an arrest because there's footage of other cops, no one is complaining about them. No one is saying, hey, you can't arrest teenagers for causing a scene and criminal trespass. I have no problem with what I saw from any of the other cops.

Well, I think it was right here on this thread that someone posted that the cop who resigned was the FIRST to appear on the scene----and, that he had been there for, like, 15 minutes, before back-up arrived.....

IMO, he should've never gone into the situation, ALONE----but, he DID----and, as I have stated before, I have experience in being around these kids, and FIVE minutes is enough to make you want to hurt one of 'em!! NOT ALL OF THEM, of course----but, I'll tell ya what..... They're UNbeLIEVably RUDE, MEAN, ill-mannered, trashy (as in, using the eff-word with every other exhalation)----and, the GIRLS are about TEN TIMES worse than the BOYS----the girls are, SOME OF THEM, ABSOLUTE SNAKES----they treat the boys, TERRIBLY----it's no wonder the boys feel "beaten-down", have no self-esteem, feel stupid, feel like they're never any good, for anything.....


The one cop could have let his emotions run away with him. I know I would make a lousy cop because I feel my emotions would interfere at times, despite how I know it should never happen and I would be very regretful if they ever did because I know it's not ideal. Sometimes you have to look at yourself with honesty and say, you know what, I either need to control my emotions or find some other job. It's just facts.

Yes, I agree, that he probably let his emotions run-away, with him----AND, I thinking his EGO promoted him, to go at it, alone----but, again, there's something I don't think people are considering.....

Let's look at the cop's side of the story----and, let's just drop the "curtain", and bring "race" into it, as well.....

I've seen lots of people get arrested----if it's a WHITE cop arresting a BLACK person, the FIRST thing out of a black person's mouth, is almost ALWAYS: "Oh----you're doin' this, cuz I'm black". If it's a BLACK cop, and the person being arrested, is BLACK, the person says: "Why you wanna treat a brotha, like this?"

So, now imagine if every day, when you went to your job, you had people throwin' rocks / bricks / broken glass, etc. at you; you had people cussin' you, every other minute; you had people resisting arrest----sometimes by pullin' a knife, spittin' in your face----PUNCHING you in the face..... What if every day you went to work, people PROVOKED you, by saying things, like: "Don't be lookin' at ME----I ain't doin' nothin'!"; or, "Why you always wanna go accusin' people of somethin'?"; or, "What, a person can't walk-down the street, now"----in other words, just DARING you to question their actions.....

Now, let's give it a DIFFERENT demographic..... Let's say ALL of the people saying / doing those things were young WHITE Eminem-lookin' kids----every-single-time, every-single-day----don't you think you would start being, at least, WARY of that type of person?

Black people----SOME, NOT ALL----want everybody to say "Oh, it's SOOOO TERRIBLE that they're being treated, like that.....", but then they don't want to DO, anything to change it----they want it to ALWAYS be, "the other person's fault"----to relieve them of responsibility, cuz then they would have to WORK----just like ANYBODY does, in ANY kind of relationship----to IMPROVE----improve "whatever"----in THESE cases, cop relations.

Don't get me wrong----if I think someone should be defended, I'm "right there"----as I was with the Freddie Gray case, here, in Baltimore----but, I do NOT believe the kids in THIS case, should be defended!




androbot01
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10 Jun 2015, 1:15 pm

Dantac wrote:
Actually, he did and was right to use force. You are conveniently forgetting the context of the situation. This is not a girl walking in a yard on a calm and peaceful day, its a teenager in the middle of a situation that had been growing out of control as more teens arrive and more fights and shouting matches broke out. How many teens did you see in that video running all over the place? How many did you see walking near the cops even though they were being told (shouted at actually) to walk away or sit. Witnesses have said this girl had been told multiple times to leave or sit and she chose not to.

I'm not sure we're watching the same video. I did not see anyone in that video doing anything other than enjoying a beautiful day. Whatever altercation had caused the police to be called had clearly ended. There was no situation other than the police harassing black kids.
Quote:
Its a potential mob situation. If the mob does not follow the instructions of the police then force needs to be used to stop it from escalating out of control. Its a matter of establishing authority over a large group not a few individuals you can ask to gather around in a magic circle to have a heart to heart chat. The worst thing you do when a large crowd is rowdy is start with 'please' because it only takes a single individual among that crowd to challenge your authority and walk over you and the crowd follows suit. On the other hand, if you command authority over that one individual the crowd will follow suit.

A potential mob situation? Again, must be a different video.

Quote:
Finally, the officers there had been talking to the crowd for more than 15 minutes... it didn't work. They start handcuffing until they run out of handcuffs. That didn't work. They start telling these teens to disperse or sit down and that didn't work. Then for some reason which we do not yet know, this black teen says or does something to the officer as she's surrounded by other teens and he ends up getting her on the ground where she resists and the whole circus happened.

Yeah, that didn't work so well either.



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10 Jun 2015, 1:38 pm

Amusing Huffington Post Article

The plot thickens

International Business Times

Quote:
David Eric Casebolt, a veteran with the McKinney Police Department, was among at least three officers involved in a traffic incident in April 2007 that allegedly escalated to a “visual body cavity search.” The confrontation culminated in the arrest and drug conviction of a motorist named Albert Earl Brown Jr., who claimed in court papers that he was set up.

According to Brown’s lawsuit, Casebolt allegedly approached his parked vehicle, made comments about his clothes and the white female passengers he was with, and pulled down Brown’s pants to conduct a forcible search while another officer, Lee Keith, grabbed his head and slammed his face into the hood of the car with “intent to cause bodily harm.”



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10 Jun 2015, 2:00 pm

What's also interesting, is when do people allow for trespassing to be deemed as acceptable, and how is one supposed to remove them from your premises when it's unacceptable?

Because, there's far more than "a rough looking police officer manhandling a teen" at stake here when we're dealing with national and worldwide exposure.

Sometimes, you embolden what you weren't intending to.



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10 Jun 2015, 2:04 pm

Dillogic wrote:
What's also interesting, is when do people allow for trespassing to be deemed as acceptable, and how is one supposed to remove them from your premises when it's unacceptable?

Because, there's far more than "a rough looking police officer manhandling a teen" at stake here when we're dealing with national and worldwide exposure.

Sometimes, you embolden what you weren't intending to.


Quit trying to change the subject. Police brutality is a major problem in this country.


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10 Jun 2015, 2:06 pm

Dillogic wrote:
You can't see what lead up to the take down, so I'd be wary of any conclusion jumping.

I recall this was due to people trespassing on private property and the usual disturbances that go with that. That context needs to be applied to the overall event.

In your eyes, is there ever a story about blacks and the police where it's ever police misconduct. You always come down on the conservative perspective and read all kinds of things into the story to justify your point of view. I also have strong opinions, however, I'm always open to the possibility that I can be wrong. I haven't seen that with you or many conservatives. It'a always one size fits all, regardless of the facts...



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10 Jun 2015, 2:06 pm

beneficii wrote:
Quit trying to change the subject. Police brutality is a major problem in this country.


But civilian brutality is a bigger one, is it not?

The whole point of this incident was based on civilians trespassing.



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10 Jun 2015, 2:09 pm

Dillogic wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Quit trying to change the subject. Police brutality is a major problem in this country.


But civilian brutality is a bigger one, is it not?

The whole point of this incident was based on civilians trespassing.


You're still trying to change the subject, and NO it's not.


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10 Jun 2015, 2:10 pm

pcuser wrote:
In your eyes, is there ever a story about blacks and the police where it's ever police misconduct. You always come down on the conservative perspective and read all kinds of things into the story to justify your point of view. I also have strong opinions, however, I'm always open to the possibility that I can be wrong. I haven't seen that with you or many conservatives. It'a always one size fits all, regardless of the facts...


I don't care about skin color, nor about who is involved. Rather, the facts of the case.

That, "shot in the back" one recently looks iffy (depending on the law of that state).