Transgender panelist threatens another panelist

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beneficii
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17 Jul 2015, 2:10 pm

Zoey Tur threatens to send Ben Shapiro "home in an ambulance" while engaged in physical contact with Shapiro:

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/07/370785- ... ambulance/

The other panelists talk as if Shapiro had that coming to him.


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RoadRatt
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17 Jul 2015, 3:46 pm

Ben Shapiro is correct.


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blauSamstag
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17 Jul 2015, 8:33 pm

Yeah, chromosomes do in fact necessarily determine whether you are biologically male or female (or hermaphrodite, or have kleinfelters, etc).

Which has nothing to do with anyone's position on gender dysphoria.



heavenlyabyss
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17 Jul 2015, 10:12 pm

I think it is sometimes appropriate to give marginalized people a bit of leeway with things like this since they face so much discrimination day in and day out. Comments like his have got to get really old really fast.

He basically called implied that Zoey was a delusional, mentally ill person. That was an incredibly tactless thing to say for someone who seems to be not unintelligent. If he genuinely felt concerned that she was mentally ill, he would have expressed his opinion in a more empathetic manner (even if misguided).

Here's a hint. Don't call someone delusional even if you think they are. It's never appropriate under any circumstances. It's never constructive.

And don't judge a person by their reactions to someone who has willfully provoked them.



cathylynn
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17 Jul 2015, 10:24 pm

heavenlyabyss wrote:
I think it is sometimes appropriate to give marginalized people a bit of leeway with things like this since they face so much discrimination day in and day out. Comments like his have got to get really old really fast.

He basically called implied that Zoey was a delusional, mentally ill person. That was an incredibly tactless thing to say for someone who seems to be not unintelligent. If he genuinely felt concerned that she was mentally ill, he would have expressed his opinion in a more empathetic manner (even if misguided).

Here's a hint. Don't call someone delusional even if you think they are. It's never appropriate under any circumstances. It's never constructive.

And don't judge a person by their reactions to someone who has willfully provoked them.

i don't care what he said. threats of physical harm are off-limits (and illegal).



heavenlyabyss
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17 Jul 2015, 10:35 pm

Was it an actual threat or was it just posturing?

All I know is you enter a vicious vortex of doom when you start accusing people of intolerance for being intolerant of intolerance. It's not constructive or helpful.

If it was an actual threat then I agree. I don't think anyone could honestly say they interpreted it that way though. I thought it was a rather poorly thought out defensive reaction and I think it's helpful to see it for exactly what it is.

Poor Ben Shapiro. Lol. Just kidding.



blauSamstag
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18 Jul 2015, 12:41 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Was it an actual threat or was it just posturing?

All I know is you enter a vicious vortex of doom when you start accusing people of intolerance for being intolerant of intolerance. It's not constructive or helpful.

If it was an actual threat then I agree. I don't think anyone could honestly say they interpreted it that way though. I thought it was a rather poorly thought out defensive reaction and I think it's helpful to see it for exactly what it is.

Poor Ben Shapiro. Lol. Just kidding.


In any case it's embarrassingly poor form in a formal panel discussion or debate.



heavenlyabyss
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18 Jul 2015, 2:51 am

Perhaps you could say that but I would also say the response is UNDERSTANDABLE. Understandable being the key word.

Ben Shapiro's glib obtuness was making ME furious and I am not transgender. Simply MADDENING how he REFUSES to refer to Zoey as a SHE. This is deliberate and calculated. He may see it as "he is right and she is wrong" but I see it as an ATTACK. And I assume this is how Zoey saw it. When you understand how Zoey FELT it was an attack, her response is UNDERSTANDABLE. I'm not saying it's politically correct or full of tact but it is understandable. To paint Ben Shaprio as an innocent victim is wrong. He knew that his comment would be deeply offensive to Zoey and he said it anyway and then plays victim when he gets an attack that he KNOWS is coming

Sorry, I don't like personal attacks. I don't like threats of violence. But everyone can be driven to this point. No one is above it.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Jul 2015, 10:20 am

One can argue gender dysmorphia has very little to do with the genetic makeup determining the actual sex, whether it be male or female, so Shapiro has created a straw man there.



Factory Ten
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18 Jul 2015, 1:05 pm

Threatening physical violence when someone insults you is a prime example of insecurity and immaturity. Accept that someone has a different opinion, no matter how insulting, and stop trying to change that opinion through threats of physical violence. That room was full of poor excuses for human beings - insults, threats, and celebration of threats.. There were no winners. Only losers.



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18 Jul 2015, 4:42 pm

My problem with the whole "he" "she" thing is this. If it has a penis attached, it's a he and I can't call it by anything else no matter what it wants me to call it. Samantha Schacher called it disrespecting the pronouns. I say that's a bunch of politically correct B.S. . It's not about respect or disrespect, it's about the truth as I see it.

If Bruce felt that he was a truck instead of a woman, that would be just as incorrect since he is clearly a man. I still wouldn't have been able to call Bruce a truck either. :geek:


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Factory Ten
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18 Jul 2015, 5:14 pm

RoadRatt wrote:
My problem with the whole "he" "she" thing is this. If it has a penis attached, it's a he and I can't call it by anything else no matter what it wants me to call it. Samantha Schacher called it disrespecting the pronouns. I say that's a bunch of politically correct B.S. . It's not about respect or disrespect, it's about the truth as I see it.

If Bruce felt that he was a truck instead of a woman, that would be just as incorrect since he is clearly a man. I still wouldn't have been able to call Bruce a truck either. :geek:


I will say this about "Bruce" - if someone changed their name from John to James, would you still call them Bob? That's not to say I don't call Caitlyn Jenner "Bruce" from time to time simply because Caitlyn was known to the public as "Bruce" for almost forty years. Man or woman aside though, I think it's fair to call Caitlyn "Caitlyn". Of course, I still have a lot left of calling him "Bruce" before I adjust to the name change because I'm a creature of habit.



beneficii
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18 Jul 2015, 5:21 pm

RoadRatt wrote:
My problem with the whole "he" "she" thing is this. If it has a penis attached, it's a he and I can't call it by anything else no matter what it wants me to call it. Samantha Schacher called it disrespecting the pronouns. I say that's a bunch of politically correct B.S. . It's not about respect or disrespect, it's about the truth as I see it.

If Bruce felt that he was a truck instead of a woman, that would be just as incorrect since he is clearly a man. I still wouldn't have been able to call Bruce a truck either. :geek:


What if you recognize the person as trans but don't know if they had the "surgery" yet?


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RoadRatt
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18 Jul 2015, 5:57 pm

Factory Ten wrote:
I will say this about "Bruce" - if someone changed their name from John to James, would you still call them Bob? That's not to say I don't call Caitlyn Jenner "Bruce" from time to time simply because Caitlyn was known to the public as "Bruce" for almost forty years. Man or woman aside though, I think it's fair to call Caitlyn "Caitlyn". Of course, I still have a lot left of calling him "Bruce" before I adjust to the name change because I'm a creature of habit.


I don't see why I would call them Bob, unless that was their nickname. I have no problem calling someone by their nickname. I've been calling Bruce - Bruce all these years, even though that isn't his real given name lol.

beneficii wrote:
What if you recognize the person as trans but don't know if they had the "surgery" yet?


Why don't we just go with the tranny in the video, Zoey. At that point having no other name to go by I guess I'd have no choice but to use the name they are going by at the time. Though I still wouldn't be able to call him a woman.


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beneficii
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18 Jul 2015, 5:57 pm

RoadRatt wrote:
Factory Ten wrote:
I will say this about "Bruce" - if someone changed their name from John to James, would you still call them Bob? That's not to say I don't call Caitlyn Jenner "Bruce" from time to time simply because Caitlyn was known to the public as "Bruce" for almost forty years. Man or woman aside though, I think it's fair to call Caitlyn "Caitlyn". Of course, I still have a lot left of calling him "Bruce" before I adjust to the name change because I'm a creature of habit.


I don't see why I would call them Bob, unless that was their nickname. I have no problem calling someone by their nickname. I've been calling Bruce - Bruce all these years, even though that isn't his real given name lol.

beneficii wrote:
What if you recognize the person as trans but don't know if they had the "surgery" yet?


Why don't we just go with the tranny in the video, Zoey. At that point having no other name to go by I guess I'd have no choice but to use the name they are going by at the time. Though I still wouldn't be able to call him a woman.


So it doesn't matter if they've had surgery or not, then?


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