Check out this disturbing video of Officer cuffing 8 y child

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Janissy
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07 Aug 2015, 8:20 am

Raptor wrote:
Janissy wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
There should be no law enforcement officers at the school or even at the district office unless and until something has gotten to a point where it can't be handled by the faculty and parents.

Raptor wrote:
This I agree with but then school employees have step up and be the johnny-on-the-spot with the firm hand when necessary. People don't want that liability so the cops are put in there and naturally do what cops do best (intimidate, cuff, taser, beat, intimidate some more, etc..) and it'll keep getting worse.


The school employees can't use a literal firm hand unless the parents sign a release form in advance, allowing it (because liability). When my daughter finally got approved to transfer to a special needs school, I had to sign a release that allowed "restraining hold in the event that de-escalation measures are not sufficient". I signed it but they never used it on her. They are very good at de-escalation. However, de-escalation doesn't have a guarenteed 100% success rate and thus the need for the firm hand i.e. restraining hold in some situations. Thus also the need for a release form because of liability.

Can you imagine the deafening uproar if such a form went home to all the parents of kids at a mainstream school? Judging from Adamantium's post about the gun in school, which was actually a stupid bit of showing off rather than attempted terrorism, the uproar would be nuclear.

"Restraining hold" sounds alarming but it sure beats a taser. The huge catch (besides the need for a release form) is that it requires training to do safely and also requires de-escalation training so it is a last rather than first resort.

Then I guess we'll continue to have cops in schools doing what cops do and it'll get worse from there.


One possible solution which ought to be easy to implement but probably won't be, is to make the police themselves experts in de-escalation. We are just acccepting it as a given that cops will only use the tools of taser/intimidate/cuff etc. because that's what cops do with adults. But what if there were a subdivision trained specifically to work with kids instead of just making it a "whoever is available" rotation the way it seems to be now.

Police have other specialty subdivisions. Why not one for this? If SPED teachers in special needs schools can be taught to de-escalate and use restraining holds safely, it should be possible to teach cops. They would still be cops in case there really was an active shooter in the school but they would also be able to respond to a kid who lost control in a better way than cuffing his upper arms and yelling at him. And the schools wouldn't have to deal with learning to do it themselves and all that entails.



chapstan
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09 Aug 2015, 10:19 am

From a local (Kentucky) newspaper today in response to the incident: "A northern KY school district says a Sheriff's deputy shown on video handcuffing an elementary student above the elbows was complying with its restraint policy. ...the finding came from an independent investigator hired by the district. ...In a letter to parents, Covington Independent Public Schools Superintendent Alvin Garrison said Sumner complied with the district's policies 'which are designed to ensure that students do not injure themselves or others.' "



Raptor
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09 Aug 2015, 12:12 pm

Janissy wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Janissy wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
There should be no law enforcement officers at the school or even at the district office unless and until something has gotten to a point where it can't be handled by the faculty and parents.

Raptor wrote:
This I agree with but then school employees have step up and be the johnny-on-the-spot with the firm hand when necessary. People don't want that liability so the cops are put in there and naturally do what cops do best (intimidate, cuff, taser, beat, intimidate some more, etc..) and it'll keep getting worse.


The school employees can't use a literal firm hand unless the parents sign a release form in advance, allowing it (because liability). When my daughter finally got approved to transfer to a special needs school, I had to sign a release that allowed "restraining hold in the event that de-escalation measures are not sufficient". I signed it but they never used it on her. They are very good at de-escalation. However, de-escalation doesn't have a guarenteed 100% success rate and thus the need for the firm hand i.e. restraining hold in some situations. Thus also the need for a release form because of liability.

Can you imagine the deafening uproar if such a form went home to all the parents of kids at a mainstream school? Judging from Adamantium's post about the gun in school, which was actually a stupid bit of showing off rather than attempted terrorism, the uproar would be nuclear.

"Restraining hold" sounds alarming but it sure beats a taser. The huge catch (besides the need for a release form) is that it requires training to do safely and also requires de-escalation training so it is a last rather than first resort.

Then I guess we'll continue to have cops in schools doing what cops do and it'll get worse from there.


One possible solution which ought to be easy to implement but probably won't be, is to make the police themselves experts in de-escalation. We are just acccepting it as a given that cops will only use the tools of taser/intimidate/cuff etc. because that's what cops do with adults. But what if there were a subdivision trained specifically to work with kids instead of just making it a "whoever is available" rotation the way it seems to be now.

Police have other specialty subdivisions. Why not one for this? If SPED teachers in special needs schools can be taught to de-escalate and use restraining holds safely, it should be possible to teach cops. They would still be cops in case there really was an active shooter in the school but they would also be able to respond to a kid who lost control in a better way than cuffing his upper arms and yelling at him. And the schools wouldn't have to deal with learning to do it themselves and all that entails.

Probly be like trying to teach bears to s**t in toilets.

"SPED"
I hadn't heard that term in a while. At the school where I went to 7th and 8th grade SPED was used to disparage special ed students.
They were called SPEDs.


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09 Aug 2015, 12:14 pm

chapstan wrote:
From a local (Kentucky) newspaper today in response to the incident: "A northern KY school district says a Sheriff's deputy shown on video handcuffing an elementary student above the elbows was complying with its restraint policy. ...the finding came from an independent investigator hired by the district. ...In a letter to parents, Covington Independent Public Schools Superintendent Alvin Garrison said Sumner complied with the district's policies 'which are designed to ensure that students do not injure themselves or others.' "


I kinda figured that would be the outcome. Cops are gonna do what cops do.


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09 Aug 2015, 2:53 pm

chapstan wrote:
From a local (Kentucky) newspaper today in response to the incident: "A northern KY school district says a Sheriff's deputy shown on video handcuffing an elementary student above the elbows was complying with its restraint policy. ...the finding came from an independent investigator hired by the district. ...In a letter to parents, Covington Independent Public Schools Superintendent Alvin Garrison said Sumner complied with the district's policies 'which are designed to ensure that students do not injure themselves or others.' "


Then the kid's parents should sue the sh*t out of the school district.


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chapstan
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09 Aug 2015, 5:23 pm

I think that is what is happening, the incident happened about a year ago and now the sheriff and the school are being sued. And because of that they, the A CLU, put the video out there.



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09 Aug 2015, 6:24 pm

Raptor wrote:
chapstan wrote:
From a local (Kentucky) newspaper today in response to the incident: "A northern KY school district says a Sheriff's deputy shown on video handcuffing an elementary student above the elbows was complying with its restraint policy. ...the finding came from an independent investigator hired by the district. ...In a letter to parents, Covington Independent Public Schools Superintendent Alvin Garrison said Sumner complied with the district's policies 'which are designed to ensure that students do not injure themselves or others.' "


I kinda figured that would be the outcome. Cops are gonna do what cops do.


yup, and policy makes it right



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10 Aug 2015, 10:58 am

chapstan wrote:
From a local (Kentucky) newspaper today in response to the incident: "A northern KY school district says a Sheriff's deputy shown on video handcuffing an elementary student above the elbows was complying with its restraint policy. ...the finding came from an independent investigator hired by the district. ...In a letter to parents, Covington Independent Public Schools Superintendent Alvin Garrison said Sumner complied with the district's policies 'which are designed to ensure that students do not injure themselves or others.' "



If a kid is so violent that he has to be handcuffed to keep himself from harming others, why isn't he in psychiatric care? Why do we let these kids run around harming others? Then we get outraged when we see one of them handcuffed and we automatically ASSume it's an innocent child instead of a Chuckie. It's sad how schools have to resort to the police because parents won't hospitalize their violent kids so they have to protect others and I think this is the only way to get the kid help. But it can be traumatizing for the kid. But really this is school, not a mental place so no kid should have to be restrained to ensure they won't harm others. If it has to be that way, the kid should be locked up for the safety of others. I think there needs to be laws about this.

I think if more parents started to sue other parents when their kids intentionally harm others and they have a history of violence, more of them might start locking their kids away or keeping their violent kids away to avoid a lawsuit if their kid harms someone. I know I would sue if that happened with mine and only way I wouldn't sue is if lawyers told me I had a slim chance of winning or if it was going to cost me more than the medical bill to win. If it was some innocent kid playing and my son broke his arm let's say and it was an accident and there was no violence, and no fighting and no anger, then no sue. Accidents happen. I broke a girl's arm once by mistake from playing on the jungle gym and she fell off and landed on the ground and got taken to the office. The next day she had on a cast. I was too young to really understand what I did, I only knew she hurt her arm and she got it casted. So I had no remorse.


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10 Aug 2015, 1:59 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Raptor wrote:
chapstan wrote:
From a local (Kentucky) newspaper today in response to the incident: "A northern KY school district says a Sheriff's deputy shown on video handcuffing an elementary student above the elbows was complying with its restraint policy. ...the finding came from an independent investigator hired by the district. ...In a letter to parents, Covington Independent Public Schools Superintendent Alvin Garrison said Sumner complied with the district's policies 'which are designed to ensure that students do not injure themselves or others.' "


I kinda figured that would be the outcome. Cops are gonna do what cops do.


yup, and policy makes it right


But sometimes policy changes when this kind of thing gets widely seen and discussed:
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/08/ ... nter-probe



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10 Aug 2015, 4:19 pm

What I don't get is how embarrassing the poor kid is supposed to help with this type of behavior.


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10 Aug 2015, 5:14 pm

glebel wrote:
What I don't get is how embarrassing the poor kid is supposed to help with this type of behavior.

I don't think it's about helping the kid.

It's just about:
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11 Aug 2015, 3:14 pm

League_Girl wrote:
chapstan wrote:
From a local (Kentucky) newspaper today in response to the incident: "A northern KY school district says a Sheriff's deputy shown on video handcuffing an elementary student above the elbows was complying with its restraint policy. ...the finding came from an independent investigator hired by the district. ...In a letter to parents, Covington Independent Public Schools Superintendent Alvin Garrison said Sumner complied with the district's policies 'which are designed to ensure that students do not injure themselves or others.' "



If a kid is so violent that he has to be handcuffed to keep himself from harming others, why isn't he in psychiatric care? Why do we let these kids run around harming others? Then we get outraged when we see one of them handcuffed and we automatically ASSume it's an innocent child instead of a Chuckie. It's sad how schools have to resort to the police because parents won't hospitalize their violent kids so they have to protect others and I think this is the only way to get the kid help. But it can be traumatizing for the kid. But really this is school, not a mental place so no kid should have to be restrained to ensure they won't harm others. If it has to be that way, the kid should be locked up for the safety of others. I think there needs to be laws about this.

I think if more parents started to sue other parents when their kids intentionally harm others and they have a history of violence, more of them might start locking their kids away or keeping their violent kids away to avoid a lawsuit if their kid harms someone. I know I would sue if that happened with mine and only way I wouldn't sue is if lawyers told me I had a slim chance of winning or if it was going to cost me more than the medical bill to win. If it was some innocent kid playing and my son broke his arm let's say and it was an accident and there was no violence, and no fighting and no anger, then no sue. Accidents happen. I broke a girl's arm once by mistake from playing on the jungle gym and she fell off and landed on the ground and got taken to the office. The next day she had on a cast. I was too young to really understand what I did, I only knew she hurt her arm and she got it casted. So I had no remorse.


Are you under the impression that parents can just get their kids inpatient psychiatric care if it is needed? Hahahaha (although not actually funny). No.

A little story (there are thousands more just like it)

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/lowell/parents-advised-to-abandon-children-in-order-to-secure-mental/article_d8073da8-2609-5bf8-ba2f-1157dce11b66.html

The point of the story is that some parents are intentionally abandoning their children by refusing to pick them up from school or other secure government building even though this will get them child neglect charges. Why? Because it will also get their child inpatient psychiatric care. Children who are wards of the state get inpatient psychiatric care as needed. Not a ward of the state? Then it all depends on what your insurance covers (not that, most likely) or what you can afford out of pocket (you can't).


Quote:
After weeks of trying to find a facility for his 17-year-old son before the teen was discharged from a youth academy, the Roselawn resident had lost hope. John penned a letter to the academy and Indiana Department of Child Services to let them know he would not be picking up his son — even though it would lead to a finding of child neglect against the father.

It was a desperate scenario — but John's best option to get mental health services for his son, according to some mental health professionals.

Parents, judges, prosecutors and other officials in Indiana say there is a multiagency failure to provide mental health services to the children who need it most. Children who don't get appropriate services can end up in the juvenile delinquency system.

As a last resort, some region parents told The Times they were advised to "abandon" their children to obtain mental health services.


And you want to add a lawsuit against the parents on top of that. :evil:



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12 Aug 2015, 11:56 am

Janissy wrote:
Are you under the impression that parents can just get their kids inpatient psychiatric care if it is needed? Hahahaha (although not actually funny). No.

A little story (there are thousands more just like it)

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/lowell/parents-advised-to-abandon-children-in-order-to-secure-mental/article_d8073da8-2609-5bf8-ba2f-1157dce11b66.html

The point of the story is that some parents are intentionally abandoning their children by refusing to pick them up from school or other secure government building even though this will get them child neglect charges. Why? Because it will also get their child inpatient psychiatric care. Children who are wards of the state get inpatient psychiatric care as needed. Not a ward of the state? Then it all depends on what your insurance covers (not that, most likely) or what you can afford out of pocket (you can't).


Quote:
After weeks of trying to find a facility for his 17-year-old son before the teen was discharged from a youth academy, the Roselawn resident had lost hope. John penned a letter to the academy and Indiana Department of Child Services to let them know he would not be picking up his son — even though it would lead to a finding of child neglect against the father.

It was a desperate scenario — but John's best option to get mental health services for his son, according to some mental health professionals.

Parents, judges, prosecutors and other officials in Indiana say there is a multiagency failure to provide mental health services to the children who need it most. Children who don't get appropriate services can end up in the juvenile delinquency system.

As a last resort, some region parents told The Times they were advised to "abandon" their children to obtain mental health services.


And you want to add a lawsuit against the parents on top of that. :evil:


Thanks for sharing that. It's one of the more depressing things I have read recently, but something everyone needs to know. "safety net" What a joke. :( :(