Mass shooting at Oregon college: 15+ dead...

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Dillogic
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02 Oct 2015, 2:17 am

wilburforce wrote:
When these things happen I can't fail to notice that some have histories of mental health issues and some don't--but 99.99% are men. I can't remember ever hearing about a female mass-shooter. Could toxic gender roles have something to do with it, maybe? Why is it only men who kill this way if it's a mental health thing--where are all the mentally ill female spree shooters if mental health is the basic problem?


There's been a couple of women rampage shooters. But yeah, it's a man thing for the most part.

I don't think "shooting" has much to do with it other than being a cultural artifact for the US -- if firearms are common and a part of the culture, then firearms will probably be used. You don't see many mass bombings in the US, even though everyone has ready access to the components needed; you see a lot in the Middle East.

You don't see many massacres in say, Japan, but they have a cultural artifact that prefers suicide when bad times arrive (which has been there for a very long time).



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02 Oct 2015, 4:04 am

The very first 'school shooter' was a sixteen-year-old girl named Brenda Spencer.

She used a rifle that she owned, a birthday present from her father.

She lived across the street from an elementary school and shot, from a window of her home, children, a janitor, and

the principal, on the playground during recess,sort of like target practice.

She was captured/arrested, and when asked why, answered 'I hate Mondays'.

Laurie Dann was much more complex.....she left a tray full of poisoned fruit drinks in the refrigerator of a local

fraternity, took a classroom full of children hostage, shot at least one of them, and was killed by the police.

Both incidents were over twenty years ago.


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Booyakasha
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02 Oct 2015, 4:15 am

There was also Heather Smith who shot her ex boyfriend who was 14 at the time at their junior high school and another 14 year old person from her school before she shot herself as well in 1985. She was 14 as well.


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02 Oct 2015, 4:18 am

Without wishing to sound flippant or cheapen an obvious tragedy, I wonder how long it'll be before someone at Fox News tries to blame it on marijuana being legal in Oregon (but nothing to do with US gun laws, oh no, never).



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02 Oct 2015, 7:34 am

Men are more of a predisposition to use this kind of violence. I think it's a testosterone thing, nothing cultural. Serial killers are almost exclusively men, mass murderers are usually men, and the vast majority of murders are committed by men. That doesn't mean woman could never do these things, they just tend to engage in this type of violence much less than men.



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02 Oct 2015, 8:53 am

He expressed admiration for the Roanoke Shooter, Lester Flannigan, who was a gay, black prostitute and former news anchor. Lester Flannigan also murdered his own cats before he murdered our local newspeople. I happen to live within walking distance of one of the victims.

So the Oregon shooter was a mixed raced, conservative republication, a nerd, an anti-religion extremist, who admired a murdering prostitute. How do all of these things exist in one person?



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02 Oct 2015, 10:27 am

SocOfAutism wrote:
He expressed admiration for the Roanoke Shooter, Lester Flannigan, who was a gay, black prostitute and former news anchor. Lester Flannigan also murdered his own cats before he murdered our local newspeople. I happen to live within walking distance of one of the victims.

So the Oregon shooter was a mixed raced, conservative republication, a nerd, an anti-religion extremist, who admired a murdering prostitute. How do all of these things exist in one person?


Not all conservatives or Republicans are white, heterosexual, religiously pious men.


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02 Oct 2015, 10:30 am

Sylkat wrote:
The very first 'school shooter' was a sixteen-year-old girl named Brenda Spencer.

Actually, I don't think that's true.....
Quote:
The earliest known shooting to happen on school property in North America was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where Delaware (Lenape) American Indian fighters entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed ten children (reports vary). Only one child survived.

She doesn't seem to be the first school shooter in California:
Quote:
February 16, 1867: Knights Ferry, California, Mr. McGinnis was shot and killed by his daughter's teacher after McGinnis threatened the teacher for expelling his daughter from school. When McGinnis's son learned of this, he went to the school and killed the teacher.

She doesn't seem to be the first female 'school shooter':
Quote:
March 1873: Iowa, Elvina Stickney, a school girl, shot her teacher because he was not in love with her. Elvina was pronounced insane.

She also doesn't even seem to be the first mass shooter, of students, in the 20th century:
Quote:
August 1, 1966: Charles Whitman, aged 25, climbed atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, and killed 17 people and wounded 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage in the University of Texas massacre.[166] The shooting would remain the deadliest shooting on a U.S. college campus until the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007.

Though minors killing someone at school are numerous, she doesn't even seem to be the first minor, to commit mass murder / shooting, on a school:
Quote:
December 30, 1974: Olean, New York, Regents scholar Anthony Barbaro, 17, armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several "battle plans" for his attack on the school.

This list is, by-no-means, exhaustive----but then, I only googled / opened one link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States





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02 Oct 2015, 10:48 am

USA intransigent and stubbornly wedded to the myth that gun ownership made the country great. Part of the gods chosen country idea from which a large amount of the population (the NRA and the gun industry) will not let it escape.

Rather than admit something is wrong with this ideal, gun lovers will stubbornly watch massacres abound and always make excuses and pass blame.

You can clearly see that Obama is pulling his hair out in impotence.
America has a crazy problem with guns, but the first thing with an addiction is to admit to yourself that it is a problem, until then nothing will change.

That is where we are at present. Sadly in this respect the US is sick and is trapped by its own addiction to gun mythology.

Leading the world with 90 guns per 100 head of population in the USA ! !! !! that is crazy and quite obscene.

(7/100 in UK for comparison)



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02 Oct 2015, 11:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
Turns out he didn't have Asperger's after all. Now they claim he was an anti-christian black leftist.

CNN claims he's mixed background gun-owning conservative republican who supports the police against groups like "Black lives matter"

Looking at his mugshot he doesn't strike me as black...


Actually, in another post they showed a comment from him saying something about "all you white racists pigs"...so it may very well be true, who knows.



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02 Oct 2015, 12:15 pm

Peejay wrote:
America has a crazy problem with guns, but the first thing with an addiction is to admit to yourself that it is a problem, until then nothing will change.

That is where we are at present. Sadly in this respect the US is sick and is trapped by its own addiction to gun mythology.


Firstly, almost none of the Americans who are "addicted" to guns, are mass-shooters----most of the people doing these mass-shootings seem to have acquired their guns, just MONTHS before the shootings; so, it doesn't really seem like guns are their "special interest".

Secondly, I don't take kindly to a BRIT----or, ANY non-American, for-that-matter----saying that my entire country is "sick"! !





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02 Oct 2015, 12:38 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Peejay wrote:
America has a crazy problem with guns, but the first thing with an addiction is to admit to yourself that it is a problem, until then nothing will change.

That is where we are at present. Sadly in this respect the US is sick and is trapped by its own addiction to gun mythology.


Firstly, almost none of the Americans who are "addicted" to guns, are mass-shooters----most of the people doing these mass-shootings seem to have acquired their guns, just MONTHS before the shootings; so, it doesn't really seem like guns are their "special interest".

Secondly, I don't take kindly to a BRIT----or, ANY non-American, for-that-matter----saying that my entire country is "sick"! !

Yeah, I'm past sick and tired of these Anglais criticizing us on our domestic affairs. They're not exactly poster children for sound internal policies.
And as far as gun ownership goes, it is not a "mythology" that gun ownership is part of the American make-up. The Colonials had better guns (rifles) than the Redcoats, and this was a major factor in throwing off English tyranny.
The main problem is not guns, but the rather the Government creating free-fire zones that they call gun free zones. Look at Arizona, the state with the loosest gun restrictions has nary an incident. Soft targets make for tempting targets, but if these loosers thought that there might be someone there who had the means to stop them, they would not attempt these heinous acts.


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02 Oct 2015, 1:02 pm

It's not that we don't like the average American, it's that we don't like the American government.


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02 Oct 2015, 1:11 pm

I'm going to submit my thoughts on this as following gun management as I see it, could not really work in that the nation is so vast enforcement would be almost impossible. 2nd, not all gun restrictions are followed to the letter so to speak such as at firearm trade shows and the like. 3rd, All persons whom commit atrocious acts of violence are not always mentally un-balanced though, there is potential for some to be however, some people have carried out gun violence as it pertains towards social or religious rationals.

Honestly, I'm not a member of parliament so, I'd not really know how to decisively deal with this problem however, I felt that I could be resolved but, it would take a great amount of patience and intestinal fortitude by all parties involved.


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02 Oct 2015, 1:19 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Peejay wrote:
America has a crazy problem with guns, but the first thing with an addiction is to admit to yourself that it is a problem, until then nothing will change.

That is where we are at present. Sadly in this respect the US is sick and is trapped by its own addiction to gun mythology.


Firstly, almost none of the Americans who are "addicted" to guns, are mass-shooters----most of the people doing these mass-shootings seem to have acquired their guns, just MONTHS before the shootings; so, it doesn't really seem like guns are their "special interest".

Secondly, I don't take kindly to a BRIT----or, ANY non-American, for-that-matter----saying that my entire country is "sick"! !


Firstly as I have said in a few other posts I like and admire lots of things about the US. (I have been equally damning about disgraceful British behaviours in the past too)

Secondly in this particular respect re gun culture I actually would argue the point that the US is sick, I also know that millions of Americans agree with this point of view including your current President.

Thirdly I did not try to criticise actual individuals but the well documented gun culture and also how incredibly easy it is to acquire guns. (Many people who own guns are themselves a victim of the gun culture by the fact that they feel so vulnerable that they have to carry guns.... its a self feeding problem)

The fact that pro gun lobbyists can still argue that guns are not the problem but the owners are beggars belief.
90 guns for every 100 people in the US ... do you really think this is healthy Are you actually arguing that this is a healthy state of affairs for a leading 1st world country.

If you do not take kindly to the blindingly obvious, then I apologise for repeating what countless Americans have been saying for decades.
But please do not present me as anti-American just because I disagree with you, I am equally prepared to criticise my own country.

Do you not think that if the US wants to present itself as a moral arbiter and peace keeper of the world (as it often does) then it should tackle this problem . Sure `people` are the ones who fire guns, the guns themselves are inert; but only if they were freely available.

After the last college shooting some NRA gun nuts were arguing (indefensively) don`t cut back on guns but to arm teachers!... unbelievable. I am a teacher.... what a perverse thought that this would be the answer.

GHunting is one thing as is sports shooting, but I am not talking about that here.
For these messed up F***ks who do all these shootings it is irrelevant whether guns are there special interest or not (its the same in the UK but on a vastly smaller level)
But the American west taught us that guns are a way to get your voice heard... wasn`t the colt pistol nicknamed `the equaliser`..... that is the psychology of what is happening what is happening... no recourse to civilised methods of law... just use the equaliser. Its just the ease that people can do in the US this which is mind boggling.

I am not saying anything that Americans haven`t been saying for years... So top the pick on the outsider Brit stuff.. that is just a petty distraction. Have a debate about the shootings and guns in the US.
It is noticeable how defensive some of you are when the right to bear arms comes up. And this `part of the American make-up` stuff is exactly what you should surely be trying to change not glorify.
You make up your own make up.

Are you actually arguing that the US does not have a gun problem?