Mass shooting at Oregon college: 15+ dead...

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AnonymousAnonymous
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02 Oct 2015, 1:31 pm

I didn't know about the shooting until I got to PSU and someone told me what happened at UCC. Like many, I'm just tired of the gun violence in the US now and something needs to be done fast to prevent more shootings.

As for why the shooter did this is beyond any of our understanding. If the shooter had AS, then it's just another reason for NTs to look down on us and address us by derogatory terms.


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luan78zao
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02 Oct 2015, 1:38 pm

Since President Obama was first sworn in, a Finn or a Belgian is more likely to die in a public mass shooting than an American.

http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/compar ... nd-europe/

While Australia, Canada, and the UK have less gun crime than the US, their rates of assaults and other violent street crimes are much higher. Not everybody would find this to be a good tradeoff.

http://www.rebresearch.com/blog/crime-us-vs-uk/

The vast majority of violent crime in the US, whether it involves the use of a firearm or not, is concentrated in the half-dozen worst inner cities. (All of them "gun-free zones," and all nearly 100% Democrat enclaves.) The rest of the country is one of the safest areas in the world. I know a lot of country folk who don't lock their doors, and in cold weather I still see people leaving their cars running while they go into a store.

A lot of people overseas seen to think of the US as a virtual war zone, with everybody packing heat and gun battles breaking out constantly. Unless you're unfortunate enough to live in Detroit, this is not the case.


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glebel
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02 Oct 2015, 1:45 pm

luan78zao wrote:
Since President Obama was first sworn in, a Finn or a Belgian is more likely to die in a public mass shooting than an American.

http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/compar ... nd-europe/

While Australia, Canada, and the UK have less gun crime than the US, their rates of assaults and other violent street crimes are much higher. Not everybody would find this to be a good tradeoff.

http://www.rebresearch.com/blog/crime-us-vs-uk/

The vast majority of violent crime in the US, whether it involves the use of a firearm or not, is concentrated in the half-dozen worst inner cities. (All of them "gun-free zones," and all nearly 100% Democrat enclaves.) The rest of the country is one of the safest areas in the world. I know a lot of country folk who don't lock their doors, and in cold weather I still see people leaving their cars running while they go into a store.

A lot of people overseas seen to think of the US as a virtual war zone, with everybody packing heat and gun battles breaking out constantly. Unless you're unfortunate enough to live in Detroit, this is not the case.

Yep! Where I live, we never lock our doors. I actually leave my keys in my truck because it makes it easy to find them. The greatest personal threat up here is from bears and especially mountain lions, so firearm ownership is a good idea if you want to keep your pets and livestock safe. Do they have this problem in Britain? :roll:


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Humanaut
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02 Oct 2015, 2:59 pm

glebel wrote:
The main problem is not guns, but the rather the Government creating free-fire zones that they call gun free zones.

It makes sense that a mass murderer would select an environment where the victims are unarmed.



Tim_Tex
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02 Oct 2015, 3:38 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
I didn't know about the shooting until I got to PSU and someone told me what happened at UCC. Like many, I'm just tired of the gun violence in the US now and something needs to be done fast to prevent more shootings.

As for why the shooter did this is beyond any of our understanding. If the shooter had AS, then it's just another reason for NTs to look down on us and address us by derogatory terms.


His motive was to kill Christians. He had learning disabilities and emotional problems, but I don't know if he was on the spectrum.


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Peejay
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02 Oct 2015, 3:56 pm

luan78zao wrote:

The vast majority of violent crime in the US, whether it involves the use of a firearm or not, is concentrated in the half-dozen worst inner cities. (All of them "gun-free zones," and all nearly 100% Democrat enclaves.) The rest of the country is one of the safest areas in the world. I know a lot of country folk who don't lock their doors, and in cold weather I still see people leaving their cars running while they go into a store.

A lot of people overseas seen to think of the US as a virtual war zone, with everybody packing heat and gun battles breaking out constantly. Unless you're unfortunate enough to live in Detroit, this is not the case.


I think this is a fair point, after all USA is a huuge country. And population density is an important factor.


I think for me it is the pure availability and `normalcy` of carrying a gun that I find concerning. And there is of course the constitutional `right to bear arms` which underpins the whole thing and seems to be from another era, but which provides huge support for the gun lobby and NRA supporters.
This guy had all of his weapons legally, there does not seem to be much of a test or assessment of who can carry guns in the US.

I don`t see the US as any kind of `war zone`, I just think that guns are freely available and used much more often.

I want to see the US reach its true potential but I really worry that the gun problem there has no foreseeable solution while there is such vociferous and powerful opposition to gun control.

p.s. this is an interesting article re the difficulty of making comparisons in countries crime rates.
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/20 ... an-the-us/



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02 Oct 2015, 6:00 pm

Peejay, if you're actually interested in this issue, you should look into the US violent crime rates excluding firearms, which would show you that we have unusually high violence period, even assuming no weapon substitution. You could make the argument that our violence is deadlier due to the greater chance a firearm will be involved, but not that the guns cause the violence, and even then you have to factor in the many defensive gun uses that outnumber criminal gun use.


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Tawaki
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02 Oct 2015, 8:06 pm

And let the fun begin!

I know the Daily Mail is a rag of the 1st order, but my friend just sent me this gem

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sacre.html

It sound like Mercer went to self contained, special education high school, and his life train wrecked after that.

This sucks. My husband's first "go back to work medical review" was on the heels on Sandy Hook. He has one next week. I really REALLY hope this dude was just a maniac and not on the spectrum.



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02 Oct 2015, 8:14 pm

Dox47 wrote:
You could make the argument that our violence is deadlier due to the greater chance a firearm will be involved, ... .


Doubt it.

Your inner city criminals would be far more "effective" with machetes than spraying rounds down a ball court.

Your next most common form of violence would be within the family, and murdering your partner isn't any easier with a firearm compared to a melee weapon.



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02 Oct 2015, 8:26 pm

Dillogic wrote:
...What's acceptable in regards to massacres? No one has really done any studies on it, and the main conclusion that I see is that their prevalence is tied up in population size (more people = more massacres), and that they've always been here...

True:
Quote:
Considered as one of many flood myths found in human cultures, the narrative recounts God's intent to return the Earth to its pre-creation state of watery chaos by flooding the Earth because of humanity's misdeeds and then remake it using the microcosm of Noah's ark.

The Flood Narrative
And before that there was Utnapishtim.
Maybe these killers have some sort of god complex.
I think the U.S. has gone past the tipping point. If I lived there, I would arm myself.



pezar
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02 Oct 2015, 9:00 pm

Tawaki wrote:
And let the fun begin!

I know the Daily Mail is a rag of the 1st order, but my friend just sent me this gem

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sacre.html

It sound like Mercer went to self contained, special education high school, and his life train wrecked after that.

This sucks. My husband's first "go back to work medical review" was on the heels on Sandy Hook. He has one next week. I really REALLY hope this dude was just a maniac and not on the spectrum.


Apparently he WAS on the spectrum. Elliot Rodger went to a "continuation high school", which in the US refers to special small schools meant for extremely violent kids, or teen girls who are caring for a baby. It's where the school systems hide all the failed students due to laws stating that all kids under 18 must be at school unless they're in a school-sponsored work program like ROP, or are in JROTC (military training program).

The kids in there small "bad seed" schools are hell on earth on a good day. There are none of the activities that the regular kids have to keep them interested in school, stuff like sports and school dances. An aspie kid would get very little socialization training and end up isolated and angry as an adult, after schools kick them out, after their 21st birthday for the real troublemakers and severely impaired kids. In the US, once the kids age out of school, there is nothing for them.

In a few states the kids don't even get a diploma, in Cali we had a hardazz secretary of education who introduced a high school "exit exam" designed to fail 10% of regular kids and nearly 100% of special kids, then refused to allow any exceptions. So some kids put in the time, then get booted without a diploma or much education at all. Then all they do is sit in their bedrooms at home and fume over how "the world" has failed them.

Repealing the Second Amendment would take a bill approved by two-thirds of both houses of Congress, then ratified (approved) by 38 states. Any attempts to make an end run around that process, such as by executive order, would result in a bloodbath and civil war as all the right wing fringe types would declare war on the fed.gov. Does Canada REALLY want millions of American refugees sneaking into the country, like the Syrians sneaking into Greece, of all places, in order to get away from a civil war?

The legal way is a non-starter since conservative states would never go for it, and the end run would result in a horror far greater than Syria. America would become a failed country with zillions of warlords and self-proclaimed "constitutional govts" vying for power, like Libya now or Afghanistan in the early 90s. Taking away people's guns would never happen here unless the govt goes wild and bombs flat much of the country, and then all the people in the UK and AU who said "why doesn't Obama simply ban guns by executive order?" would be wringing their hands saying "how do we stop that horrible carnage in America?"

That doesn't even get to the issue of whether the American army, much of which is drawn from uber-conservative areas in the Deep South where the Civil War is still fondly remembered, would agree to assist in a scorched-earth no holds barred war against their own families. So, no, America's guns aren't getting taken away anytime soon.



cyberdad
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02 Oct 2015, 9:40 pm

**Details of twisted letter left behind by Oregon college gunman as it's revealed he had Asperger's and was kicked out of the Army in 2008**

I guess that answers one of my questions...

A number of the commentators on the local Oregon rag that published the original story preempted the details by guessing he had autism...

To be honest the NT public will still not know what this diagnosis means anyway



Dillogic
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02 Oct 2015, 10:01 pm

cyberdad wrote:
To be honest the NT public will still not know what this diagnosis means anyway


Disabilities seem to be a protected class at the moment, so even if someone saw an overrepresentation of say, high profile spree killers and mental disorders (ASDs and Schizophrenia seem to be not uncommon), then you can bet it'll be overlooked and all attention will go to the gunz.

Which is wrong, because if there is a connection between specific personality types, mental disorders and spree killings, then it should be investigated for the sake of objectivity and in the name of helping these people.



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02 Oct 2015, 10:11 pm

To the poster who talked about comparing countries crime rates, I have to agree. I live in Puerto Rico. The crime rate here is CRAZY in comparison to the US, HOWEVER, most of that crime is drug crime. Most people killed are selling drugs or similar, NOT regular people in a mall. We don't have school or mall shootings or anything remotely related to that EVER. Yes, a couple of guys have gone into malls and killed SOMEONE, not everyone, not ANYONE, but SOMEONE, and it never fails that person they killed also had a long criminal record. I feel safer HERE with the crazy crime, than I do in the US, because we NEVER have random crime. Yes, there might be a break in or carjacking, but 99% of the time, innocent people are not killed.

PS a majority of drug dealers and similar are teens/adults with AD/HD, who had ODD when they were young and are now somewhere in the psychopath/narcissist category...when drug dealers kill each other, we just call them drug dealers, not a person with AD/HD or ODD or even psycho/sociopath or narcissist.



trayder
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02 Oct 2015, 10:34 pm

Dillogic wrote:

You'd have to provide evidence to why a firearm makes it easier.


Its not exactly rocket science that a society heavily encumbered with irrational belief systems such as religion, people heavily influenced by these belief systems and with a strong element of xenophobia thrown in plus easy access to remote killing wapons such as guns, will be on the slippery slope.

This is evident all across the world from America to Israel to the Islamic world. Secular societies tend to suffer less of this mayhem.

Incidentally, all Abrahamic.