Sex crimes in Europe by North African and Arab men

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ZenDen
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11 Jan 2016, 10:47 am

Barchan wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
People like you are exactly the reason why attacks like this will become commonplace in the west

You mean to say they aren't already?

Remember what happened in Steubenville a few years ago? A group of white boys raped two girls (in a coordinated and premeditated act), and the local government did everything they could to cover it up? These kinds of stories happen all the time. The only reason the Steubenville case got national attention was because of the brazenness of the perpetrators, bragging about it on social media. Yet I don't remember anyone saying "this is a problem with white culture." I don't remember anyone launching a campaign to keep white people out of their countries in light of a violent crime. Usually the race of the perpetrator(s) isn't even mentioned. This is white privilege.

Jacoby wrote:
SJWs are insane, they are excusing rape and sexual assault.

I'm not excusing anyone for anything. But it seems like in a country that already does everything it can to make its immigrants feel unwelcome, German citizens are chomping at the bit for any excuse to expel the minority ethnic group from its borders. The fact that people were literally waiting, almost hoping to catch an immigrant committing a crime, speaks volumes about German society. :|


"This is white privilege."????

NO, this is an example of your ignorance.

It isn't that we DON'T have crime in the United States......we have all of the crimes you can imagine, as do all "civilized" cultures. But what we DON"T need is people coming here and creating MORE crime. Can you understand that concept? We DON"T want people to come here to kill people, steal from people, rape people, it's just that simple.



ZenDen
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11 Jan 2016, 1:05 pm

We still like friendly immigrants to immigrate to our country.
As an example: We love to invite in Hindus from India, to enjoy, work, and live in our country.....is this called Hindu "privilege" because we would rather see peace loving people in our country rather than those who accept actual violence (killing, rape) as a legitimate expression of their religion?

These are thoughts many Muslims may not ponder. The reason is, I feel, because some Muslims already have all the answers, given to them by others. Why bother to consider Hindus or any other peoples when they already know Muslims have it harder than all others (according to what they've been taught by respected teachers).

And so there you have it: An ancient people who can not or will not change because of religious edict, compared to the rest of the growing changing world.

Muslims make the bed they sleep in. For them to say otherwise cheapens them even further.



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12 Jan 2016, 1:34 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
An interesting observation is many choosing to be "radicalized" are doing so based on perceived wrongs in places and on people that have nothing to do with them. This seems to be the elephant in the room that nobody (even on anonymous forums) want's to address...


The elephant is islam which has hardly been ignored in this thread.


More complicated than that...I'm old enough to remember "pan Arabism" which was an ideology based on the unification of all Arab people in one single nation. Any attack (perceived or otherwise) by Israel on Palestinians was seen by muslim people (even non-Arabs) as an attack on islam...today in the aftermath of the Gulf war where American/western troops marched into Bagdhad the islamic world has perceived this as an attack on islam where Iraq and Afghanistan were perceived to be occupied by "unbelievers" (even if it was for the benefit of rescuing the locals from Sadam Hussein and the Taliban)

The elephant is not islam but the perception that islamic hegemony is under threat. The latter is fueling recruitment of radicalized followers to ISIS but more importantly the muslim brotherhood and other shadowy organisations that represent a future long term threat. Fundementalist islam actually equates the incursion of unbelievers (even as peacekeepers) in islamic countries as invasions.



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12 Jan 2016, 5:00 am

Barchan wrote:
It seems like you're trying to make me pick a side between my feminist views and my commitment to multiculturalism, but I have no trouble reconciling the two.


Actually, I'm trying to get you to openly reveal how nonsensical and odious your views really are, and succeeding.


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pluto
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12 Jan 2016, 3:40 pm

The problem is with a minority of Muslims who are fundamentalists.Their view of the world is based on medieval history
when Crusading Christians indiscriminately slaughtered Muslim civilians,in the name of God.In those days Christians were just as much the equivalent of today's terrorists.We need the fundamentalists to somehow be persuaded to follow the actions of the majority of Muslims who are peace loving.
The incidents in Germany don't seem to be black & white as robbery could have been the main motive in some cases
but if it was gangs of immigrants then it shouldn't be swept under the carpet.


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ZenDen
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13 Jan 2016, 12:16 pm

pluto wrote:
The problem is with a minority of Muslims who are fundamentalists.Their view of the world is based on medieval history
when Crusading Christians indiscriminately slaughtered Muslim civilians,in the name of God.In those days Christians were just as much the equivalent of today's terrorists.We need the fundamentalists to somehow be persuaded to follow the actions of the majority of Muslims who are peace loving.
The incidents in Germany don't seem to be black & white as robbery could have been the main motive in some cases
but if it was gangs of immigrants then it shouldn't be swept under the carpet.


How does the old saying go?: "From your mouth to God's ear."

But first: As long as there are influential people in power resisting attempts at peaceful change, things will not change.

And second: If all of "majority of Muslims who are peace loving" can not dissuade the terrorists why do you expect them to listen to any non-believer?

And lastly: The fact is "the majority of Muslims who are peace loving" believe, as do the angry "fundamentalists", that they (the fundamentalists) are entitled, nay "instructed", by the Quran to interpret and believe and practice what they are told in the Quran, in their own, individual, manner, according to what they, the individual, believe is taught, including jihad. All of "the majority of Muslims who are peace loving" know this is true yet don't publicize it.



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13 Jan 2016, 12:50 pm

What number of Muslims are not peace loving? What number of them hold these extreme fundamentalist views? What is a vast majority? Here's what Democratic congresswoman Loretta Sanchez said herself, who sits on the Committee for Armed Forces and Committee on Homeland Security so presumably she would be privy to information we might not have access too.

“We know that there is a small group, and we don’t know how big that is – it can be anywhere between 5 and 20 percent, from the people that I speak to – that Islam is their religion and who have a desire for a caliphate and to institute that in any way possible, and in particular go after Western norms.”

Now at what number does that constitute a legitimate threat? I'd be very interested in seeing that broken down into regions. This is beyond just the cultural issues with women.

I'm okay with whoever wants to live as we do in America embracing western values and integrating into our culture, I don't want hostile separatists.

The problem is that in Sunni Islam, ISIS has just as much religious authority as anyone else because it's totally decentralized. Anyone can be an imam and any imam can make a fatwa so all it comes down to is if there are people willing to listen to it and obviously Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has some followers.



ZenDen
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13 Jan 2016, 1:52 pm

Jacoby wrote:
What number of Muslims are not peace loving? What number of them hold these extreme fundamentalist views? What is a vast majority? Here's what Democratic congresswoman Loretta Sanchez said herself, who sits on the Committee for Armed Forces and Committee on Homeland Security so presumably she would be privy to information we might not have access too.

“We know that there is a small group, and we don’t know how big that is – it can be anywhere between 5 and 20 percent, from the people that I speak to – that Islam is their religion and who have a desire for a caliphate and to institute that in any way possible, and in particular go after Western norms.”

Now at what number does that constitute a legitimate threat? I'd be very interested in seeing that broken down into regions. This is beyond just the cultural issues with women.

I'm okay with whoever wants to live as we do in America embracing western values and integrating into our culture, I don't want hostile separatists.

The problem is that in Sunni Islam, ISIS has just as much religious authority as anyone else because it's totally decentralized. Anyone can be an imam and any imam can make a fatwa so all it comes down to is if there are people willing to listen to it and obviously Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has some followers.


"I'm okay with whoever wants to live as we do in America embracing western values and integrating into our culture, I don't want hostile separatists."

And I and most people I know would agree.

However the problem with your statement is the word "whoever." It isn't just the people coming into this country, if they are Muslim, that we're concerned about. As we've seen many of the progeny of Muslim people can (and do) become radicalized and decide to kill people or perhaps go overseas so they can chop heads. This is happening because of their adherence to Islam. According to Islam this is correct belief and action.

This has not changed in far more than 1000 years. Perhaps another 1000 to 2000 years might show some changes, but I wouldn't hold my breath. :oops:



Adamantium
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13 Jan 2016, 4:11 pm

ZenDen wrote:
As we've seen many of the progeny of Muslim people can (and do) become radicalized and decide to kill people or perhaps go overseas so they can chop heads. This is happening because of their adherence to Islam. According to Islam this is correct belief and action.

This has not changed in far more than 1000 years. Perhaps another 1000 to 2000 years might show some changes, but I wouldn't hold my breath. :oops:


While there is a germ of truth in this, I think it is buried in extremely unhelpful oversimplification.

Islam has changed in the last 1,000 years in significant ways.

Wahabism is less than 200 years old and most of it's modern adherents follow a form invented as a revival movement during the cold war. Jihadist Salafism primarily originates in the 1990s.

It's estimated that 0.5% or fewer than 10 million of the world's 1.9 billion muslims support some form of jihadist Salafism.

Radicalization seems to flow from Jihadist propaganda on the internet rather than traditional media or sermons at mosques (with notable exceptions like Finsbury Park under Abu Hamza.) Instead of taking the quixotic or counter-productive task of vetting or going to war with all the 1.9 billion muslims on earth, a prudent course would be to focus the attention of security forces (and ultimately armed drones) on those who create and seek out radicalizing messages online.

Everyone who was in Al Muhajiroun before it was banned or any of its successor organizations, for example, should be under intense and continual surveillance as should all those who seek to be their students.

Such an approach, combined with more traditional human intelligence technique is going to yield better results than casting aspersions on and alienating every single person who happens to have been born in an islamic country or family.



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13 Jan 2016, 4:37 pm

This strain of Islam is a political ideology as much as a religion, these fundamentalists who want to return 7th century are akin to Nazi supremacists that hide behind "religious freedom". These fundamentalists are the enemies of western civilization and should never be allowed in the United States or anywhere in the west. If Islam can't change as Judaism and Christianity have then Islam should end, I don't see value in antiquated superstitions.



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13 Jan 2016, 5:27 pm

Jacoby wrote:
If Islam can't change as Judaism and Christianity have then Islam should end, I don't see value in antiquated superstitions.


There are plenty of recidivist loons in Judaism and Christianity. What makes Islam special in the antiquated superstition sweepstakes?

More to the point, how exactly would you propose to "end" Islam?

I'm not particularly a fan of Nietzsche but your sentiment brings a famous quote to my mind:
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He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you



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13 Jan 2016, 8:14 pm

The problem with Islam is that it's both a political ideology and religion.

They never got to point of separation of Church and State and Magna Carta. And, it doesn't look like "they" will anytime soon.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with those Muslims that hold those ideals "immigrating" after reasonable screening -- seems like it's too late for Germany and much of Western Europe now, though, where an anarchic form of immigration has already taken place with hundreds of thousands to millions crossing.



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14 Jan 2016, 9:26 am

Nobody remembers the non Muslim alt rock and nu-metal fans who behaved similarly at Woodstock '99?

alchohol, drugs, groupthink, entitlement is what this was all about.


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Adamantium
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14 Jan 2016, 11:01 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Nobody remembers the non Muslim alt rock and nu-metal fans who behaved similarly at Woodstock '99?

alchohol, drugs, groupthink, entitlement is what this was all about.


Behaved similarly only by a huge stretch of the imagination.

I think this is denial of a real problem and it's no more helpful than the racism, xenophobia and uncritical anti-Islam sentiment that others express.

You can't make it better by denying there is a problem, any more than you can make it better by going after people who did not cause the problem.



Adamantium
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14 Jan 2016, 11:13 am

Dillogic wrote:
They never got to point of separation of Church and State and Magna Carta. And, it doesn't look like "they" will anytime soon.


Magna carta? What, you want more power for barons?

The magna carta did not secure personal liberty, however mythologized it has been or however often it has been used as propaganda in support of other movements that actually did secure liberty. Most of Europe, not least England where the Head of State and Head of the national religion are one, has NO separation of church and state.

Angela Merkel is a Christian Democrat and leads the CDU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... ic_parties

What they lack is a deep commitment to the ideas of the rule of law and the rights of man. They argue that these ideas are incompatible with Islam. To the extent that they are convincing, they are correct. As long as there are muslims who don't agree, and it seems the majority do not agree, then they are wrong.