Sex crimes in Europe by North African and Arab men

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Evam
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17 Jan 2016, 4:48 am

quote from "Sweetleaf": "I have heard that some European governments more or less allow/encourage muslims to stick to their own in tight little communities and even have their own courts to deal with crimes within the muslim community, well obviously that is BS and would encourage more Islam fundamentalism."

Generally they dont. But there are always some morons who have crazy ideas, and unfortunately there are tons of them in the justice system, in particular at the family courts. There was one case that led to quite a lot of media uproar, and IMO not only because the case was quite extreme (in that case the judge would have just been denounced as being nuts on a local level) and fulfilled some demand of sensationalism, but because court argumentation is VERY often COMPLETELY absurd.

The judge rejected the application for a speedy divorce by referring to a passage in the Koran that some have controversially interpreted to mean that a husband can beat his wife. It's a supposed right which is the subject of intense debate among Muslim scholars and clerics alike."The exercise of the right to castigate does not fulfill the hardship criteria as defined by Paragraph 1565 (of German federal law)," the daily Frankfurter Rundschau quoted the judge's letter as saying. (Source: The judge rejected the application for a speedy divorce by referring to a passage in the Koran that some have controversially interpreted to mean that a husband can beat his wife. It's a supposed right which is the subject of intense debate among Muslim scholars and clerics alike."The exercise of the right to castigate does not fulfill the hardship criteria as defined by Paragraph 1565 (of German federal law)," the daily Frankfurter Rundschau quoted the judge's letter as saying.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 73017.html



Adamantium
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17 Jan 2016, 12:44 pm

Evam wrote:
Would you say that it is a different mindset, with the parallels (over-generalization, feeling of superiority) being that obvious?


Different compared with what? I am sorry, I don't understand the question. I am missing some premise, I think.

Evam wrote:
Please note that I agree with you that culture DOES play a bigger role. I actually think that people on the autism spectrum tend to either over- or under-generalize.


For the most part, I dislike generalization. I think it's important to recognize individuality--but not to the extent of denying any patterns in groups. If I may torture a metaphor: it's a mistake to look only at trees when you are considering the ecology of the forest, just as it's wrong to look only at the forest when something significant is going on in individual trees.



Evam
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21 Jan 2016, 7:48 am

Adamantium wrote:
Evam wrote:
Would you say that it is a different mindset, with the parallels (over-generalization, feeling of superiority) being that obvious?


Different compared with what? I am sorry, I don't understand the question. I am missing some premise, I think.


You had written:

"Weird polarizing in this thread: On the one hand you have Jacoby and HisMom, singing of the inevitable global Khalifa from the Wahabi supremacist songbook, and on the other hand you are here saying there is no evidence that there is any sort of problem with male sexual assaults on women in MENA cultures... and somehow concluding that people who recognize the problem of male sexual violence in that region are somehow part of the mindset that tags all aspies as potential Adam Lanzas.

Fascinating."

There are over-generalisations at work on both sides of the two poles you mentioned, on the one hand the simple "all Muslims are (potential) rapists", on the other hand "people who say that there is a bigger problem with many men s general attitude to women in some cultures than in others are potentially saying all aspies are (potential) Adam Lanzas". Even if the second over-generalisation is more sophisticated (and contentwise the much more sympathetic one), the mindset of the people who make it is formally similar to the that of the supremacists.

Again: I am very O.K. with your level of generalisation.



Adamantium
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21 Jan 2016, 9:31 am

^ I see.

Yes, it seems like a strong parallel to me. One of them is functioning around a cluster of ideas associated with the political right and the other one is functioning around a cluster of ideas associate with the political left, but the similarities in actual process seems plainly apparent to me.



Jacoby
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21 Jan 2016, 11:39 am

FWIW I never said all Muslims are potential rapists, I said people that cannot integrate and fall in line with western values should not come here and the ones already here should leave if they feel that way. You can stop being a Muslim, Islam is not a race and you can simply just stop believing in it. I do not believe in multiculturalism, you are not entitled to own little enclave nor are all cultures equal. When you migrate to another country, especially when that country was so gracious enough to do it under the auspices of being a refugee from war then I believe it expected and owed from you to conform to culture and norms of your host. I don't have bad guests, I tell bad guests to leave my property.

I don't believe in the extreme of freedom of religion, you can believe as you wish but when it translates into action that runs against our values and against our laws then it should not be tolerated. I believe in individual human rights; not religious rights which dictate that apostates be executed, adulterous women be stoned, thieves have the hands chopped off, etc. It's a supremacist belief system, their value system is of one made for marauding desert nomads and not one fit for the modern world.



Evam
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21 Jan 2016, 12:58 pm

HisMom wrote:
Evam wrote:

[...] but there IS also a cultural problem. The short answer is: People in Arab countries are raised to look down upon women dressed like we are, and going around everywhere, also in crowdy places and without a male family member, so at least when drunk, men tend to consider us as whores.

In order to understand the cultural aspects better, though, one has to find the answer to the question why the culture in those countries has become what it is. It has a lot to do with climate change and resources getting scarcer and scarcer, and the effect this has on cultures and civilization. [followed by a longer explanation]



Actually, I don't give a damn why these rabid beasts behave towards women as they do. They can do whatever they want in their own hell holes of "homelands". However, once they get into a new country, they need to get over it and adopt the norms and the cultures of their new home-lands. At the very least, they should desist from acting on their animal instincts and indulging in the violent crimes that their "religion of peace" allows them to indulge in towards Kufar populations.

It is this shocking lack of respect for their hosts and their sheer ingratitude in "going after those who have shown them kindness" that makes these creatures sub-human SCUM. I am not saying that it is OK for them to abuse their own women or children, but if their women opt to voluntarily cover themselves up, share their men with 10 other women, and live in filthy squalor with a dozen children each, then that's their choice. Just don't come into Europe or America or anywhere else and tell local women to either adopt your 7th century norms or to become victims of sexual assault.

If anything bothers me more than these people wanting to pray during the workday on the employer's dime, it's their wanton assault of the "Kufar woman" who they deem as whores / spoils of "war". Very manly indeed, going after an unarmed woman. These "men" would never dare to go after a female cop in uniform. Bunch of cowards and pansies.

So, yes, my answer to your long-winded explanation of why these men are such assholes is "I don't care, go back to your own hell holes and live out your culture in said wasteland. OR die. Your choice."


Saying you are not interested in why a problem exists, is like saying to be not interested in a solution.

You are right that it is always very useful to say people clearly what one wants and what one does not want. But this is not always enough. In this case it is not enough.



camenzind
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23 Jan 2016, 3:44 pm

I was so shocked to read that the feminist associations as well as the police did not believe most of the victims because they thought that they were indoctrinated by the right-wing politicians in order to blame the migrants ! To me, there are as much bad migrants as bad women, etc. It is all about the personality, and not the identity, of someone.

I lived five months in Cologne. To me, it is not a safe city to live in ; people drink a lot from morning to evening, the streets are quite dirty with beggars, drugged and homeless people, et cetera.