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Jute
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13 Oct 2016, 7:46 am

Or simply buy some really dark sunglasses and watch the biggest fireworks display ever.


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QuantumChemist
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13 Oct 2016, 9:25 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
It's the US we have to be afraid of nuking the planet. After all it's the only country to actually nuke another country (Japan) in war ( which I think they had absolutely no business doing), and for every bomb another country has tested the US tests at least 10 of them. The Americans are the real enemies and I hate them. End.


One should consider all of the factors involved before passing judgement:

Both Germany and Japan had nuclear programs that they were actively working on during the war. In fact, Germany was ahead of the US in nuclear research in the late 1930s. Their government pushed out many of the top scientists that were working for them and many of them came to the USA to help with the Manhattan Project. Had they not done that, they would have likely had the atomic bomb first. The German government was actively helping Japan with their nuclear program also.

If you do not believe Japan was working on processing uranium to build a weapon, look up the information on a German submarine: U-234. It was sending over half a ton of uranium oxide to Japan when it surrendered to American forces in April 1945. Japan was actively seeking a method to separate U-235 (fissonable) from U-238 (nonfissionable) in the ores that they could get. However, they were set back by the processing methods that they had developed. What do you think they would have done had they made a working nuclear device first? (Hint: look up unit 731 for a clue)

A side note: Germany actually had enough Thorium to possibly build an atomic bomb near the end of the war. The US government became quite concerned when German scientists had moved it out of France and into Germany ahead of Allied troops. Unfortunately for the German citizens (but fortunately for others), the radioactive materials ended up in their toothpaste instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doramad_R ... Toothpaste



beneficii
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13 Oct 2016, 10:21 am

I have called my Representative and Senators and implored them to strengthen our civil defense systems in preparation for nuclear war, so our population could survive such a war. I urge every American here to do the same.

I mentioned several things I had been seeing in the news to let them know how critical the situation seems to be getting, including:

- Russia has moved Iskander nuclear missiles to its Kaliningrad enclave between Poland and Lithuania presumably so it could strike Central Europe with little or no advance warning.

- Russia has been shipping advanced S-300VM anti-air and anti-missile systems to Syria presumably so it could shoot down U.S. warplanes.

- The Russian government has ordered its officials to bring their relatives home to Russia.

- Russia on October 4-7 implemented a massive evacuation drill involving a third of its population and has been building underground bunkers presumably in preparation for nuclear war.

In addition, there has been other developments I didn't mention but that are also concerning:

- The U.S. government has accused Russia of hacking political organizations' computers in the United States.

- A Putin ally says elect Trump or prepare for nuclear war.

- Houthi rebels in Yemen, who control most of the country including the capital, have fired missiles on U.S. Navy ships resulting in retaliatory missile strike by the United States.

This is a particularly dangerous situation, and I hope everyone here realizes that and comes out safe. I urge Americans here to impress upon the Congress the gravity of this situation.


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Last edited by beneficii on 13 Oct 2016, 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

beneficii
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13 Oct 2016, 10:25 am

Here, I read about watching for something called integrative complexity in communications by the Powers:

http://diplom.org/Zine/S1998R/Dorst/Complexity.html

When communications among Powers become simpler, the risk of war increases. Some of the recent rhetoric, as well as the U.S. and Russia cutting off talks, concern me that communication is getting simpler, and that therefore war is becoming more likely.


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Jute
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13 Oct 2016, 11:46 am

Relax and take a calming deep breath, there isn't going to be a nuclear war because everybody (Putin included) knows that it's a no win, doomsday scenario in which everyone loses. Take solace in the thought that if you live anywhere near a major city or military target, in the unlikely event that there ever is a nuclear war, it'll all be over for you in a fraction of a second. You'll literally never know what hit you.


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beneficii
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13 Oct 2016, 11:54 am

Jute wrote:
Relax and take a calming deep breath, there isn't going to be a nuclear war because everybody (Putin included) knows that it's a no win, doomsday scenario in which everyone loses. Take solace in the thought that if you live anywhere near a major city or military target, in the unlikely event that there ever is a nuclear war, it'll all be over for you in a fraction of a second. You'll literally never know what hit you.


This is condescending.


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Jute
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13 Oct 2016, 12:02 pm

I'd have said patronising... but nevertheless true.


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beneficii
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13 Oct 2016, 12:04 pm

Jute wrote:
I'd have said patronising... but nevertheless true.


Please stop.


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Jute
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13 Oct 2016, 12:06 pm

Please stop what?


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Jacoby
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13 Oct 2016, 12:08 pm

It seems possible that the Obama administration is purposely raising tensions with Russia before this election to raise the stakes, Hillary's entire defense of what is being revealed in these leaks is that Russia is trying to influence our elections with no proof whatsoever that they had anything to do with it. Full on propaganda war. Russia wants better relations with the US, what do Obama and Hillary want? Does anybody think Syria is worth starting WWIII over? The 'rebels' are head chopping terrorists, literally ISIS and al-Qaeda!



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13 Oct 2016, 1:25 pm

You could be a spokesman for Zhirinovski with that Kremlin party line, Jacoby. It seems very odd to have such stuff come from a conservative.
Why do you think the US actions are provocative, but Russia is just responding sensibly, sending Bears and Backfires all over the skies of Europe with no transponders, sending Bears down the California coast and into Alaskan airspace, simulating invasions of the Baltic states and Poland?

You seem to see a handful of US troops sent to Poland as some major provocation by the US, but the movement of huge armies by the Russians as not provoking to Europe (our allies). This seems odd.

Syria may not be worth fighting a nuclear war over, but what about Poland? Estonia? England? Alaska?

The kind of bullying Russia has been engaged in has to stop.


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beneficii
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13 Oct 2016, 5:42 pm

beneficii wrote:
I have called my Representative and Senators and implored them to strengthen our civil defense systems in preparation for nuclear war, so our population could survive such a war. I urge every American here to do the same.

I mentioned several things I had been seeing in the news to let them know how critical the situation seems to be getting, including:

- Russia has moved Iskander nuclear missiles to its Kaliningrad enclave between Poland and Lithuania presumably so it could strike Central Europe with little or no advance warning.

- Russia has been shipping advanced S-300VM anti-air and anti-missile systems to Syria presumably so it could shoot down U.S. warplanes.

- The Russian government has ordered its officials to bring their relatives home to Russia.

- Russia on October 4-7 implemented a massive evacuation drill involving a third of its population and has been building underground bunkers presumably in preparation for nuclear war.

In addition, there has been other developments I didn't mention but that are also concerning:

- The U.S. government has accused Russia of hacking political organizations' computers in the United States.

- A Putin ally says elect Trump or prepare for nuclear war.

- Houthi rebels in Yemen, who control most of the country including the capital, have fired missiles on U.S. Navy ships resulting in retaliatory missile strike by the United States.

This is a particularly dangerous situation, and I hope everyone here realizes that and comes out safe. I urge Americans here to impress upon the Congress the gravity of this situation.


A correction is in order. According to Snopes, the Putin ordered Russians to come home rumor is false, resulting from a poor translation from the Russian by the Daily Mail:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/12/putin- ... to-return/

This is good news.


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Adamantium
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13 Oct 2016, 9:08 pm

Thank goodness the Daily Mail is maintaining their habitual journalistic standards!


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Jacoby
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14 Oct 2016, 10:52 am

I know the whole context of the situation and have explained it at length a number of times in these threads about Syria and Ukraine; I do not agree that Russia is the aggressor in our relationship and I think evidence has shown that the US has actually been quite the bit more expansionist. It's nonsense to suggest that Russia is going to overrun all of Europe and Alaska, it's so absurd that it really doesn't need to be further addressed. If Russia wants peace with America then what is the problem? I think that our country's have a lot of shared interests and would mutually benefit for more from working together far more than we do fighting each other. I have no interest in fighting a war against Russia, war with them can mean nuclear armageddon and everybody should know that.

Trump extending the olive branch to Russia is part of what sold me on his candidacy, it signals to me that he'll bring much needed change in our foreign policy. All the pundits in the foreign policy establishment hate Donald Trump which couldn't be better music to my ears, look at the planet they have left in shambles? Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, said that Donald Trump is the better choice out of the two because Hillary risks nuclear war and I agree. Jill Stein I think is better and more authentic as an outsider than the Libertarian candidates who look like nothing less than stooges for the establishment.



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14 Oct 2016, 12:16 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I know the whole context of the situation and have explained it at length a number of times in these threads about Syria and Ukraine; I do not agree that Russia is the aggressor in our relationship and I think evidence has shown that the US has actually been quite the bit more expansionist. It's nonsense to suggest that Russia is going to overrun all of Europe and Alaska, it's so absurd that it really doesn't need to be further addressed. If Russia wants peace with America then what is the problem? I think that our country's have a lot of shared interests and would mutually benefit for more from working together far more than we do fighting each other. I have no interest in fighting a war against Russia, war with them can mean nuclear armageddon and everybody should know that.

Trump extending the olive branch to Russia is part of what sold me on his candidacy, it signals to me that he'll bring much needed change in our foreign policy. All the pundits in the foreign policy establishment hate Donald Trump which couldn't be better music to my ears, look at the planet they have left in shambles? Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, said that Donald Trump is the better choice out of the two because Hillary risks nuclear war and I agree. Jill Stein I think is better and more authentic as an outsider than the Libertarian candidates who look like nothing less than stooges for the establishment.


You make this case much much better then Trump ever has. His argument is, I am the greatest deal maker ever, trust me.


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14 Oct 2016, 12:25 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I know the whole context of the situation and have explained it at length a number of times in these threads about Syria and Ukraine; I do not agree that Russia is the aggressor in our relationship and I think evidence has shown that the US has actually been quite the bit more expansionist.


What you write makes me think of a piece I have read written by a former US diplomat (whose name I can not remember right now) who basically stated that after the Cold War the USA wasted the opportunity to make Russia a friend/ally and instead proceeded to metaphorically kick them multiple times in the balls.

Syria, there is no saying wir habben das nicht gewust there for the West, not with all those released documents and of course military leaders declaring that US allies (read Saudi-Arabia and Qatar) are funding ISIS.

Ukraine is a bit more complex situation, the Eastern provinces (which Putin does not want to add to Russia) contain a large number of both Russified Ukrainians and descendants from Russian migrant workers who naturally feel stronger ties with Russia, then the Western parts. While the Crimea was added to that country in order to intensify the Russification of Ukraine. And the population was never Ukrainian to begin with, alto very little Crim-Tartars remained after Stalin's (a Georgian) purges. But do you not think it is funny that almost no one seems to mention that the present civil war began after the then president was forced to leave office after he rejected a deal with the EU for one with Russia? With Soros even bragging that he (or better said his NGO's) was involved.

Quote:
Trump extending the olive branch to Russia is part of what sold me on his candidacy, it signals to me that he'll bring much needed change in our foreign policy.


Trump, just like Brzezinski, seems to realise that the USA needs to change its foreign policy or else disaster might inevitable.