Mother Murders Healthy Baby Fearing Disability
07 Mar 2017, 10:21 pm
An Australian woman who feared her (healthy) baby had dwarfism intentionally drowned the baby in a bathtub despite there being no evidence of dwarfism in the baby
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/0 ... warf-fears
The woman has escaped murder charges by pleading insanity (despite her having no history of mental illness)
What was telling was the woman had an obsession with perfectionism and "resented" her baby not being perfect
This story aligns with other stories where younger parents commit infanticide if they suspect their baby has a disability. Illustrates the attitude many young people have in not valuing their own child if they think it's not up to their inflated expectations
07 Mar 2017, 10:33 pm
cyberdad wrote:
This story aligns with other stories where younger parents commit infanticide if they suspect their baby has a disability. Illustrates the attitude many young people have in not valuing their own child if they think it's not up to their inflated expectations
In many (if not most) cases, I think it's less a case of 'inflated expectations' of the child, and more a case of fear.
Not saying that that fear is legitimate, but fear doesn't have to be legitimate; it's fear.
Maybe they are scared of disability generally (many people are), maybe they're scared of the extra care that'll be required. Maybe they are they thinking of quality of life, for the child but also for themselves.
I believe there is an instinct to destroy just as there is one to nurture, the former being triggered by fear and especially fear of the other, the unknown.
If the mother in this case is a true and extreme perfectionist, then I can see that being grounds for insanity, especially given the mental stress on new mothers.
08 Mar 2017, 12:30 am
racheypie666 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
This story aligns with other stories where younger parents commit infanticide if they suspect their baby has a disability. Illustrates the attitude many young people have in not valuing their own child if they think it's not up to their inflated expectations
In many (if not most) cases, I think it's less a case of 'inflated expectations' of the child, and more a case of fear.
Not saying that that fear is legitimate, but fear doesn't have to be legitimate; it's fear.
Maybe they are scared of disability generally (many people are), maybe they're scared of the extra care that'll be required. Maybe they are they thinking of quality of life, for the child but also for themselves.
I believe there is an instinct to destroy just as there is one to nurture, the former being triggered by fear and especially fear of the other, the unknown.
If the mother in this case is a true and extreme perfectionist, then I can see that being grounds for insanity, especially given the mental stress on new mothers.
I think the woman in the story was not diagnosed with post partum depression but she was obsessed with her child being perfect. My theory is that new mothers are under social pressure to have a child without disability and so it's normal to internalise social stigma. Most mother's eventually reconcile disability if their child is diagnosed. Some women (like the one in the article) are less able to cope and choose drastic action. This woman was clearly fearful of the just the prospect of disability. This should give some idea how strongly ingrained that the idea a person is different is barely accepted or tolerated.
ASPartOfMe
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08 Mar 2017, 3:16 am
An extreme example of the attitudes behind helicopter parenting.
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08 Mar 2017, 3:32 am
ASPartOfMe wrote:
An extreme example of the attitudes behind helicopter parenting.
A society where perfection is mandated in children is in Japan. Culturally disability is considered a social shame that must be hidden.
In Japanese they call it "Tofugu" where a disabled person is likened (literally) to a nail that sticks out in wood and needs to be hammered in. Likewise a handicapped person must be "hammered" in and hidden from view to avoid bringing shame to the family.
What is surprising is that the Japanese have infact internalised western views (but in a rather fanatic way). According to Prof James Trent (author of the "rise of the Feeble Mind") by the beginning of the 19th century, the rise of modernity put greater emphasis on "normality". A good citizen was one who had the ability to be productive and self-reliant. A new class of professionals thus emerged whose careers were devoted to managing human health and behaviour.
By the mid-19th century, these changes had contributed to the identification of “feeblemindedness” as a social problem that needed to be identified and treated. Feeblemindedness was a broad category that included people with intellectual disabilities, but also others who were deemed "unproductive" or immoral, such as immigrants, people of colour and the poor.
ASPartOfMe
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08 Mar 2017, 10:33 am
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
An extreme example of the attitudes behind helicopter parenting.
A society where perfection is mandated in children is in Japan. Culturally disability is considered a social shame that must be hidden.
In Japanese they call it "Tofugu" where a disabled person is likened (literally) to a nail that sticks out in wood and needs to be hammered in. Likewise a handicapped person must be "hammered" in and hidden from view to avoid bringing shame to the family.
What is surprising is that the Japanese have infact internalised western views (but in a rather fanatic way). According to Prof James Trent (author of the "rise of the Feeble Mind") by the beginning of the 19th century, the rise of modernity put greater emphasis on "normality". A good citizen was one who had the ability to be productive and self-reliant. A new class of professionals thus emerged whose careers were devoted to managing human health and behaviour.
By the mid-19th century, these changes had contributed to the identification of “feeblemindedness” as a social problem that needed to be identified and treated. Feeblemindedness was a broad category that included people with intellectual disabilities, but also others who were deemed "unproductive" or immoral, such as immigrants, people of colour and the poor.
America has been moving in that direction the last few decades, especially among the middle and upper classes. The language is not as blunt as it apparently is in Japan. The attitude is couched in motivational speaking language and tone, double speak, and New Ageisms. Most of us know the famous quote by Joseph Goebbels “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." The lie that is repeated so often it has people fooled is "diversity". Goebbels goes on to note in addition to repeating a lie the state needs to suppress dissent. That is not needed here as corporate PR campaigns combined with public shaming has done the trick.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
09 Mar 2017, 4:57 am
CockneyRebel wrote:
That's one sad example of the obsession with perfection that young people around the world have these days. It's an epidemic. If people expect their own children to be perfect, they're better off not having kids.
Why 'these days' though? Haven't people always held these attitudes?
lostonearth35
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09 Mar 2017, 11:59 am
I think society's value of human life is getting lower every day. It's like we're not allowed to have any imperfections at all even though we're human beings and therefore none of us are anywhere near perfect. I even saw a video on YouTube last week called "My Child Is Not Perfect" and as soon as I read the description I disliked the video. 
09 Mar 2017, 12:49 pm
About every parent wants their kid to be "normal." They don't want a NICU baby or a baby with health problems or a baby who will live in pain for the rest of their lives or have a baby that can't use their arm or leg or can't hear or see or have a baby that can't walk or go to the bathroom or have a baby that will never be independent like the rest of the adults, etc.
Some choose to just abort before their baby is born because they don't want them to live through that and some choose to have their baby and spend all their time with it as much as they can before they pass and for those with disabilities that won't die from it, they do what they can to help their child so they can be independent as much as they can by adulthood. And few just flat out kill them even if their baby is normal but they are so afraid they won't be. What if my parents have decided to kill me thinking I will never learn to talk and be independent so just kill me so I won't end up in a institution. My mom did blame my problems on herself thinking she did something wrong when she was pregnant or when she would have a hard time controlling me she also blamed herself wondering what did she do wrong. All parents want their kids to be normal so they blame themselves for their issues and try and find excuses to justify their problems. I also think it's normal to refuse to accept your kid's disability so you keep trying to work with them to help them overcome their problems or unless these parents are in the minority.
I do think there is pressure on how kids should be and that is why there is more diagnoses these days or more kids on the IEP labeled by the school district.
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ASPartOfMe
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09 Mar 2017, 3:51 pm
League_Girl wrote:
About every parent wants their kid to be "normal." They don't want a NICU baby or a baby with health problems or a baby who will live in pain for the rest of their lives or have a baby that can't use their arm or leg or can't hear or see or have a baby that can't walk or go to the bathroom or have a baby that will never be independent like the rest of the adults, etc.
Some choose to just abort before their baby is born because they don't want them to live through that and some choose to have their baby and spend all their time with it as much as they can before they pass and for those with disabilities that won't die from it, they do what they can to help their child so they can be independent as much as they can by adulthood. And few just flat out kill them even if their baby is normal but they are so afraid they won't be. What if my parents have decided to kill me thinking I will never learn to talk and be independent so just kill me so I won't end up in a institution. My mom did blame my problems on herself thinking she did something wrong when she was pregnant or when she would have a hard time controlling me she also blamed herself wondering what did she do wrong. All parents want their kids to be normal so they blame themselves for their issues and try and find excuses to justify their problems. I also think it's normal to refuse to accept your kid's disability so you keep trying to work with them to help them overcome their problems or unless these parents are in the minority.
I do think there is pressure on how kids should be and that is why there is more diagnoses these days or more kids on the IEP labeled by the school district.
Some choose to just abort before their baby is born because they don't want them to live through that and some choose to have their baby and spend all their time with it as much as they can before they pass and for those with disabilities that won't die from it, they do what they can to help their child so they can be independent as much as they can by adulthood. And few just flat out kill them even if their baby is normal but they are so afraid they won't be. What if my parents have decided to kill me thinking I will never learn to talk and be independent so just kill me so I won't end up in a institution. My mom did blame my problems on herself thinking she did something wrong when she was pregnant or when she would have a hard time controlling me she also blamed herself wondering what did she do wrong. All parents want their kids to be normal so they blame themselves for their issues and try and find excuses to justify their problems. I also think it's normal to refuse to accept your kid's disability so you keep trying to work with them to help them overcome their problems or unless these parents are in the minority.
I do think there is pressure on how kids should be and that is why there is more diagnoses these days or more kids on the IEP labeled by the school district.
I think parents of all eras do want do not want their kids to suffer and would love their kids to be perfect. What we are discussing here is the increasing intolerance and panic about flaws and the lessening of the realization and acceptance that kids are different, that kids mature at different rates, and that kids need time and space to mature and figure who they are who they are not. When I was growing up nursery school was a luxury, now the kids who do not go to nursery school will be way behind their kindergarten peers. If going to pre school makes any difference in the long run is questionable.
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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Sweetleaf
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09 Mar 2017, 4:41 pm
CockneyRebel wrote:
That's one sad example of the obsession with perfection that young people around the world have these days. It's an epidemic. If people expect their own children to be perfect, they're better off not having kids.
Umm the woman was 41, not really an example of young people, so how again does this apply to young people of today? Perhaps this isn't a problems specific to young people of today, come to think of it most cases of baby murders I've heard of haven't been done by young people per say. Just another example of someone digging for things to blame on those of us under 30.
I think most young people of today would be appalled of they idea of murdering a baby actually, especially just for having a condition he/she had no choice in.
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09 Mar 2017, 4:45 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
That's one sad example of the obsession with perfection that young people around the world have these days. It's an epidemic. If people expect their own children to be perfect, they're better off not having kids.
Umm the woman was 41, not really an example of young people, so how again does this apply to young people of today? Perhaps this isn't a problems specific to young people of today, come to think of it most cases of baby murders I've heard of haven't been done by young people per say. Just another example of someone digging for things to blame on those of us under 30.
I think most young people of today would be appalled of they idea of murdering a baby actually, especially just for having a condition he/she had no choice in.
Exactly, that's what I was trying to say.
Child murder and infanticide are not new or increasing things, on grounds of disability or otherwise.
Look at how children with disabilities were treated in the past.
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09 Mar 2017, 4:50 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
About every parent wants their kid to be "normal." They don't want a NICU baby or a baby with health problems or a baby who will live in pain for the rest of their lives or have a baby that can't use their arm or leg or can't hear or see or have a baby that can't walk or go to the bathroom or have a baby that will never be independent like the rest of the adults, etc.
Some choose to just abort before their baby is born because they don't want them to live through that and some choose to have their baby and spend all their time with it as much as they can before they pass and for those with disabilities that won't die from it, they do what they can to help their child so they can be independent as much as they can by adulthood. And few just flat out kill them even if their baby is normal but they are so afraid they won't be. What if my parents have decided to kill me thinking I will never learn to talk and be independent so just kill me so I won't end up in a institution. My mom did blame my problems on herself thinking she did something wrong when she was pregnant or when she would have a hard time controlling me she also blamed herself wondering what did she do wrong. All parents want their kids to be normal so they blame themselves for their issues and try and find excuses to justify their problems. I also think it's normal to refuse to accept your kid's disability so you keep trying to work with them to help them overcome their problems or unless these parents are in the minority.
I do think there is pressure on how kids should be and that is why there is more diagnoses these days or more kids on the IEP labeled by the school district.
Some choose to just abort before their baby is born because they don't want them to live through that and some choose to have their baby and spend all their time with it as much as they can before they pass and for those with disabilities that won't die from it, they do what they can to help their child so they can be independent as much as they can by adulthood. And few just flat out kill them even if their baby is normal but they are so afraid they won't be. What if my parents have decided to kill me thinking I will never learn to talk and be independent so just kill me so I won't end up in a institution. My mom did blame my problems on herself thinking she did something wrong when she was pregnant or when she would have a hard time controlling me she also blamed herself wondering what did she do wrong. All parents want their kids to be normal so they blame themselves for their issues and try and find excuses to justify their problems. I also think it's normal to refuse to accept your kid's disability so you keep trying to work with them to help them overcome their problems or unless these parents are in the minority.
I do think there is pressure on how kids should be and that is why there is more diagnoses these days or more kids on the IEP labeled by the school district.
I think parents of all eras do want do not want their kids to suffer and would love their kids to be perfect. What we are discussing here is the increasing intolerance and panic about flaws and the lessening of the realization and acceptance that kids are different, that kids mature at different rates, and that kids need time and space to mature and figure who they are who they are not. When I was growing up nursery school was a luxury, now the kids who do not go to nursery school will be way behind their kindergarten peers. If going to pre school makes any difference in the long run is questionable.
Not sure what you are talking about if anything there there is increasing tolerance and acceptence, to the horror of some people who prefer a more 'pull yourself up by your own bootstraps' approach. If anything people complain about too much coddling and turning your children into special snowflakes if you aren't harsh enough with them or aren't letting them fend for themselves enough with things like bullying or being singled out by teachers/school staff.
A lot of us younger people grew up in a system were we were expected to learn the same, at the same rates and the same way without acknowledgment of different learning styles and things and were unhappy with it...so as for younger people having kids I think they're more likely to challenge that style of schooling rather than defend it.
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10 Mar 2017, 1:53 am
ASPartOfMe wrote:
America has been moving in that direction the last few decades, especially among the middle and upper classes. The language is not as blunt as it apparently is in Japan. The attitude is couched in motivational speaking language and tone, double speak, and New Ageisms. Most of us know the famous quote by Joseph Goebbels “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." The lie that is repeated so often it has people fooled is "diversity". Goebbels goes on to note in addition to repeating a lie the state needs to suppress dissent. That is not needed here as corporate PR campaigns combined with public shaming has done the trick.
In the pre-industrial era disabled people were actually cared for by the village they lived in (hence the oft said term it takes a village to care etc...). Often you heard terms like the village "cripple" to describe those with physical disability and village "idiot" to describe those with cognitive impairment. In the modern context these descriptions are considered unkind but what's interesting is these people were integral to the village culture and given importance even if they were not productive, some like "Ivar the boneless" rose to become kings.
The industrialisation of Europe gave rise to the concept that some humans were non-productive in a commercial sense and therefore were no longer valued. This was codified in eugenics and the rise of Binet's metrics and development of IQ tests to sort out those not worthy of social importance or capable of productive labor. Fascism and authoritarian governments (China and Romania) took this one step further by exterminating those whom they designated unfit for living.
The current climate seems to be shifting back to that way of thinking
ASPartOfMe
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10 Mar 2017, 4:48 am
Sweetleaf wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
About every parent wants their kid to be "normal." They don't want a NICU baby or a baby with health problems or a baby who will live in pain for the rest of their lives or have a baby that can't use their arm or leg or can't hear or see or have a baby that can't walk or go to the bathroom or have a baby that will never be independent like the rest of the adults, etc.
Some choose to just abort before their baby is born because they don't want them to live through that and some choose to have their baby and spend all their time with it as much as they can before they pass and for those with disabilities that won't die from it, they do what they can to help their child so they can be independent as much as they can by adulthood. And few just flat out kill them even if their baby is normal but they are so afraid they won't be. What if my parents have decided to kill me thinking I will never learn to talk and be independent so just kill me so I won't end up in a institution. My mom did blame my problems on herself thinking she did something wrong when she was pregnant or when she would have a hard time controlling me she also blamed herself wondering what did she do wrong. All parents want their kids to be normal so they blame themselves for their issues and try and find excuses to justify their problems. I also think it's normal to refuse to accept your kid's disability so you keep trying to work with them to help them overcome their problems or unless these parents are in the minority.
I do think there is pressure on how kids should be and that is why there is more diagnoses these days or more kids on the IEP labeled by the school district.
Some choose to just abort before their baby is born because they don't want them to live through that and some choose to have their baby and spend all their time with it as much as they can before they pass and for those with disabilities that won't die from it, they do what they can to help their child so they can be independent as much as they can by adulthood. And few just flat out kill them even if their baby is normal but they are so afraid they won't be. What if my parents have decided to kill me thinking I will never learn to talk and be independent so just kill me so I won't end up in a institution. My mom did blame my problems on herself thinking she did something wrong when she was pregnant or when she would have a hard time controlling me she also blamed herself wondering what did she do wrong. All parents want their kids to be normal so they blame themselves for their issues and try and find excuses to justify their problems. I also think it's normal to refuse to accept your kid's disability so you keep trying to work with them to help them overcome their problems or unless these parents are in the minority.
I do think there is pressure on how kids should be and that is why there is more diagnoses these days or more kids on the IEP labeled by the school district.
I think parents of all eras do want do not want their kids to suffer and would love their kids to be perfect. What we are discussing here is the increasing intolerance and panic about flaws and the lessening of the realization and acceptance that kids are different, that kids mature at different rates, and that kids need time and space to mature and figure who they are who they are not. When I was growing up nursery school was a luxury, now the kids who do not go to nursery school will be way behind their kindergarten peers. If going to pre school makes any difference in the long run is questionable.
Not sure what you are talking about if anything there there is increasing tolerance and acceptence, to the horror of some people who prefer a more 'pull yourself up by your own bootstraps' approach. If anything people complain about too much coddling and turning your children into special snowflakes if you aren't harsh enough with them or aren't letting them fend for themselves enough with things like bullying or being singled out by teachers/school staff.
A lot of us younger people grew up in a system were we were expected to learn the same, at the same rates and the same way without acknowledgment of different learning styles and things and were unhappy with it...so as for younger people having kids I think they're more likely to challenge that style of schooling rather than defend it.
As referenced in the post above look at not what they say but what they do. Hovering over kids and managing them 24/7 is not accepting them for who they are. Pathologizing them for missing a few markers is not accepting difference. 25 to 40 hours a week of ABA is not accepting them for who they are. Different learning styles is not progress when it is often same goal of making them normal.
I am not advocating going all they way back to the '60's that I grew up in but count me among those old fogeys that think that giving kids time to develop on thier own and letting them suffer consequences to a certain degree helps them define thier individuality. Different learning styles means s**t if the preffered outcome is the same.
The group think has changed but it is still group think. The "special snowflakes" are named that way in part because they can not handle different thinking to point of bullying others who think differently and god forbid use a word they consider racist. And I do think they are reflecting how they were taught by thier parents and schools.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
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