Gay Trump Supporter Claims He Was Discriminated

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friedmacguffins
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20 Jun 2017, 10:36 am

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There is a difference between privilege and rights.


We are apparently discussing god-given / natural / inherent rights, as opposed to those which are granted by special permission.

Do people, in a non-sexual context have a right not to participate, without validating the paraphilias of others. Can they choose not to be engaged by it, or is special permission required. Does there need to be a special exception, like a designated space for heteros, who would rather not be engaged. Is it a bad thing to say, like segregation.

That different sexual things exist, in the abstract sense, was never a problem. We don't put it on office stationary or the altar.



AspieUtah
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20 Jun 2017, 11:26 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
Quote:
There is a difference between privilege and rights.

We are apparently discussing god-given / natural / inherent rights, as opposed to those which are granted by special permission.

Do people, in a non-sexual context have a right not to participate, without validating the paraphilias of others. Can they choose not to be engaged by it, or is special permission required. Does there need to be a special exception, like a designated space for heteros, who would rather not be engaged. Is it a bad thing to say, like segregation.

That different sexual things exist, in the abstract sense, was never a problem. We don't put it on office stationary or the altar.

Natural rights and civil rights might come from two different legal realms, but they are enforced all the same.


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friedmacguffins
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20 Jun 2017, 11:33 am

A long haul trucker, in a neighborhood, by the freeway, takes a leak, on a fence, and now reports as a sex offender. In the right venue, all he has to do is tie a pretty bow on it. Should the right not to participate be enforceable.

Everyone has big plans.

Noone seems to be able to do them, without me. You need my money, and my sayso, or leave me out of it.



Kraichgauer
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20 Jun 2017, 2:39 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
SH90 wrote:
Extra rights would be a stretch; but extra privileges and opportunities, yes.


You've just said it one way, then, the other way, in the same sentence. :wink:

Kraichgauer wrote:
I want equality not just in opportunity, but also in the legal system, and in political participation. And no, even today not everyone is given that equality promised to them.


It causes traditional conservatives to turn-down opportunities to participate, in greater society. It makes plain people the exception to the rule, who feel that they need safespaces and niche businesses.

I have been saying that, if I was to propose a new internet law, like the Streissand Effect or Godwin's Law, it would say that status exists as a limited quantity. No more will ever be created. It cannot be given to one person, without taking it from another.

Your status has come at the expense of others, who were making no literal attempt at policing your bedroom. Committing fashion crimes or being mildly swishy are not religious crimes, and people already accepted that it exists.


So, are you saying your traditional conservatives are no longer participating in public life because people who had been shafted due to race, religion, sexual orientation, etc, are now participating ins said public life? If so, then that's the problem that traditional conservatives have, and need to work out for themselves.
Are we supposed to just let groups who have been given the short end of the stick continue to get the short end of the stick, so that those already reaping the benefits of America won't have to lose out if those shorted groups gain opportunities and equal status? Well, it's a conservative/reactionary lie that someone gaining rights and status takes away from someone already receiving said rights and status. In a nation like ours, where equal rights and opportunities are assured to everyone in the first place, nothing is taken from someone else; it's just a matter of those groups and individuals who had been left out finally can claim what was always promised to him or her.


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Shrapnel
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20 Jun 2017, 7:17 pm

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I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.


The meaning of King's quote is clear: Special consideration for one group based on ethnicity, (and I will extend it to gender or gender preference) is a violation of that dream. Liberals like the idea of the quote but they left the principles behind the quote a long time ago.
Character has fallen out of fashion.



Kraichgauer
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20 Jun 2017, 7:32 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
Quote:
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.


The meaning of King's quote is clear: Special consideration for one group based on ethnicity, (and I will extend it to gender or gender preference) is a violation of that dream. Liberals like the idea of the quote but they left the principles behind the quote a long time ago.
Character has fallen out of fashion.



And yet conservatives have an abysmal record for judging one's skin color. Every reactionary attempt to undo civil rights gains has been done by the right.


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friedmacguffins
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20 Jun 2017, 7:44 pm

You shut down businesses with an us-or-them kind-of attitude.

And, I can understand identity politics.

I just call it what it is. If or when I do that, I am intellectually-honest and admit to it.

You don't.



cyberdad
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20 Jun 2017, 7:57 pm

SH90 wrote:
In my experience, liberals are full of hate.

Which ignores the flaming obvious that it's right wingers in the American heartland form "hate groups"
Amusing how many conservative white christian folk who believe that gay people are damned to hell
In that respect even muslims are more enlightened
http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-am ... kely-to-su



Kraichgauer
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20 Jun 2017, 8:11 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
You shut down businesses with an us-or-them kind-of attitude.

And, I can understand identity politics.

I just call it what it is. If or when I do that, I am intellectually-honest and admit to it.

You don't.


The only businesses that have been shut down were those who have violated the rights of others due to identity politics.
Sure, I acknowledge identity politics. If a group of people have been discriminated against, then it only makes sense to stand with others of your group for strength, whether you are black, gay, or any other.


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20 Jun 2017, 8:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
If a group of people have been discriminated against, then it only makes sense to stand with others of your group for strength, whether you are black, gay, or any other.


How did liberals arrive at the conclusion that, for the left, political violence qualifies as free speech, whereas for the right, free speech qualifies as political violence?



Kraichgauer
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20 Jun 2017, 10:16 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If a group of people have been discriminated against, then it only makes sense to stand with others of your group for strength, whether you are black, gay, or any other.


How did liberals arrive at the conclusion that, for the left, political violence qualifies as free speech, whereas for the right, free speech qualifies as political violence?


Only raging a$$holes think violence is political speech.


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EzraS
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21 Jun 2017, 2:34 am

cyberdad wrote:
SH90 wrote:
In my experience, liberals are full of hate.

Which ignores the flaming obvious that it's right wingers in the American heartland form "hate groups"
Amusing how many conservative white christian folk who believe that gay people are damned to hell
In that respect even muslims are more enlightened
http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-am ... kely-to-su


Know of many LGBT friendly Christian churches. There's one near where I live that has a large rainbow banner displayed.

Are there any Islamic mosques that display LGBQ banners or flags?

How open are LGBT people in Islamic countries? How are they treated?



EzraS
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21 Jun 2017, 2:38 am

Liberalism seems to largely consist of white people who hate white people.



Kraichgauer
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21 Jun 2017, 10:43 am

EzraS wrote:
Liberalism seems to largely consist of white people who hate white people.


Have you ever seen the Democratic national convention, then compare them to their Republican counterparts? The Democrats have a healthy mix of different ethnicities, whereas the Republicans are almost entirely lily white.
No, white liberals don't hate white people; we just don't want to whitewash history anymore, but want to redress past wrongs.


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AspieUtah
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21 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Liberalism seems to largely consist of white people who hate white people.

Have you ever seen the Democratic national convention, then compare them to their Republican counterparts? The Democrats have a healthy mix of different ethnicities, whereas the Republicans are almost entirely lily white.
No, white liberals don't hate white people; we just don't want to whitewash history anymore, but want to redress past wrongs.

Oh, yes. The Democratic National Convention. Having attended two conventions, should I describe my run-ins with the Secret Service agents, or how Florida delegates flooded the Utah delegation seats (and refused to leave) when Joe Lieberman accepted the nomination for vice president? Seats are highly regulated and can be seen by ushers as theft (especially when recorded votes are pending and delegates are required to sit with their own delegations or leave the convention floor). Needless to say, some Florida VIPs without credentials probably still despise Utah for having them ejected from their "Joementum" moment.

Racial compositions at DNC Convention are dictated to the state parties, and affirmative action and quotas still control much of the process. Even Democraic super delegates loathe the quotas. The Republican National Convention doesn't make such artificial requirements and lets each delegate be who they are without the help of quotas.

I learned enough about the Democratic Party in my years with it to realize that I wanted nothing to do with its practices (which have nothing to do with its recognized ideals).


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EzraS
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21 Jun 2017, 11:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Liberalism seems to largely consist of white people who hate white people.


Have you ever seen the Democratic national convention, then compare them to their Republican counterparts? The Democrats have a healthy mix of different ethnicities, whereas the Republicans are almost entirely lily white.
No, white liberals don't hate white people; we just don't want to whitewash history anymore, but want to redress past wrongs.


Some people say that just ends up keeping past wrongs and the tensions connected to them alive and in the forefront. When Morgan Freeman was asked how are we going to get rid of racism he said, stop talking about it. But I think maybe the conservatives are nazis and liberals love everyone, except all those nazis, is really just a DNC political propaganda strategy.