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ASS-P
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25 Sep 2017, 5:09 am

...When John Kerry ran for President, his wife stepped in doo-doo this way. She is an immigrant to the US. She came from Mozambique. Mozambique was a Portugese colony, during the period of Europe taking almost all of Africa. Her parents were ethnically Portugese. She at least once referred to herself as African-American, getting some :roll: for that.
She is correct, of course, as regards where she came from as an immigrant to America. As far as " African-American " meaning " black ", an ethnically Sub-Saharan person goes, she of course is not.


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cyberdad
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25 Sep 2017, 6:47 am

ASS-P wrote:
...When John Kerry ran for President, his wife stepped in doo-doo this way. She is an immigrant to the US. She came from Mozambique. Mozambique was a Portugese colony, during the period of Europe taking almost all of Africa. Her parents were ethnically Portugese. She at least once referred to herself as African-American, getting some :roll: for that.
She is correct, of course, as regards where she came from as an immigrant to America. As far as " African-American " meaning " black ", an ethnically Sub-Saharan person goes, she of course is not.


Doesn't that mean Charlize Theron is African American?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlize_Theron

Doubt the "nice" policeman would make the same mistake they did with the Sudanese man



SH90
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25 Sep 2017, 8:15 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
Another shooting in the US. Big surprise.


Thankfully we have heros like Robert Engle, who confronted the gunman. Engle went to his car grabbing his legally owned handgun and headed back into the church. Where he held up Samson at gunpoint until the police arrive.

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Robert Engle, Hero



SH90
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25 Sep 2017, 8:37 am

cyberdad wrote:
Doesn't that mean Charlize Theron is African American?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlize_Theron

Doubt the "nice" policeman would make the same mistake they did with the Sudanese man


It's a gray area and left up to the individual. As I previously said, I dated a white guy from South Africa. He was born and raised in South Africa, with lots of roots in Africa. He was asked at some point while setting up legal residency in America (later becoming a citizen) his race. He chose African, because that's where he's from and always identified as being African (we chose what we identify mostly as, when the parents are different nationalities and/or race). Today he identifies as African American, a title he is proud of and earned.

Another example, myself. I am mixed race, Asian and White. I can only pick one for identification purposes. I appear more white, then I do Asian. I was raised by my grandmother and mom, both immigrants (dad died very young). When I got my license, I was asked my race. I chose Asian. It's what I always identified as and the only roots I know for sure; besides ultimately growing up in a Asian culture. Never had a issue, government officials never bat an eye when my license comes up Asian. It serves me better and offers more protection being a minority...



ASPartOfMe
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25 Sep 2017, 9:52 am

The term used most by official sources these days in America is "person of color". "Black" is still used and considered racist only by the politically correct crowd. "Black" might be starting to fade but it is not antiquated like "Negro".

Funny how in most things in life people are shortening expressions such as using "IMHO" instead of "In My Humble Opinion" but politically correct people insist on long awkward people first terms like "person of color", "person with autism".


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cyberdad
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25 Sep 2017, 5:00 pm

SH90 wrote:
Another example, myself. I am mixed race, Asian and White. I can only pick one for identification purposes. I appear more white, then I do Asian.


I'm a big science fiction/anime fan and you guys (Eurasians) are the image portrayed of what the future of the human race is. Also have an unfair advantage in the attractiveness stakes...



cyberdad
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25 Sep 2017, 5:04 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
but politically correct people insist on long awkward people first terms like "person of color", "person with autism".

political correctness is really not that much of a cognitive burden, it just requires a little tweaking of language to indicate the language user is cognizant of historical oppression and treats everyone with same consideration and public decorum.



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25 Sep 2017, 7:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
but politically correct people insist on long awkward people first terms like "person of color", "person with autism".

political correctness is really not that much of a cognitive burden, it just requires a little tweaking of language to indicate the language user is cognizant of historical oppression and treats everyone with same consideration and public decorum.


That is nice when the historically oppressed groups are consulted on the matter. Autistics have not been. I have seen no polling or even antidotal evidence suggesting most "people of color" prefer that term over "black". And it often involves public shaming of the person who used an expression perceived as offensive, which goes well beyond a little tweaking of language.


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cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 12:20 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
That is nice when the historically oppressed groups are consulted on the matter. Autistics have not been.
what do you think would be "satisfactory" to the wider autistic community/and their families

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I have seen no polling or even antidotal evidence suggesting most "people of color" prefer that term over "black".

That requires a political will to fund such a survey, my impression is they are happy with AA. A growing number of people of color are accepting their European ancestry (particularly where its 50% or higher)

ASPartOfMe wrote:
And it often involves public shaming of the person who used an expression perceived as offensive, which goes well beyond a little tweaking of language.

Give examples



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26 Sep 2017, 12:26 am

cyberdad wrote:
SH90 wrote:
Another example, myself. I am mixed race, Asian and White. I can only pick one for identification purposes. I appear more white, then I do Asian.


I'm a big science fiction/anime fan and you guys (Eurasians) are the image portrayed of what the future of the human race is. Also have an unfair advantage in the attractiveness stakes...


Image



ASPartOfMe
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26 Sep 2017, 4:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
That is nice when the historically oppressed groups are consulted on the matter. Autistics have not been.
what do you think would be "satisfactory" to the wider autistic community/and their families

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I have seen no polling or even antidotal evidence suggesting most "people of color" prefer that term over "black".

That requires a political will to fund such a survey, my impression is they are happy with AA. A growing number of people of color are accepting their European ancestry (particularly where its 50% or higher)

ASPartOfMe wrote:
And it often involves public shaming of the person who used an expression perceived as offensive, which goes well beyond a little tweaking of language.


Give examples

The price of public shaming in the Internet age

Good Morning America’ Host Apologizes for Using Racial Slur
Quote:
Good Morning America” host Amy Robach has apologized for using the outdated racial term “colored people” on air.

“We all know Hollywood has received recent and quite a bit of criticism for casting white actors in what one might assume should be a role reserved for colored people,” Robach said during a segment about Zendaya’s role as Mary Jane in the upcoming “Spider-Man” reboot.


Robach issued an mea culpa after receiving instant backlash. Robach told the Associated Press that she meant to use the term “people of color.” She called the incident “a mistake” and said it’s “not at all a reflection of how I feel or speak in my everyday life.”


As for the wider autistic communinity they have not been asked either.

I have seen many instinces in social media and comment sections where people on the spectrum have been critisized for using autistic instead of person of color. It was really a problem a few years ago but not so much now because we gave those people hell for it. I am not offended but annoyed that nearly every media outlet uses “person with autism”. I do not go attacking people who use “person with autism” I just keep on using “autistic”. Again it is not about the words but the context. A person telling autistic people what they should find offensive or how they should identify is infintilizing.


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naturalplastic
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26 Sep 2017, 6:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
but politically correct people insist on long awkward people first terms like "person of color", "person with autism".

political correctness is really not that much of a cognitive burden, it just requires a little tweaking of language to indicate the language user is cognizant of historical oppression and treats everyone with same consideration and public decorum.


Its true that some folks exaggerate the burden of being PC. But at the same time some folks are too extreme in being PC. And the latter often make things worse by concocting unwieldy terms to replaced older terms.

And "people of Color" is a prime example because proposing to use that as a replacement for "Black" is several kinds of stupid.

For one thing its ignorantly and unwittingly reinventing the horse-and-buggy. What do you think Blacks were called before they were called "Blacks"? They were called either "Negroes", or they were called "Colored People". If you are going to reinvent the horse and buggy then be aware and be upfront about it and openly say "we all should revive the quaint term colored people" instead of making a fool of yourself by doing that unwittingly by saying "lets use this new innovative term we just came up with which is [practically the same thing as 'Colored People']".

The excessive PC crowd would probably argue that "yes when grandma called them "colored people" it was almost the same term as "people of color", but grandma's term was not "person first", and person first matters a dam.

But that's another problem. That exact phrase "people of color" has ALSO been around for a long time. But it meant "people of ANY race that is not White European" ( Malay, Eskimo, Asian Indian, American Indian, Hispanic, etc). So repurposing the phrase to mean just one subset of nonEuropean, non lilly White people (ie just folks of sub-Saharan African descent) is confusing.

So there are those problems with the term, on top of the fact that Blacks didn't invent the term and dont ID with it, and the problem that it is long and unwieldy and not brief like "Black".





For one thing its unwittingly reinventing the horse and buggy.



cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 6:53 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I am not offended but annoyed that nearly every media outlet uses “person with autism”. I do not go attacking people who use “person with autism” I just keep on using “autistic”. Again it is not about the words but the context. A person telling autistic people what they should find offensive or how they should identify is infintilizing.

In addition to consensus on what is appropriate, the convention evolves and people's attitudes to particular classifications change with time and what is considered acceptable.



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26 Sep 2017, 12:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I am not offended but annoyed that nearly every media outlet uses “person with autism”. I do not go attacking people who use “person with autism” I just keep on using “autistic”. Again it is not about the words but the context. A person telling autistic people what they should find offensive or how they should identify is infintilizing.

In addition to consensus on what is appropriate, the convention evolves and people's attitudes to particular classifications change with time and what is considered acceptable.


Which is fine and the natural way of the world, but people who missed out on the "enlightened" way of talking are not automatically bigoted haters, sometimes they are just out of touch and do not need to be shamed.issues.

PC language is not about accuracy, it is an attempt to "educate" people with what a certain group of people views as the "wrong" way of thinking. All of these long awkward phrases and shaming people for using "racist" language deflects from real discrimination. A lot of these new terms are not helpful in addressing the problem. Making every form of bigotry from using "unenlightened" words to hate crimes "racism" is an example. "Racism" was previously about racial prejudice, it got to the heart of the matter. Mexicans are not a race, how can one be "racist" against them? "Prejudiced" and "bigotry" accurately described the problem well enough. Same with "manic depression' vs "bipolar".

The GMA lady forced to grovel did nothing wrong she was getting to the heart of the matter, no Oscars for "colored people". But no, that is not good enough for these language police.


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cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 5:10 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Blacks didn't invent the term and dont ID with it, and the problem that it is long and unwieldy and not brief like "Black"


This is crux of the issue. For both autistic and "black" people the terms of social classification derive from mainstream society. There's textbook classification, polite social classification (what we are talking about) and behind closed doors classification (what mainstream people say about autistic and black people when thy think nobody is recording them or posting on a public forum)