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cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 5:12 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
PC language is not about accuracy, it is an attempt to "educate" people with what a certain group of people views as the "wrong" way of thinking. All of these long awkward phrases and shaming people for using "racist" language deflects from real discrimination. A lot of these new terms are not helpful in addressing the problem.

I don't think it needs to be this complicated. PC is largely to do with diffusing potential triggers. Using ethics it would be about beneficence (doing good) and non-maleficence (not doing harm). Education is a secondary issue.



ASPartOfMe
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26 Sep 2017, 5:45 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
PC language is not about accuracy, it is an attempt to "educate" people with what a certain group of people views as the "wrong" way of thinking. All of these long awkward phrases and shaming people for using "racist" language deflects from real discrimination. A lot of these new terms are not helpful in addressing the problem.

I don't think it needs to be this complicated. PC is largely to do with diffusing potential triggers. Using ethics it would be about beneficence (doing good) and non-maleficence (not doing harm). Education is a secondary issue.


Disagree. I think defusing triggers is a cover for a political agenda. It may have started to prevent triggers and probably many if most advocating it believe it is about triggers but we are past that and into speech codes and successful violent attempts to silence speech.


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cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 6:01 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Disagree. I think defusing triggers is a cover for a political agenda

Yes there may be a political agenda on the part of some of the left, however it really is never articulated well by the right (not surprising given the right are in principle anti-intellectual) . Much of the accusations of political agenda is therefore largely never backed up with evidence.



ASPartOfMe
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26 Sep 2017, 6:09 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Disagree. I think defusing triggers is a cover for a political agenda

Yes there may be a political agenda on the part of some of the left, however it really is never articulated well by the right (not surprising given the right are in principle anti-intellectual) . Much of the accusations of political agenda is therefore largely never backed up with evidence.


Controlling speech has been an authoritarian tactic since time immemorial.


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cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 6:11 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Disagree. I think defusing triggers is a cover for a political agenda

Yes there may be a political agenda on the part of some of the left, however it really is never articulated well by the right (not surprising given the right are in principle anti-intellectual) . Much of the accusations of political agenda is therefore largely never backed up with evidence.


Controlling speech has been an authoritarian tactic since time immemorial.


Yes but give an example of ulterior motives from the "left" that PC is subversive?



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26 Sep 2017, 6:40 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
In America, every black person is commonly called "African American".

It's equivalent to saying, "black", which is considered racist.

Not where *I* come-from----where I live, NEITHER is true. I've gotten in more trouble calling someone "African American", than I have, calling someone "black"----and, I can imagine that's quite common in major metropolitan areas (at least, over here, on the East side, and as far West, as Chicago - though, I don't know that, for FACT).




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26 Sep 2017, 6:43 pm

SH90 wrote:
I am mixed race, Asian and White. I can only pick one for identification purposes. I appear more white, then I do Asian. I was raised by my grandmother and mom, both immigrants (dad died very young). When I got my license, I was asked my race. I chose Asian. It's what I always identified as and the only roots I know for sure; besides ultimately growing up in a Asian culture. Never had a issue, government officials never bat an eye when my license comes up Asian. It serves me better and offers more protection being a minority...

Wait, wait, wait..... Lemme get my head around this..... You're a gay, First Generation, gun-totin', right-leaning, Eurasian? Couldn't you be Jewish, and Trans, TOO!?! THAT way, you'd hit ALL of the biggies, in ONE bull's-eye!! LOL (wink) My "respect quotient" for you, just jumped about 5 HUNDRED percentage points!!




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naturalplastic
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26 Sep 2017, 8:46 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Blacks didn't invent the term and dont ID with it, and the problem that it is long and unwieldy and not brief like "Black"


This is crux of the issue. For both autistic and "black" people the terms of social classification derive from mainstream society. There's textbook classification, polite social classification (what we are talking about) and behind closed doors classification (what mainstream people say about autistic and black people when thy think nobody is recording them or posting on a public forum)


Your point?



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26 Sep 2017, 10:22 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Wait, wait, wait..... Lemme get my head around this..... You're a gay,

Well, bi with a preference for men.

Campin_Cat wrote:
First Generation, gun-totin',

Yep. Handgun on my hip, rifle in the truck, few in the office, and multiple on display at home (my "special" interest).

Campin_Cat wrote:
right-leaning, Eurasian?

I don't deny leaning right, but I have some left views.

Campin_Cat wrote:
Couldn't you be Jewish, and Trans, TOO!?! THAT way, you'd hit ALL of the biggies, in ONE bull's-eye!! LOL (wink)

If I recall, I have some Jewish relatives on my father's side of the family (I don't know that side very well)... But my sister is transgender (Male-Female).

Campin_Cat wrote:
My "respect quotient" for you, just jumped about 5 HUNDRED percentage points!!

Thank :heart: A bit interesting someone had to point the cops are racist in yet another thread :roll:



cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 10:37 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Blacks didn't invent the term and dont ID with it, and the problem that it is long and unwieldy and not brief like "Black"


This is crux of the issue. For both autistic and "black" people the terms of social classification derive from mainstream society. There's textbook classification, polite social classification (what we are talking about) and behind closed doors classification (what mainstream people say about autistic and black people when thy think nobody is recording them or posting on a public forum)


Your point?


It's quite simple. Social stigma drives labels for minority groups. Minority groups don't want to be called labels that remind them of their "designated" social status that always have a historic precedence.

The mainstream population get irritated when they have to correct themselves when they refer to aforementioned minority groups and grumble why they are forced to be nice! ultimately blaming political correctness for their own ignorance.

The crux of the issue is how does a white NT speak with (or about) a disabled person or black person without offending them?



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27 Sep 2017, 12:19 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Disagree. I think defusing triggers is a cover for a political agenda

Yes there may be a political agenda on the part of some of the left, however it really is never articulated well by the right (not surprising given the right are in principle anti-intellectual) . Much of the accusations of political agenda is therefore largely never backed up with evidence.


Controlling speech has been an authoritarian tactic since time immemorial.


Yes but give an example of ulterior motives from the "left" that PC is subversive?


Creating a situation where one has to wonder if any word uttered is going to have consequence and constantly changing the rules of what is acceptable creates confusion and fear and saps the spirit of the other side.

It is a way of deamonizing the group you oppose. If he other side is evil banning them or jailing them becomes easier.

The ulterior motive is a very basic politics gain, to gain political control by demonizing and neutering the other side.


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27 Sep 2017, 1:25 am

...I have never heard of " person of color " being a synonum for " black ", only for " not white ". Some people are still known to use " Negro " in America, even persons who are themsevles black/sub-Saharan African - The black newspaper columnist Stanley Crouch used it when I read his column in the Nineties, I will assume that he still does. When the last Census happened in America, government forms still used the term " Negro " among the phrases for sSA although there was criticism of that decision.
The conservative U.S. Senate candidate Rudy Ray Moore came into criticism recently for a (non-pejorative) reference to " the reds and the yellows " in a recent speech. I remembef the Four Tops' " Keeper Of The Castle " making reference " Red, yellow, black white and brown ".. I think that " Afro- American " was floated in the 1950s, but never caught on. I seem to recall " African-American " coming up for discission about 1987 or so.


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cyberdad
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27 Sep 2017, 2:14 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Creating a situation where one has to wonder if any word uttered is going to have consequence and constantly changing the rules of what is acceptable creates confusion and fear and saps the spirit of the other side.

Yes but we have covered this ground already

ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is a way of deamonizing the group you oppose. If he other side is evil banning them or jailing them becomes easier.

Doesn't that require them knowingly and intentionally using the "slanderous term" in order to hurt another person or group? Isn't that what racists and bigots do?

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The ulterior motive is a very basic politics gain, to gain political control by demonizing and neutering the other side.

Using Orwellian analogy you are accusing the left of using "newspeak" to control what people can call each other. But I think you are confusing free speech with hate speech. All people are free to use convention. "African American" it's not really rocket science to get confused and use outdated terms like "coloured person" or "negro" because schools ensure children are exposed to correct terminology. To resort to outdated racist labels (equivalent to calling people with Aspergers retards) is at best ignorant and more likely demonstrating a lack of respect. Many white families don't socially mix with black people and I suspect when they are forced to interact it's (for them) like dealing with a foreigner (rather than a fellow American)



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27 Sep 2017, 5:52 am

cyberdad wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is a way of demonizing the group you oppose. If the other side is evil banning them or jailing them becomes easier.

Doesn't that require them knowingly and intentionally using the "slanderous term" in order to hurt another person or group? Isn't that what racists and bigots do?

No. A group takes a position a position saying do not judge cops as guilty until the facts are in. Everybody jumps all over them, their account is hacked into and shut down. Thier names are exposed to their employers as part of a "hate group".

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The ulterior motive is a very basic politics gain, to gain political control by demonizing and neutering the other side.

cyberdad wrote:
Using Orwellian analogy you are accusing the left of using "newspeak" to control what people can call each other. But I think you are confusing free speech with hate speech. All people are free to use convention. "African American" it's not really rocket science to get confused and use outdated terms like "coloured person" or "negro" because schools ensure children are exposed to correct terminology. To resort to outdated racist labels (equivalent to calling people with Aspergers retards) is at best ignorant and more likely demonstrating a lack of respect. Many white families don't socially mix with black people and I suspect when they are forced to interact it's (for them) like dealing with a foreigner (rather than a fellow American)


Hate speech is free speech in my country by a a unanimous decision of our Supreme Court. First of all, children should be exposed to "negro" and "colored person" because it is part of history. If they ever have to read old documents or news articles they need to understand often those words were often not used in a racist context. Aspergers is not equivalent to "mental retardation" unlike "Colored Person" and "black person" which is referring to the exact same people. Trying to ban "retard" has only resulted in "autistic" becoming the popular equivalent. It would be better if instead of playing word games people would deal with actual bigotry.


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27 Sep 2017, 3:51 pm

SH90 wrote:
Well, bi with a preference for men. Yep. Handgun on my hip, rifle in the truck, few in the office, and multiple on display at home (my "special" interest). I don't deny leaning right, but I have some left views. If I recall, I have some Jewish relatives on my father's side of the family (I don't know that side very well)... But my sister is transgender (Male-Female).

She COUNTS----and, the "Jewish relatives", is good----and, there's nothing wrong with "some left views"----but, I forgot one..... Too bad you're dad wasn't black!!

I just think it's extremely cool..... I mean, here you are with what some might say, is "alot of 'strikes' against you" (plus, "Aspie"), but, IMO, you're a very mature (more mature than some 40/50/60-year-olds, on here), NON-whining, THINKING, well-adjusted young man----I say: KUDOS, to YOU!!

(Okay, I'll shut-up, now----cuz, I don't wanna embarrass you, or whatever...)




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