The US is becoming like the Soviet Union

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Kraichgauer
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30 Nov 2017, 6:27 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Most of the people flooding Europe aren't from Syria and they aren't refugees.


Many who flooded into America weren't refugees, either. They in time became American.


So what? There's still massive divides in the US. Mass immigration just makes things worse.


According to people who voted for Trump.


And according to anyone who's socially conservative and people who are logical.


From my experience, social conservatism is based more on fear and prejudice than on logic.


Then you haven't really experienced it properly. It comes more from learning from mistakes and not being naive.


But what do you call "mistakes" to be learned from? Letting in too many immigrants? Recognizing LGBT citizens have the same rights as the rest of us? Extending a public safety net to keep the poor and forgotten from dying off?
And what constitutes being naive? Having a heart?


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JohnPowell
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30 Nov 2017, 7:53 pm

kokopelli wrote:
So how is the US becoming like the Soviet Union?

Are we opening Gulags in the far north to send people for political reasons?

Have we centralized planning to determine what goods and how many of those goods we will produce?

Are we building walls to keep people from escaping?

Is the government nationalizing all the businesses?

How are we becoming like the Soviet Union?


Did you not read my opening post?

Yeah, the US is doing all of that in Palestine since you mention it, apart from nationalizing the businesses, though Trump is trying to change that it seems.


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30 Nov 2017, 7:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Most of the people flooding Europe aren't from Syria and they aren't refugees.


Many who flooded into America weren't refugees, either. They in time became American.


So what? There's still massive divides in the US. Mass immigration just makes things worse.


According to people who voted for Trump.


And according to anyone who's socially conservative and people who are logical.


From my experience, social conservatism is based more on fear and prejudice than on logic.


Then you haven't really experienced it properly. It comes more from learning from mistakes and not being naive.


But what do you call "mistakes" to be learned from? Letting in too many immigrants? Recognizing LGBT citizens have the same rights as the rest of us? Extending a public safety net to keep the poor and forgotten from dying off?
And what constitutes being naive? Having a heart?


Making the welfare system like a business for those who use it. Mass immigration is a mistake yes, and denying the results is probably worse than naivety. Male and female homosexuals are the same regarding sexuality so no need for the labels there. And people are either male or female. The welfare system has pretty much created these problems. Not learning from mistakes, as I said. Got to be cruel to be kind sometimes.


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Kraichgauer
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30 Nov 2017, 8:17 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Most of the people flooding Europe aren't from Syria and they aren't refugees.


Many who flooded into America weren't refugees, either. They in time became American.


So what? There's still massive divides in the US. Mass immigration just makes things worse.


According to people who voted for Trump.


And according to anyone who's socially conservative and people who are logical.


From my experience, social conservatism is based more on fear and prejudice than on logic.


Then you haven't really experienced it properly. It comes more from learning from mistakes and not being naive.


But what do you call "mistakes" to be learned from? Letting in too many immigrants? Recognizing LGBT citizens have the same rights as the rest of us? Extending a public safety net to keep the poor and forgotten from dying off?
And what constitutes being naive? Having a heart?


Making the welfare system like a business for those who use it. Mass immigration is a mistake yes, and denying the results is probably worse than naivety. Male and female homosexuals are the same regarding sexuality so no need for the labels there. And people are either male or female. The welfare system has pretty much created these problems. Not learning from mistakes, as I said. Got to be cruel to be kind sometimes.


My country is a country of immigrants. Ending that would be the end of America.
As for the LGBT question - the west in general prides itself in valuing individualism and pluralism, and so that means accepting anyone who isn't a danger to anyone else' rights.
What's the alternative to the welfare system? Let people in need die? Nothing kind about that cruelty. Maybe there wouldn't be a need for so much welfare if business people recognized they have a responsibility to provide work and living wages for people, and not just as a means of personal enrichment.


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02 Dec 2017, 12:36 pm

Lol, no. And there's a difference between good immigration and mass immigration.
Not 'the West'. The politicians and the media. Most people don't care about identity politics. They end up leading a life that will lead to their death and other people's deaths on welfare. The key is education and employment.


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Kraichgauer
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02 Dec 2017, 4:14 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Lol, no. And there's a difference between good immigration and mass immigration.
Not 'the West'. The politicians and the media. Most people don't care about identity politics. They end up leading a life that will lead to their death and other people's deaths on welfare. The key is education and employment.


Mass immigration built my country in the 1800's.
Deaths on welfare will lead to deaths...?
I agree, the answer is employment and education. But with employment, it's a two way street. The people who hire other people actually have to live up to the responsibility of employing people with good wages. So far, they're more interested in working employees as hard as they can, with as little pay that they can get away with. Give people assurance that they will have more money and benefits with jobs than with welfare, and welfare will lose it's appeal.


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02 Dec 2017, 6:36 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I'm not the one taking sides, I'm just being logical and reasonable. I look at the evidence and the claims from both sides. I showed that the US is hardly a 'free' country if it's going to try and take down media that reports alternative views and facts it doesn't like. So you tried to turn it on me because you're losing the argument.


kokopelli wrote:
Please explain how requiring RT to register as a foreign agent takes down the media?


JohnPowell wrote:
Making the welfare system like a business for those who use it.
Mass immigration is a mistake yes, and denying the results is probably worse than naivety. Male and female homosexuals are the same regarding sexuality so no need for the labels there. And people are either male or female. The welfare system has pretty much created these problems. Not learning from mistakes, as I said. Got to be cruel to be kind sometimes.



You like to flirt with injustice don't you? Or is it the media that offends you? I'm wondering if the clues befit the legacy of how many migrants leave for a better life but, more often end up stuck as refugees on the welfare system.

It's true we can't correct a problem that has gotten bigger, but those who abuse the welfare system are those who speak ill of it, and clearly some people are using distinct labelling to pigeonhole groups pf people into one giant ethnic cleansing ritual because they can't see the benefits of how best to tow the line, not cowering into a non surplus arrangement of tending to people who are all but life's lost legacies, and I and so many others are some of those.

If we're discussing the plight of migrants, then I think a German doctrine can be drawn up not in order to rectify their past mistakes but to honour their commitments as a lead member of the E.U. It's not society's obligation or appealing to British favours that make us the number one favourite to prioritise everything around future Europeans or non Europeans, getting a job today. It doesn't just affect you, it affects everybody.

As an innocent and legal civilian of my country, I'd like to see a workplace that doesn't grow tired of people, and can co live within their means.
I have to formulate trust around me, and I have to live with a conscience of an individual rather than a stereotype, who doesn't brandishes people liars because they are maybe coming to wreck havoc in peoples lives, or destroy my country. Too many of societies members feel whiplashed by what they are incorrectly terming Thatcher's Britain.
If I had an iron fist I'd punch Junker in the face or get someone like a Russian Soviet to do it. Then they'd need the West for helping fight terror and ISIS then. I understand your concerns, but let's not bleet on about it. The country is being rebooted for another half a century that is all.
Identity politics of a nation is one thing, understanding the plight of innocent individuals is another.
Trusting the support of your people is one thing, relying off the goodwill of people is another. The state have a duty to provide, and quite often they don't provide it.
The trap of people with disabilities, (not work-focused individuals who blot out the world with far right reaching consequences for all,) is that they can't see the truth of the matter. The real issues are there, but so far, nobody is seeing it.
You're not the only face of Great Britain on this forum, so lets work together and not separate ourselves from the same thing.
We're a humble nation, we don't have to explain ourselves across the spectrum of the wider western world.



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02 Dec 2017, 7:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Lol, no. And there's a difference between good immigration and mass immigration.
Not 'the West'. The politicians and the media. Most people don't care about identity politics. They end up leading a life that will lead to their death and other people's deaths on welfare. The key is education and employment.


Mass immigration built my country in the 1800's.
Deaths on welfare will lead to deaths...?
I agree, the answer is employment and education. But with employment, it's a two way street. The people who hire other people actually have to live up to the responsibility of employing people with good wages. So far, they're more interested in working employees as hard as they can, with as little pay that they can get away with. Give people assurance that they will have more money and benefits with jobs than with welfare, and welfare will lose it's appeal.


Mass extermination did too. No excuse for it, and the US has been the most war mongering country on earth ever, and I mean the government.
People on welfare will lead to more deaths. It sends people down a road to nowhere and into a life of crime. Being dependent on the government is a real problem, but that's what the government wants.
Yes, I agree with that :)


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02 Dec 2017, 7:58 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Lol, no. And there's a difference between good immigration and mass immigration.
Not 'the West'. The politicians and the media. Most people don't care about identity politics. They end up leading a life that will lead to their death and other people's deaths on welfare. The key is education and employment.


Mass immigration built my country in the 1800's.
Deaths on welfare will lead to deaths...?
I agree, the answer is employment and education. But with employment, it's a two way street. The people who hire other people actually have to live up to the responsibility of employing people with good wages. So far, they're more interested in working employees as hard as they can, with as little pay that they can get away with. Give people assurance that they will have more money and benefits with jobs than with welfare, and welfare will lose it's appeal.


Mass extermination did too. No excuse for it, and the US has been the most war mongering country on earth ever, and I mean the government.
People on welfare will lead to more deaths. It sends people down a road to nowhere and into a life of crime. Being dependent on the government is a real problem, but that's what the government wants.
Yes, I agree with that :)


I'm not sure how bringing up America's indefensible history of genocide is relevant to this discussion.
It's hardly the case that most people on welfare turn to crime, save in Newt Gingrich's troubled mind.
I seriously don't believe the government wants people dependent on government; it's just the case that so many people are, due to the collapse of the industrial base with all it's high paying jobs, and how most businesses pull out of poor neighborhoods, leaving the people there without any means of employment.
I'm glad we agree on something. :lol:


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02 Dec 2017, 9:01 pm

What was this topic again?

Oh.. I think it was along the many.. conflicted lines of.. Why is America becoming like the Soviet Union. Then I just realised, every topic virtually at the moment on this sub forum is speaking about life death and poverty in every single sense, Act One Scene 41.

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I wish people would just celebrate their country of birth instead of pretending they got a visa to visit the states and cause further unnecessary conflict. Britain is not America.



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03 Dec 2017, 5:24 pm

As compared to the complete sanity that just abounded during the eight very long years of Obama?


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03 Dec 2017, 6:20 pm

MidnightMoon wrote:
As compared to the complete sanity that just abounded during the eight very long years of Obama?


I had no problem with the Obama years, save for the loony right accusing him of being a gay, Muslim, member of a radical black church, born in Kenya, which were empowered by obstructionist congressional Republicans who were motivated solely by keeping him a one term President.


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03 Dec 2017, 6:26 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
So how is the US becoming like the Soviet Union?

Are we opening Gulags in the far north to send people for political reasons?

Have we centralized planning to determine what goods and how many of those goods we will produce?

Are we building walls to keep people from escaping?

Is the government nationalizing all the businesses?

How are we becoming like the Soviet Union?


Did you not read my opening post?

Yeah, the US is doing all of that in Palestine since you mention it, apart from nationalizing the businesses, though Trump is trying to change that it seems.


I did read your opening post. Nowhere in it do you explain how requiring the a press organization owned by a foreign government that has along history of having goals completely antithetical to the United States to register as a foreign agent is making us like the Soviet Union. All you did was make an allegation with no argument for that allegation.

So tell us how that means that we are becoming like the Soviet Union?

How much do you even remember about the Soviet Union?



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03 Dec 2017, 8:08 pm

kokopelli wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
How are we becoming like the Soviet Union?


Did you not read my opening post?

Yeah, the US is doing all of that in Palestine since you mention it, apart from nationalizing the businesses, though Trump is trying to change that it seems.


I did read your opening post. Nowhere in it do you explain how requiring the a press organization owned by a foreign government that has along history of having goals completely antithetical to the United States to register as a foreign agent is making us like the Soviet Union. All you did was make an allegation with no argument for that allegation.

So tell us how that means that we are becoming like the Soviet Union?

How much do you even remember about the Soviet Union?


There is a distinct possibility he is approaching this perspective from a national contribution method, that we can buy out Trump, because the act of 'socialism' has driven their moral values over the edge.
I don't know what place he is in right now, but unlike him, everybody is dying to know where the money should be coming from, and he is saying, it should be out of benefits as a bigger tax initiative to save on more money and grant it to the E.U, upon bailout. Shows how much he cares about civilians, and is using it as a ransom propaganda tool to
tally to Americas thinking.
John Powell, you don't live in America, or Palestine, you live in England. Why pretend you're from these other countries if you're just going to spout off lies and evil about the righteousness of the right wing campaigns?
The U.K aren't for war, civil rights is open game because no one has given it a second thought before.
This isn't a third world crisis for them, it's just delivering more opening credits for the right wing establishments.
I agree, that nothing about the title, is going to be true, because Trump has also sided with us, he isn't just an idiot, he's a seedy, manipulative, challenging, past selling businessman who can't say to himself, ''Stop! '',even when his think tank has reached melting point. His views are over the driving limit for accident prone pensioners and we can't even cut off the fuel reserves on him, as they are one of the Worlds largest Oil distributers, besides those in the Arab Emirates.



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04 Dec 2017, 12:29 pm

Empathy wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I'm not the one taking sides, I'm just being logical and reasonable. I look at the evidence and the claims from both sides. I showed that the US is hardly a 'free' country if it's going to try and take down media that reports alternative views and facts it doesn't like. So you tried to turn it on me because you're losing the argument.


kokopelli wrote:
Please explain how requiring RT to register as a foreign agent takes down the media?


JohnPowell wrote:
Making the welfare system like a business for those who use it.
Mass immigration is a mistake yes, and denying the results is probably worse than naivety. Male and female homosexuals are the same regarding sexuality so no need for the labels there. And people are either male or female. The welfare system has pretty much created these problems. Not learning from mistakes, as I said. Got to be cruel to be kind sometimes.



You like to flirt with injustice don't you? Or is it the media that offends you? I'm wondering if the clues befit the legacy of how many migrants leave for a better life but, more often end up stuck as refugees on the welfare system.

It's true we can't correct a problem that has gotten bigger, but those who abuse the welfare system are those who speak ill of it, and clearly some people are using distinct labelling to pigeonhole groups pf people into one giant ethnic cleansing ritual because they can't see the benefits of how best to tow the line, not cowering into a non surplus arrangement of tending to people who are all but life's lost legacies, and I and so many others are some of those.

If we're discussing the plight of migrants, then I think a German doctrine can be drawn up not in order to rectify their past mistakes but to honour their commitments as a lead member of the E.U. It's not society's obligation or appealing to British favours that make us the number one favourite to prioritise everything around future Europeans or non Europeans, getting a job today. It doesn't just affect you, it affects everybody.

As an innocent and legal civilian of my country, I'd like to see a workplace that doesn't grow tired of people, and can co live within their means.
I have to formulate trust around me, and I have to live with a conscience of an individual rather than a stereotype, who doesn't brandishes people liars because they are maybe coming to wreck havoc in peoples lives, or destroy my country. Too many of societies members feel whiplashed by what they are incorrectly terming Thatcher's Britain.
If I had an iron fist I'd punch Junker in the face or get someone like a Russian Soviet to do it. Then they'd need the West for helping fight terror and ISIS then. I understand your concerns, but let's not bleet on about it. The country is being rebooted for another half a century that is all.
Identity politics of a nation is one thing, understanding the plight of innocent individuals is another.
Trusting the support of your people is one thing, relying off the goodwill of people is another. The state have a duty to provide, and quite often they don't provide it.
The trap of people with disabilities, (not work-focused individuals who blot out the world with far right reaching consequences for all,) is that they can't see the truth of the matter. The real issues are there, but so far, nobody is seeing it.
You're not the only face of Great Britain on this forum, so lets work together and not separate ourselves from the same thing.
We're a humble nation, we don't have to explain ourselves across the spectrum of the wider western world.


We can correct the problem, stop creating refugees!

Can you try and get to your point a bit quicker please.


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JohnPowell
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04 Dec 2017, 12:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
MidnightMoon wrote:
As compared to the complete sanity that just abounded during the eight very long years of Obama?


I had no problem with the Obama years, save for the loony right accusing him of being a gay, Muslim, member of a radical black church, born in Kenya, which were empowered by obstructionist congressional Republicans who were motivated solely by keeping him a one term President.


Those crazy claims about Obama just hurt those making them really. You might of had no problem with him, but all the people murdered by him and their families did. It's just that the pathetic mainstream media didn't report his crimes.


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