Teen sex slave jailed for killing her abuser

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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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26 Nov 2017, 3:35 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Is this forum populated by pedophiles or something?

Part of my ASD is that I have "flat affect" ... my whole life ... I seldom made facial expressions.

So.... raw/blind emotion is muted, and supplanted by a reason-based response.

My reason-based responses are not "supportive of pedophiles".


What you call reason-based I call callous. I am not alexithymic and I am capable of empathizing with others, and yet I can think rationally at the same time. Emotion and reason are not opposing concepts. You seem to subscribe to the myth that emotion is the enemy of reason.

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... of-reason/

http://www.theoryofknowledge.net/ways-o ... nd-reason/



EzraS
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26 Nov 2017, 4:38 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Is this forum populated by pedophiles or something?

Part of my ASD is that I have "flat affect" ... my whole life ... I seldom made facial expressions.

So.... raw/blind emotion is muted, and supplanted by a reason-based response.

My reason-based responses are not "supportive of pedophiles".


I am the same way. And it's people like us who would be good to have as a juror, making judgments based on objective reason.



EzraS
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26 Nov 2017, 9:58 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Is this forum populated by pedophiles or something?

Part of my ASD is that I have "flat affect" ... my whole life ... I seldom made facial expressions.

So.... raw/blind emotion is muted, and supplanted by a reason-based response.

My reason-based responses are not "supportive of pedophiles".


What you call reason-based I call callous. I am not alexithymic and I am capable of empathizing with others, and yet I can think rationally at the same time. Emotion and reason are not opposing concepts. You seem to subscribe to the myth that emotion is the enemy of reason.


You asking if WP is full of pedophiles, especially when it was part of your response to a 14 year old, seems to pretty much negate that claim.



kraftiekortie
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26 Nov 2017, 9:59 am

No, WP is not populated by pedophiles.



cberg
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27 Nov 2017, 3:19 pm

EzraS wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Pieplup wrote:
cberg wrote:
Who was nevertheless complicit in the same illegal transaction.

Regardless of that it still doens't make him abusive because it was consentual. She wasn't forced to have sex with him directly maybe by circumstances but that's still not force. And she still could have ran away from the situation and IDK not KILL SOMEONE!! ! ! ! ! ! ! SHE MADE THE CHOICE TO PULL THE TRIGGER. and if they watn to argue they shouold be argueing on the pimp not the person who got murdered. Also The title is completely misleading because a prositute getting jailed for killing the person who they sold their sex to, and then stole their stuff is not the same as a teen sex slave jailed for killing her abuser.. It's ridiculous to label the person who had sex with the prositute as and abuser while they still were doing something illegal it doesn't make them liable to be killed and then labeled and abuser if anything they should be blaming it on the pimp. Not to mention that you dind't bring up much of the backstory. They ran away from home and got into that business they are responsible for theirs actions. It's not like anyone forces them to pull the trigger. they pulled it out o their own free will.


A 14-16 year old girl cannot consent to being sexually trafficked. Only adults can consent to sex with other adults--children cannot consent. A child who has been raped her whole life does not psychologically have the capacity to consent to sex work. She ran away from rape and abuse, and was found by another rapist abuser. That is why statutory rape and sexual abuse laws exist, because children aren't capable of giving consent to have sex with adults. It's rather sad (and a bit frightening) how many people don't seem to understand that.

An adult who has sex with a child is absolutely an abuser, under ANY circumstances. What is wrong with you people that you can't see that? Is this forum populated by pedophiles or something?


Like who? The 14 year old child you're responding to? The woman who's been the most outspoken regarding this?


There's no 'contract law' or consent in here, just a really bad story. No one in it deserved to die but the girl who pulled the trigger was obviously under duress.


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cyberdad
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27 Nov 2017, 4:03 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Some facts:

1. She denied having sex with the man she killed.
2. She shot this guy in the back of his head at close range.
3. The victim was found on his bed, face-down.
4. She stole his money, some guns, and his truck too.
5. Apparently, she took $50,000 from the man.
6, She asked her friend "Reed" to help "clean out his house". Reed declined though, saying he didn't think she killed anyone.
7. She was convicted of first degree premeditated murder, felony murder, and aggravated robbery.
6. The penalty for "first degree murder" in TN is death or life in prison, see here, http://statelaws.findlaw.com/tennessee- ... urder.html
8. Here is her July 2008 trial, https://www.leagle.com/decision/intnco20090420273
9. Here is her March 2014 appeal, https://tncourts.gov/sites/default/file ... iseopn.pdf

I take the point it looks bad that she killed the man but honestly what normal middle aged man tries to procure an underaged girl for sex?

The state of Tennessee has dictated that a 16 yr old minor established to be i) diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome spectrum ii) of lower average IQ than normal iii) high on cocaine iii) coerced into prostitution and iv) exposed to physical violence and guns is somehow culpable as an adult with full capabilities for first degree murder.

Therefore the appeal, it appears in her original trial she was not well represented and hence the latest attempt by high profile female celebrities to have her case heard again.



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27 Nov 2017, 4:29 pm

People keep saying she could have ran away walked away but the problem is that is easier said than done. When you are in a dangerous situation and you fear the person you are with, you will do anything to keep it safe for you and to keep them happy so they won't harm you. For all you know if you try to call the police or run, they could hunt you down and kill you or eve kill you when they catch you calling 911. I don't know if the man kept her locked up or what but people have gotten beaten for trying to escape during human trafficking. Also this was a 16 year old girl so they don't have the same knowledge as an adult so telling a child that if they escape, their men will come and hunt them down and kill them. A kid is going to believe that. That is how they keep their victim. Heck I might even believe this too because threats scare me and I take them seriously when threatened. I can also see people with low intelligence and learning disabilities falling under this too. I am one of them so that is why I see the girl as a victim than a cold blooded murder and I totally understand that people just can't escape their abusers and just pick up the phone. I just don't understand how anyone can be this ignorant and I have never been in this situation but yet I understand? How did this happen? Even I feel I have higher empathy than most people.

I still say they failed her because instead of rescuing her and protecting her, they try her as criminal instead. The pimp should have faced the charges ad be charged for the murder and be locked away for the rest of his life. Kidnapping, rape, and murder, and trafficking.


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Sweetleaf
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27 Nov 2017, 9:41 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Looks like:
1. Her pimp tells her to "get some money".
2. She prostitutes to some random guy.
3. After sleeping with him, she kills him.
4. She steals his stuff.

We don't release murders just because they have sad life stories.


Yes she was forced to prostitute by that pimp, also the person she shot was illegally having sex with a teenage sex trafficking victim. I won't say she should have just been free to go with no consequence at all, but the person she killed was abusing her, she was also being abused and assaulted by that pimp who demanded she go out and make him some money. Considering all those factors you choose to ignore, life in prison is too harsh a sentence...and is not a good example of justice.

If you kill an innocent victim then yes life in prison does make sense in most cases, unless a person is not of sound mind and the court decides a mental health facility is more appropriate than prison. If you kill someone who is abusing you and threatens you in some way you fear for your life....life in prison hardly makes sense. What is the message than, 'don't defend yourself ever.'?

Her story would be more believable if she was "actually trying to escape" by running away from these people, or going to the police.

She wasn't trying to escape.

She got willingly into his truck, she agreed to sex for money, she took the stuff she stole back to her pimp.

Likely, so they could feed their cocaine habit.

This is straight-up murder/robbery.


So the fact that she was a teenager being sexually abused by this pimp and 'customers' shouldn't be factored into the situation at all? Its not a straight up murder/robbery if you consider that part.


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LoveNotHate
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27 Nov 2017, 10:12 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Looks like:
1. Her pimp tells her to "get some money".
2. She prostitutes to some random guy.
3. After sleeping with him, she kills him.
4. She steals his stuff.

We don't release murders just because they have sad life stories.


Yes she was forced to prostitute by that pimp, also the person she shot was illegally having sex with a teenage sex trafficking victim. I won't say she should have just been free to go with no consequence at all, but the person she killed was abusing her, she was also being abused and assaulted by that pimp who demanded she go out and make him some money. Considering all those factors you choose to ignore, life in prison is too harsh a sentence...and is not a good example of justice.

If you kill an innocent victim then yes life in prison does make sense in most cases, unless a person is not of sound mind and the court decides a mental health facility is more appropriate than prison. If you kill someone who is abusing you and threatens you in some way you fear for your life....life in prison hardly makes sense. What is the message than, 'don't defend yourself ever.'?

Her story would be more believable if she was "actually trying to escape" by running away from these people, or going to the police.

She wasn't trying to escape.

She got willingly into his truck, she agreed to sex for money, she took the stuff she stole back to her pimp.

Likely, so they could feed their cocaine habit.

This is straight-up murder/robbery.


So the fact that she was a teenager being sexually abused by this pimp and 'customers' shouldn't be factored into the situation at all? Its not a straight up murder/robbery if you consider that part.

The question to ask yourself is, "if she gets out and murders one of your family members are you OK with the criminal justice system for letting her out?"

The same is true of all criminal types ... if we let them out .. we take risk that they'll repeat .... how comfortable are you .... *if you're their next victim*

Will you tell yourself, "it was worth the risk."


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27 Nov 2017, 10:24 pm

Well arguably the basis of any criminal justice system is that we're all members of one contiguous family anyway, so that's something of a forgone conclusion if we view it in the context of serving the common good anyway.


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cyberdad
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28 Nov 2017, 1:20 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
The question to ask yourself is, "if she gets out and murders one of your family members are you OK with the criminal justice system for letting her out?"

The same is true of all criminal types ... if we let them out .. we take risk that they'll repeat .... how comfortable are you .... *if you're their next victim*

Will you tell yourself, "it was worth the risk."


This is a lame argument that can be directed at every single ex murderer let out on parole after serving their minimum sentence

The girl has clearly rehabilitated despite being in maximum security and treated as an adult, I doubt very much she is going to get violent given she doesn't have a history of violence except when she was in the extenuating circumstance that led to the demise of the aforementioned paedophile



EzraS
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28 Nov 2017, 3:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Some facts:

1. She denied having sex with the man she killed.
2. She shot this guy in the back of his head at close range.
3. The victim was found on his bed, face-down.
4. She stole his money, some guns, and his truck too.
5. Apparently, she took $50,000 from the man.
6, She asked her friend "Reed" to help "clean out his house". Reed declined though, saying he didn't think she killed anyone.
7. She was convicted of first degree premeditated murder, felony murder, and aggravated robbery.
6. The penalty for "first degree murder" in TN is death or life in prison, see here, http://statelaws.findlaw.com/tennessee- ... urder.html
8. Here is her July 2008 trial, https://www.leagle.com/decision/intnco20090420273
9. Here is her March 2014 appeal, https://tncourts.gov/sites/default/file ... iseopn.pdf

I take the point it looks bad that she killed the man but honestly what normal middle aged man tries to procure an underaged girl for sex?

The state of Tennessee has dictated that a 16 yr old minor established to be i) diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome spectrum ii) of lower average IQ than normal iii) high on cocaine iii) coerced into prostitution and iv) exposed to physical violence and guns is somehow culpable as an adult with full capabilities for first degree murder.

Therefore the appeal, it appears in her original trial she was not well represented and hence the latest attempt by high profile female celebrities to have her case heard again.


I don't see any problem with a retrial. If the evidence agaist her is solid, it should stand up. If not then she should have a new judgement entered based on that. But that doesn't mean she would necessarily be released. It might just be reduced to 25 years (minus time served). Or maybe even 25 years before just being able to apply for probation.

If she had shot the guy and just ran for her life, there could be a strong self defence cliam. But apparently that's not what happened.



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28 Nov 2017, 3:58 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Looks like:
1. Her pimp tells her to "get some money".
2. She prostitutes to some random guy.
3. After sleeping with him, she kills him.
4. She steals his stuff.

We don't release murders just because they have sad life stories.


Yes she was forced to prostitute by that pimp, also the person she shot was illegally having sex with a teenage sex trafficking victim. I won't say she should have just been free to go with no consequence at all, but the person she killed was abusing her, she was also being abused and assaulted by that pimp who demanded she go out and make him some money. Considering all those factors you choose to ignore, life in prison is too harsh a sentence...and is not a good example of justice.

If you kill an innocent victim then yes life in prison does make sense in most cases, unless a person is not of sound mind and the court decides a mental health facility is more appropriate than prison. If you kill someone who is abusing you and threatens you in some way you fear for your life....life in prison hardly makes sense. What is the message than, 'don't defend yourself ever.'?

Her story would be more believable if she was "actually trying to escape" by running away from these people, or going to the police.

She wasn't trying to escape.

She got willingly into his truck, she agreed to sex for money, she took the stuff she stole back to her pimp.

Likely, so they could feed their cocaine habit.

This is straight-up murder/robbery.


I agree with you on this. If she had killed her pimp, then I might have thought it was justified. But killing a john so that she can rob him is pure and simply murder.



kokopelli
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28 Nov 2017, 4:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
An adult who has sex with a child is absolutely an abuser


Yes that was also obvious to me but the judge (and some users here on WP) seem to believe the prosecution case that the girl lied about her age and therefore the "john" thought it was ok to have sex with her.

One quick look at her as a 16 yr old makes it obvious she looks like a kid. I find it disturbing that if a child walks up to a grown man then the man is (supposedly) entitled to have sex with them if they use the excuse "they look older". That argument hasn't worked for some pedophiles here in Australia so it's a lame excuse.

In any case older married men should not be trawling the streets looking for schoolgirls


I've met people who were in their 20's who looked more like 12. The first time I saw my younger brother's roommate in college, I thought that he was 8-10 years old, not the 18 years old that he actually was.

I've also met people in their teens who looked like they were 21 or older.

In any event, you are correct that the age they look is immaterial. What matters is their real age.

From what I understand, it used to be the case in my state that a girl's sexual history was material. If a man was charged with having sex with an under-aged prostitute, he had a defense if he could show that she was a prostitute. Since then, the law has changed and now there is no defense to the charge.



cyberdad
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28 Nov 2017, 3:43 pm

kokopelli wrote:
From what I understand, it used to be the case in my state that a girl's sexual history was material. If a man was charged with having sex with an under-aged prostitute, he had a defense if he could show that she was a prostitute. Since then, the law has changed and now there is no defense to the charge.


Which is strange because I thought prostitution is illegal in most US states?
How does a judge determine if a girl looks older than her actual age?



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02 Dec 2017, 2:23 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
From what I understand, it used to be the case in my state that a girl's sexual history was material. If a man was charged with having sex with an under-aged prostitute, he had a defense if he could show that she was a prostitute. Since then, the law has changed and now there is no defense to the charge.


Which is strange because I thought prostitution is illegal in most US states?
How does a judge determine if a girl looks older than her actual age?


I'm not sure why he'd need to determine if a girl looks older than her actual age. It's her age, not how she looks.

Prostitution is illegal in most US states, but so is using the services of a prostitute. It being a defense if he could show she was a prostitute was based on her being sexually promiscuous. Obviously, a teenage prostitute would necessarily be sexually promiscuous.

It also applied to underage girls who weren't prostitutes. If you could show that they were sexually promiscuous then you had a defense.