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At least 17 dead in Florida School Shooting

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SH90
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28 Feb 2018, 5:28 am

Because those regulations do nothing to prevent violent crimes and only negatively affect those who abide the law. In most instances turning many hard working Americans into overnight felons. Criminals have a complete disregard for the law and will only ignore them... America’s biggest problem in recent years, is going soft on violent criminals. Allowing them to plea down to a lesser charge and in some instances, they can still come out and leagaly buy a firearm.



DarthMetaKnight
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28 Feb 2018, 5:54 am

SH90 wrote:
Cars are a privilege and guns are a right.


Why do you say that? Is this another reference to the American Constitution?

The Founding Fathers of the United States were great men, but they were not perfect. They were flawed human beings. For example, they fought to give white people democracy but they still owned slaves.

If the Founding Fathers were not perfect, neither is the US Constitution.

Addionally, the founding fathers lived in a very different world. Cars did not exist yet. Guns were very different from modern firearms. Most spree killers nowadays don't use muskets.


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28 Feb 2018, 10:06 am

The second amendment is also one of the most badly written things out there. It doesn't actually say that people "Have a right to bear arms", so much as "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." With variations on punctuation depending on which copy you look at.

Is this about the states rights to have a militia? A limit on federal powers to regulate guns (leaving this up to the state)? This has not always been interpreted as meaning that an individual is guaranteed the right to bear arms.

Also, what are arms? We had a significant "arms race" with the Soviet Union during the cold war. Does the 2nd Amendment also grant the right of private citizens to own nuclear weapons?

Allowing people in rural states to have hunting rifles seems very different from allowing people in high density states to have assault rifles.



goldfish21
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28 Feb 2018, 12:15 pm

SH90 wrote:
Because those regulations do nothing to prevent violent crimes and only negatively affect those who abide the law. In most instances turning many hard working Americans into overnight felons. Criminals have a complete disregard for the law and will only ignore them... America’s biggest problem in recent years, is going soft on violent criminals. Allowing them to plea down to a lesser charge and in some instances, they can still come out and leagaly buy a firearm.


..except for in every other country in the world that has stricter gun control laws to keep guns out of the hands of violent criminals where they're effective in doing so and gun violence rates are far lower.. meanwhile law abiding citizens can still own guns.

Why is it that any time it's proposed in the USA that gun laws be stricter to keep them out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them that gun nuts go on the defensive and think that means taking guns away from law abiding people? Bizarre!

..also super weird how every time there's a mass shooting the NRA types' solution is "More guns!" and each time the gun supply is increased, and then somehow, every single time, it seems to have the exact opposite effect considering there's yet another school shooting, then another, and another.. is there some sort of "optimal guns," number that simply hasn't been manufactured yet for their to be peace in American schools? Apparently it's not 360 Million. Is it 500 Milion? 1 Billion guns? Just keep flooding the country with ever more guns until there are so many guns there isn't physical space for bullets to move through the air anymore?


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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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28 Feb 2018, 12:21 pm

^^ Because this is not merely a non-learning culture, it is an anti-learning culture. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect, and it's in desperate need of containment.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markmurphy ... 3d3e3e5d7c

In the meantime, here's a kitten image subroutine for your Google Chrome: it filters out Trump images and replaces them with kittens https://www.boredpanda.com/trump-chrome ... ens-again/

Sorry for just dropping the links in, I need to scramble and run errands; but they both seem germane at this point.


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28 Feb 2018, 12:27 pm

Shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz had swastikas on ammunition magazines

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Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz had swastikas ammunition magazines he brought into Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Feb. 14, a federal law enforcement source with direct knowledge of the investigation told CBS News on Tuesday. Cruz has been charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder.

Cruz had 180 rounds of ammunition left, a source confirmed to CBS News.

Sources told CBS News that Cruz broke a third-floor window, possibly to fire upon people from above. Sources say he tried to create a "sniper's nest" by shooting out the window, firing 16 rounds into the glass, CBS News correspondent Manuel Bojorquez reports. But the hurricane-proof glass appeared to have stopped it from shattering, Bojorquez reports.

Investigators believe the suspect tried to reload, but after changing magazine clips, his gun may have jammed, Bojorquez adds. Cruz then allegedly put down his weapon and left the building, blending in with other students.

Police said Cruz told them he had "brought additional loaded magazines to the school campus and kept them hidden in a backpack until he got on campus to begin his assault."

Jordan Jereb, the leader of white nationalist group Republic of Florida, had initially claimed Cruz was a member of his group but later walked back the claim and local law enforcement said there was no proof that Cruz and Jereb ever met.


https://nypost.com/2018/02/27/alleged-school-shooters-mom-paid-50k-to-adopt-him-from-drug-addict/
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Duvaney, who lived next door to the family from 1999 to 2002, said Nik displayed signs he was deeply troubled even as a toddler and that “everybody dropped the ball on him.”

“He threw my 4-month-old into the pool. My son was crawling on the back patio and he threw my son into the pool. And Nikolas was only 2 then,” she said.


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auntblabby
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01 Mar 2018, 3:24 am

in amuuurica at least, why is there a 21 year minimum age for obtaining alcohol, but not so for guns?



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01 Mar 2018, 4:52 am

Before the Gun Control Act of 1968 there was no law in regard to minimum age and guns could be bought and received though the mail. Where there mass shootings in schools back then? Could it be that the answer lies elsewhere or should we just pretend that it's because of guns since guns are icky and scare us?


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But there weren't no such thing as "assault rifles" back then.

The AR-15 has been commercially available since 1964. Several years before that the M-1 carbine was available and those take 15 and/or 30 round magazines, too.


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01 Mar 2018, 5:32 am

Raptor wrote:
Before the Gun Control Act of 1968 there was no law in regard to minimum age and guns could be bought and received though the mail. Where there mass shootings in schools back then?


School shootings are not a new thing. The first one happened in 1764.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

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Could it be that the answer lies elsewhere or should we just pretend that it's because of guns since guns are icky and scare us?


Well ... guns have come a long way since the olden days.


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01 Mar 2018, 11:51 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Before the Gun Control Act of 1968 there was no law in regard to minimum age and guns could be bought and received though the mail. Where there mass shootings in schools back then?


School shootings are not a new thing. The first one happened in 1764.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Quote:
Could it be that the answer lies elsewhere or should we just pretend that it's because of guns since guns are icky and scare us?


Well ... guns have come a long way since the olden days.


That and just the sheer number of guns. How many guns were in America pre-1968? How many more have been added each year? Now that there are more than 360 Million of them, they're practically readily available as weapons of opportunity EVERYWHERE as there are literally more guns than people. It is easier to find a gun in America than another person. And there are a lot of people. Think about that for a minute. Easy access to guns has enabled crazies who should never be able to even hold a gun to reach out and grab one like it's a candy in a dish.


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17 Mar 2018, 11:51 am

The sheer incompetence in law enforcement in this case baffles me to no end. I am mostly wanting to know why...

a) nobody entered the school to subdue Nikolas Cruz, despite the loss of 17 students. (yet, if the report was that a black student was in the restroom possessing a tiny amount of marijuana--boom, instant arrest).

b) mass shootings aren't prosecuted as acts of terrorism, unless a radicalized socio-political ideology is involved.


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goldfish21
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22 Mar 2018, 6:37 pm

Image


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22 Mar 2018, 6:55 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Image


Yes, so true, it makes the same amount of sense (i.e. none). And all of this nonsense about "the right to bear arms"; it says "arms" - i.e. armaments, so why do the gun nuts stop at semi-automatics? Why don't they protest their inability to purchase machine-guns, howitzers and nukes? After all, it says in their constitution that they have the "right" to bear them. There is just no logic to their stupid arguments.



Lintar
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22 Mar 2018, 7:00 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Image


Australia three? I haven't heard of ANY. I don't suppose you could list and/or link to them?



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23 Mar 2018, 6:37 am

One should not put too much faith in the accuracy of memes. Although I'm sure far too many do.



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23 Mar 2018, 7:23 am

EzraS wrote:
One should not put too much faith in the accuracy of memes. Although I'm sure far too many do.


The meme that shows Trump saying "I'd run as a Republican because they're dumb and watch Fox News..." (or something like that) was debunked. Though I am no fan of Trump.


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