Nerve agent used in UK - attempted murder of Russian spy

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JohnPowell
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19 Mar 2018, 8:22 pm

Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ElleGaunt wrote:
Sorry, homer simpson dude, I'm confused: why don't you think it's Putin? Like really, on a gut level, what motivates you to seek out evidence and argue that it wasn't him.

I don't believe you actually believe what you're saying.


Because he's said he loves Russia more than his own country, and apparently has embraced this new era of the strongman lock, stock, and barrel.


OK, you've crossed the line now with your keyboard warrior nonsense. Accuse me of being a traitor. I'm not someone who supports mass immigration pushed by TRAITORS into my country. I love my country more than you love yours. I hate corrupt, lying treacherous politicians who sell their country down the river to those with real power, where as you sing for those types in the US. My government has let in Jihadist ISIS fighters from Iraq as 'asylum seekers', not telling the patents who adopted him that he had been trained how to make bombs by ISIS in Iraq. He then went on to try and blow up a train on our underground station. I would never have let the guy in the country where as you would call anyone racist who tried to stop that. Our SAS most likely trained the Manchester bombing terrorist attacker in Libya, where he was coming back and forth from. I'd have let him rot out there, where as the politicians you support are very much responsible for the dead people in the Manchester arena. CHILDREN!! !

I am a nationalist and want to see the traitors in my parliament dragged through Traitors Gate at the Tower of London and punished for treason. You support these kind of traitors. Trump is a nationalist amd thinks he's doing what's best for the country, unlike the traitors around him that know they are selling the US down the river. Putin is also a nationalist and does what he thinks is best for Russia. There's zero evidence for any of these insane claims about Russia but there's loads of evidence for attacks on your country by your alleged main ally, but you're too scared to admit it. So easy just to make up fake stories about Russia.


Admittedly, I may have gotten you a bit confused with Lintar. You two come across as practically the same person.


Hey, I am NOT "John Powell". HE seems to believe that Putin is, in spite of his rather nasty habit of murdering spies and journalists who know too much, good for Russia. I do not, and I have told him so.

As for whether or not this latest incident in England was ordered by "the Kremlin", the evidence thus far gathered suggests it was. I am not blind to what is wrong with Russia and the world today, and if all indicators point to this heinous act having been ordered by Vlad Putin, then that will be yet one more reason to treat that scumbag like Hitler 2.0.


I don't think he's good for Russia. It's just that his enemies are even worse.

Well given that there isn't any evidence, that's a pretty bold statement. How was Skirpal attacked? Do you even know?

Right, another Hitler. Every enemy of the 'West' is the new Hitler and if a leader isn't aggressive with them they are Neville Chamberlain. Horrific and embarrassing propaganda.


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JohnPowell
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19 Mar 2018, 8:28 pm

Lintar wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
Quote:
"Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism


It's called practicing what you preach. If Andres Breivik said that O.J Simpson was a bad guy for killing people, what would you say?


I would agree with Breivik. If something is objectively true, it doesn't matter who proclaims it, or why. If Hitler (or Hillary, or Donald, or Vlad) said the Earth isn't flat, I would also agree, because it isn't flat.


Even if Breivik didn't go to prison for his mass murders and there he was lecturing us about Simpson? That's not the point. The US goes around the world destroying the world and killing millions and removing leaders cause they say they are bad guys.

But that wasn't even my original point. I was showing how many times these situations have happened where lies or "false flag attacks" have been carried out to create conflict.


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JohnPowell
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19 Mar 2018, 8:32 pm

Lintar wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nationalism is regressive. I prefer Stephen Hawkings vision of humans eventually leaving this planet, nothing like extraterrestrial colonisation to cure us of this stupid mental problem and stop playing games where we draw stupid lines in the sand like children in a playground that we don't cross.


Yes, it most definitely is regressive. And idiotic, arbitrary, and something that by now we should have long ago given up (like human sacrifice, slavery, and all forms of fundamentalism).

I often come out in support of Russia here not because I am Russian (or a "Russian troll/bot"), but because, among many other things, I realise the danger that pushing a nation like Russia into a corner by encircling it with hostile military bases can lead to. It could seriously backfire, it could directly lead to war.

People who believe that "Russia needs to be contained" simply have NO idea, they do not understand Russian history, or anything at all about the country. Attempts to "contain" Germany lead directly to the two World Wars, and are we really so hungry for World War No. 3? The direct Russian intervention in the Ukraine (which Putin STILL denies!) was primarily motivated by a need to prevent that country from joining N.A.T.O., which, from a U.S. perspective, would be like Canada joining the Warsaw Pact or some other potentially hostile military alliance. Do at least TRY to see things from their perspective for a change, before mouthing off about how "dangerous Russia is"! Putin may be a crooked, murdering kleptocrat, but he isn't stupid. He's not the one bombing defenseless civilians in remote parts of the world using drones (Bush started that, and Obama enthusiastically embraced the idea). When it comes to murder, mayhem and attempts to impose its will, the U.S. is most certainly number one, but Russia is perhaps a distant third (after China).

Edit: I'm not singling you specifically out here regarding this, just pointing out what should not need to be emphasised because it should be rather obvious to anyone who is at all connected to the world outside their bedroom. If anything, I have Kraich... whatever, who apparently believes all he is told on C.N.N. "Russia this, Russia that" - we're not falling for the lies anymore, because we know this is nothing but warmongering propaganda, and that is why they (the MSM) are becoming evermore shrill and hysterical in their pronouncements.


Yeah, good post.


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19 Mar 2018, 8:38 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ElleGaunt wrote:
Sorry, homer simpson dude, I'm confused: why don't you think it's Putin? Like really, on a gut level, what motivates you to seek out evidence and argue that it wasn't him.

I don't believe you actually believe what you're saying.


Because he's said he loves Russia more than his own country, and apparently has embraced this new era of the strongman lock, stock, and barrel.


OK, you've crossed the line now with your keyboard warrior nonsense. Accuse me of being a traitor. I'm not someone who supports mass immigration pushed by TRAITORS into my country. I love my country more than you love yours. I hate corrupt, lying treacherous politicians who sell their country down the river to those with real power, where as you sing for those types in the US. My government has let in Jihadist ISIS fighters from Iraq as 'asylum seekers', not telling the patents who adopted him that he had been trained how to make bombs by ISIS in Iraq. He then went on to try and blow up a train on our underground station. I would never have let the guy in the country where as you would call anyone racist who tried to stop that. Our SAS most likely trained the Manchester bombing terrorist attacker in Libya, where he was coming back and forth from. I'd have let him rot out there, where as the politicians you support are very much responsible for the dead people in the Manchester arena. CHILDREN!! !

I am a nationalist and want to see the traitors in my parliament dragged through Traitors Gate at the Tower of London and punished for treason. You support these kind of traitors. Trump is a nationalist amd thinks he's doing what's best for the country, unlike the traitors around him that know they are selling the US down the river. Putin is also a nationalist and does what he thinks is best for Russia. There's zero evidence for any of these insane claims about Russia but there's loads of evidence for attacks on your country by your alleged main ally, but you're too scared to admit it. So easy just to make up fake stories about Russia.


Admittedly, I may have gotten you a bit confused with Lintar. You two come across as practically the same person.


Hey, I am NOT "John Powell". HE seems to believe that Putin is, in spite of his rather nasty habit of murdering spies and journalists who know too much, good for Russia. I do not, and I have told him so.

As for whether or not this latest incident in England was ordered by "the Kremlin", the evidence thus far gathered suggests it was. I am not blind to what is wrong with Russia and the world today, and if all indicators point to this heinous act having been ordered by Vlad Putin, then that will be yet one more reason to treat that scumbag like Hitler 2.0.


I don't think he's good for Russia. It's just that his enemies are even worse.

Well given that there isn't any evidence, that's a pretty bold statement. How was Skirpal attacked? Do you even know?

Right, another Hitler. Every enemy of the 'West' is the new Hitler and if a leader isn't aggressive with them they are Neville Chamberlain. Horrific and embarrassing propaganda.


Point 1: Good, we both agree that he isn't good for Russia. :D
Point 2: No evidence? Well, we have two people in hospital at death's door, they both have direct connections to Russia, and the substance used to hospitalise them (Novichok, which I believe is a nerve agent like VX) could only have come from a government lab.
Point 3: Yes, you're right, we shouldn't compare Putin to Hitler. Hitler didn't have nuclear weapons.



Kraichgauer
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19 Mar 2018, 10:30 pm

Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ElleGaunt wrote:
Sorry, homer simpson dude, I'm confused: why don't you think it's Putin? Like really, on a gut level, what motivates you to seek out evidence and argue that it wasn't him.

I don't believe you actually believe what you're saying.


Because he's said he loves Russia more than his own country, and apparently has embraced this new era of the strongman lock, stock, and barrel.

I'm not someone who supports mass immigration pushed by TRAITORS into my country. I love my country more than you love yours. I hate corrupt, lying treacherous politicians who sell their country down the river to those with real power, where as you sing for those types in the US. My government has let in Jihadist ISIS fighters from Iraq as 'asylum seekers', not telling the patents who adopted him that he had been trained how to make bombs by ISIS in Iraq. He then went on to try and blow up a train on our underground station. I would never have let the guy in the country where as you would call anyone racist who tried to stop that. Our SAS most likely trained the Manchester bombing terrorist attacker in Libya, where he was coming back and forth from. I'd have let him rot out there, where as the politicians you support are very much responsible for the dead people in the Manchester arena. CHILDREN!! !

I am a nationalist and want to see the traitors in my parliament dragged through Traitors Gate at the Tower of London and punished for treason. Trump is a nationalist amd thinks he's doing what's best for the country, unlike the traitors around him that know they are selling the US down the river. Putin is also a nationalist and does what he thinks is best for Russia. There's zero evidence for any of these insane claims about Russia but there's loads of evidence for attacks on your country by your alleged main ally, but you're too scared to admit it. So easy just to make up fake stories about Russia.


Admittedly, I may have gotten you a bit confused with Lintar. You two come across as practically the same person.


Hey, I am NOT "John Powell". HE seems to believe that Putin is, in spite of his rather nasty habit of murdering spies and journalists who know too much, good for Russia. I do not, and I have told him so.

As for whether or not this latest incident in England was ordered by "the Kremlin", the evidence thus far gathered suggests it was. I am not blind to what is wrong with Russia and the world today, and if all indicators point to this heinous act having been ordered by Vlad Putin, then that will be yet one more reason to treat that scumbag like Hitler 2.0.


I was being a tad bit facetious. :lol:


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19 Mar 2018, 10:33 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ElleGaunt wrote:
Sorry, homer simpson dude, I'm confused: why don't you think it's Putin? Like really, on a gut level, what motivates you to seek out evidence and argue that it wasn't him.

I don't believe you actually believe what you're saying.


Because he's said he loves Russia more than his own country, and apparently has embraced this new era of the strongman lock, stock, and barrel.


OK, you've crossed the line now with your keyboard warrior nonsense. Accuse me of being a traitor. I'm not someone who supports mass immigration pushed by TRAITORS into my country. I love my country more than you love yours. I hate corrupt, lying treacherous politicians who sell their country down the river to those with real power, where as you sing for those types in the US. My government has let in Jihadist ISIS fighters from Iraq as 'asylum seekers', not telling the patents who adopted him that he had been trained how to make bombs by ISIS in Iraq. He then went on to try and blow up a train on our underground station. I would never have let the guy in the country where as you would call anyone racist who tried to stop that. Our SAS most likely trained the Manchester bombing terrorist attacker in Libya, where he was coming back and forth from. I'd have let him rot out there, where as the politicians you support are very much responsible for the dead people in the Manchester arena. CHILDREN!! !

I am a nationalist and want to see the traitors in my parliament dragged through Traitors Gate at the Tower of London and punished for treason. You support these kind of traitors. Trump is a nationalist amd thinks he's doing what's best for the country, unlike the traitors around him that know they are selling the US down the river. Putin is also a nationalist and does what he thinks is best for Russia. There's zero evidence for any of these insane claims about Russia but there's loads of evidence for attacks on your country by your alleged main ally, but you're too scared to admit it. So easy just to make up fake stories about Russia.

Have you any idea how much evil has been done in history in the name of nationalism? Nationalism is used by industrial and politicians to sell unjust wars and genocides.


Have you any idea how much evil has been done in the name of globalisation? It's not ideologies that are the problem, it is humans! Too many naive idiots who just follow what their governments say. I'm a nationalist and I'm against all wars. Stealing resources from other people and ending up creating wars is part of globalisation. Having to control other parts of the world and starting wars there is part of globalisation. I see nationalism as concentrating on what happens in my country and respecting every other nation to do the same.


historically, nationalists have been the first to jump at going to war.


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PearlsofWisdom
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20 Mar 2018, 6:16 pm

Besides boosting the kremlin and the White House's formidable reputation, the real question is who the poison was intended for. The only harm breached so far, has been how it passed undetected through our customs, perhaps because illegal substances such as Novochok don't get tested enough or normally
passed through customs, so maybe Moscow is testing our border controls..whilst engrossed on the style of Putins leadership.
In the documentary, 'Putin The Last Tsar", it clearly shows footage of Vladimir speaking directly to the camera about how former KGB secret spies who were who were 'asked to poison traitors, often are the ones who end up poisoned,' if found militarally exposed to anyone else.
Sergei Skripal, is a former spy who once worked as a military intelligence officer turned UK double Agent, then gets recruited by M16 in a spy swap to reveal any illegal activities being acted upon which could cause harm to the public. So whoever poisoned him and his daughter, must have had a secure motive perhaps to enhance Russian ideological patterns to threaten the west into acting against this mocking, aging,pre cursor of ties to an old Russia.
This man was not simply retired here in Salisbury, he was exported here acting on the terms he would
help our secret police in tracing any spy movement and unregulated activity here in the U.K,. As a result of his poisoning, 23 Russian Diplomats have been exported back to Russia. Lets just hope it taught Moscow a lesson, that however small a country we are, we won't tolerate this type of abuse on our shores.
I hope Mr Trump knows which side he is on..in the face of evil and tyranny.



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20 Mar 2018, 10:28 pm

PearlsofWisdom wrote:
Besides boosting the kremlin and the White House's formidable reputation, the real question is who the poison was intended for. The only harm breached so far, has been how it passed undetected through our customs, perhaps because illegal substances such as Novochok don't get tested enough or normally
passed through customs, so maybe Moscow is testing our border controls..whilst engrossed on the style of Putins leadership.
In the documentary, 'Putin The Last Tsar", it clearly shows footage of Vladimir speaking directly to the camera about how former KGB secret spies who were who were 'asked to poison traitors, often are the ones who end up poisoned,' if found militarally exposed to anyone else.
Sergei Skripal, is a former spy who once worked as a military intelligence officer turned UK double Agent, then gets recruited by M16 in a spy swap to reveal any illegal activities being acted upon which could cause harm to the public. So whoever poisoned him and his daughter, must have had a secure motive perhaps to enhance Russian ideological patterns to threaten the west into acting against this mocking, aging,pre cursor of ties to an old Russia.
This man was not simply retired here in Salisbury, he was exported here acting on the terms he would
help our secret police in tracing any spy movement and unregulated activity here in the U.K,. As a result of his poisoning, 23 Russian Diplomats have been exported back to Russia. Lets just hope it taught Moscow a lesson, that however small a country we are, we won't tolerate this type of abuse on our shores.
I hope Mr Trump knows which side he is on..in the face of evil and tyranny.


Unfortunately, Trump knows which side he wants to be on, and it's not ours.


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21 Mar 2018, 5:39 pm

It's perhaps being overlooked that a policeman is still seriously ill in hospital and the inventor of Novichok says that any members of the public who came in contact with it could possibly be affected by it in future,as the effects can be long term.This was an reckless attack on the UK,regardless of whether the main target was Sergei Skripal.
I hope the independent investigators can help to trace the source as this was a serious violation of the chemical weapons treaty.Even if it wasn't state sponsored,it's still a violation to let nerve agents fall into criminal hands.


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21 Mar 2018, 6:27 pm

pluto wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:


Unfortunately, Trump knows which side he wants to be on, and it's not ours.


It's perhaps being overlooked that a policeman is still seriously ill in hospital and the inventor of Novichok says that any members of the public who came in contact with it could possibly be affected by it in future,as the effects can be long term.


It's not being overlooked, and the policeman is stable now, not seriously ill, as he was reported as talking and stating he was no hero, and just did his job. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/r ... 86786.html This was when it first happened.
Skripal and his daughter are still in quarantine, and the rest of the public have been cautioned.
https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/article ... nt-Updates

Jun Claude Junker on the other hand, is making a last plea for E.U border controls as you do.

Image

So, you could say, we are at the hands of the Kremlin, Kim and his concubines and whoever else may want to vaildate with caution on lands not their own or through laws of their own making.



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22 Mar 2018, 3:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ElleGaunt wrote:
Sorry, homer simpson dude, I'm confused: why don't you think it's Putin? Like really, on a gut level, what motivates you to seek out evidence and argue that it wasn't him.

I don't believe you actually believe what you're saying.


Because he's said he loves Russia more than his own country, and apparently has embraced this new era of the strongman lock, stock, and barrel.


OK, you've crossed the line now with your keyboard warrior nonsense. Accuse me of being a traitor. I'm not someone who supports mass immigration pushed by TRAITORS into my country. I love my country more than you love yours. I hate corrupt, lying treacherous politicians who sell their country down the river to those with real power, where as you sing for those types in the US. My government has let in Jihadist ISIS fighters from Iraq as 'asylum seekers', not telling the patents who adopted him that he had been trained how to make bombs by ISIS in Iraq. He then went on to try and blow up a train on our underground station. I would never have let the guy in the country where as you would call anyone racist who tried to stop that. Our SAS most likely trained the Manchester bombing terrorist attacker in Libya, where he was coming back and forth from. I'd have let him rot out there, where as the politicians you support are very much responsible for the dead people in the Manchester arena. CHILDREN!! !

I am a nationalist and want to see the traitors in my parliament dragged through Traitors Gate at the Tower of London and punished for treason. You support these kind of traitors. Trump is a nationalist amd thinks he's doing what's best for the country, unlike the traitors around him that know they are selling the US down the river. Putin is also a nationalist and does what he thinks is best for Russia. There's zero evidence for any of these insane claims about Russia but there's loads of evidence for attacks on your country by your alleged main ally, but you're too scared to admit it. So easy just to make up fake stories about Russia.

Have you any idea how much evil has been done in history in the name of nationalism? Nationalism is used by industrial and politicians to sell unjust wars and genocides.


Have you any idea how much evil has been done in the name of globalisation? It's not ideologies that are the problem, it is humans! Too many naive idiots who just follow what their governments say. I'm a nationalist and I'm against all wars. Stealing resources from other people and ending up creating wars is part of globalisation. Having to control other parts of the world and starting wars there is part of globalisation. I see nationalism as concentrating on what happens in my country and respecting every other nation to do the same.


historically, nationalists have been the first to jump at going to war.


That'd be empire's. I guess the US must be the biggest nationalist country in the world then?


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22 Mar 2018, 3:06 pm

Maybe it didn't come from Russia? I remember the whole anthrax thing. It was meant to have been through Al Qaeda and Iraq but turned out it came from inside the US.


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22 Mar 2018, 4:13 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ElleGaunt wrote:
Sorry, homer simpson dude, I'm confused: why don't you think it's Putin? Like really, on a gut level, what motivates you to seek out evidence and argue that it wasn't him.

I don't believe you actually believe what you're saying.


Because he's said he loves Russia more than his own country, and apparently has embraced this new era of the strongman lock, stock, and barrel.


OK, you've crossed the line now with your keyboard warrior nonsense. Accuse me of being a traitor. I'm not someone who supports mass immigration pushed by TRAITORS into my country. I love my country more than you love yours. I hate corrupt, lying treacherous politicians who sell their country down the river to those with real power, where as you sing for those types in the US. My government has let in Jihadist ISIS fighters from Iraq as 'asylum seekers', not telling the patents who adopted him that he had been trained how to make bombs by ISIS in Iraq. He then went on to try and blow up a train on our underground station. I would never have let the guy in the country where as you would call anyone racist who tried to stop that. Our SAS most likely trained the Manchester bombing terrorist attacker in Libya, where he was coming back and forth from. I'd have let him rot out there, where as the politicians you support are very much responsible for the dead people in the Manchester arena. CHILDREN!! !

I am a nationalist and want to see the traitors in my parliament dragged through Traitors Gate at the Tower of London and punished for treason. You support these kind of traitors. Trump is a nationalist amd thinks he's doing what's best for the country, unlike the traitors around him that know they are selling the US down the river. Putin is also a nationalist and does what he thinks is best for Russia. There's zero evidence for any of these insane claims about Russia but there's loads of evidence for attacks on your country by your alleged main ally, but you're too scared to admit it. So easy just to make up fake stories about Russia.

Have you any idea how much evil has been done in history in the name of nationalism? Nationalism is used by industrial and politicians to sell unjust wars and genocides.


Have you any idea how much evil has been done in the name of globalisation? It's not ideologies that are the problem, it is humans! Too many naive idiots who just follow what their governments say. I'm a nationalist and I'm against all wars. Stealing resources from other people and ending up creating wars is part of globalisation. Having to control other parts of the world and starting wars there is part of globalisation. I see nationalism as concentrating on what happens in my country and respecting every other nation to do the same.


historically, nationalists have been the first to jump at going to war.


That'd be empire's. I guess the US must be the biggest nationalist country in the world then?


Pretty much.


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26 Jun 2018, 6:40 pm

PearlsofWisdom wrote:
Jun Claude Junker on the other hand, is making a last plea for E.U border controls as you do.

Image

So, you could say, we are at the hands of the Kremlin, Kim and his concubines and whoever else may want to vaildate with caution on lands not their own or through laws of their own making.



Just adding what I described to be a letter from Junker to Putin. The seal on the letter seemed contrived from somewhere else. I mean the signature is bad.
Some may argue that this was indeed Putin's last goal and legacy to interact with all known fugitives of a lost cause and soon to be starved European Union. The crimes of a next generation of half crazed Russian stereotypes might be the last we seen of both presidents of either union or crazed dictatorship.
The relationships from the former spy control network clearly made this freak mafia a loose target on western democratic soil with the aftertaste of what's to come next time.
Both names are tarnished, and actually, both parties make civil hands unclean.