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AspE
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10 Oct 2018, 8:27 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
They see everything in black and white and make excuses for all the evils their side carries out because it is their team doing it. Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.

Which is why Al Franken is still a senator. What did he do that was positive?



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10 Oct 2018, 8:43 pm

AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
They see everything in black and white and make excuses for all the evils their side carries out because it is their team doing it. Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.

Which is why Al Franken is still a senator. What did he do that was positive?


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Frankenstein resigned from the Senate after his so-called tryst. Frankly, good riddance to bad rubbish! I didn’t care for him even when he was on SNL.

And if you think i’m Being harsh on Democrats, I feel the same way about Dennis Hastart, the Salamander, and McCain. I’m equal opportunity on ANY politician, federal, state, or local.


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AspE
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10 Oct 2018, 9:05 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
They see everything in black and white and make excuses for all the evils their side carries out because it is their team doing it. Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.

Which is why Al Franken is still a senator. What did he do that was positive?


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Frankenstein resigned from the Senate after his so-called tryst. Frankly, good riddance to bad rubbish! I didn’t care for him even when he was on SNL.

And if you think i’m Being harsh on Democrats, I feel the same way about Dennis Hastart, the Salamander, and McCain. I’m equal opportunity on ANY politician, federal, state, or local.

I was being sarcastic. Al Franken resigned because the Democrats aren't hypocrites, was my point.



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10 Oct 2018, 9:22 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
.........Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.


I think you bring up a very good point here and I think the media gets this wrong. My opinion is that the average moderate republican or independent, and perhaps even some democrats, "middle America" has determined that the media is hysterical. 92% negative coverage of Trump. There's that joke I get a kick out of: "If Trump cured cancer, liberals would blame him for putting oncologists out of business." Going apoplectic about the way he tosses a roll of paper towels, etc. Middle America sees through that for what it is: hyperbolic unrealistic hysteria.

I think the media and the anti-Trump global machine would actually be more effective if it toned down its hysteria to a reasonable and believable level. That would give a solid Democratic opponent a realistic opposing platform to run on.

"Admittedly, Trump has done some good things. Props to him on [Fill in the blanks], but you know what? My platform is better because........"

Rather than

"This is beyond a no brainer to vote for me. SATAN wishes he was Trump. Satan is Trump's beeyotch! Satan is like Mother Theresa compared to Trump!" And on and on and on and.....

That might be very cathartic for those that hate him beyond hate to an irrational degree, but most people simply do not live like that. They just don't. I think that whole approach might backfire.


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Spooky_Mulder
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10 Oct 2018, 10:06 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
But until you give up on the idea that there is a 'lesser of the two evils."


I am a minority. You have the luxury of voting third party without it rounding back and striking you. For me, voting third party is giving a stronger possibility to the side that seeks to oppress me for the way I was born. Or in other words - voting third party or protest voting actually impacts me and my life due how I was born.

Magna wrote:
That might be very cathartic for those that hate him beyond hate to an irrational degree


Considering many minorities hate him since he's fueling the fire that's causing more attacks against those like me - that's not irrational at all [see FBI hate crime statistics on page 1]. Actually hate him wouldn't be entirely accurate since I view him as a symptom of an insidious disease - I don't hate the man, I can't bring it in me to hate another human being. But, as a minority I do detest and loathe from the very bottom of my soul what he stands for.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 10 Oct 2018, 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Oct 2018, 10:09 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
But until you give up on the idea that there is a 'lesser of the two evils."


I am a minority. You have the luxury of voting third party without it rounding back and striking you. For me, voting third party is giving a stronger possibility to the side that seeks to oppress me for the way I was born. Or in other words - voting third party or protest voting actually impacts me and my life due how I was born.


There's a lot of overt and oppressive racism among the plutocracy?


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10 Oct 2018, 10:10 pm

Magna wrote:
There's a lot of overt and oppressive racism among the plutocracy?


It seeps into every aspect of society and all economic levels of life. These people - they don't attack based upon wealth, they attack based upon how one was born. Should I remind people how "safe" the liberal Oslo camp was from the likes of Anders Behring Breivik for example - bombed a building then went about killing the children of government representatives due to his hatred for multiculturalism and immigration.

Being rich does not shield you from society's ills. Even if it did, which it doesn't, I have empathy - I care about those who were born like me that are in more precarious situations. I care about other people. So not only would I put myself more at risk, I would put my people at risk as well which is something I would never do.

Not to mention, despite Trump supporters wanting to deny it up and down. The orange ogre did say countries weren't send the "right" people and he only said "some" (some means not all, some is less than many) are good people. I happen to be from South America. So not only did the orange turd go after my people for being queer and an immigrant, he went after my family as well.

I don't hate the man, I can't bring it in me to hate another human being. But, I do detest what he stands for.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 10 Oct 2018, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Oct 2018, 10:23 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
Magna wrote:
There's a lot of overt and oppressive racism among the plutocracy?


It seeps into every aspect of society and all economic levels of life.

Being rich does not shield you from society's ills. Even if it did, which it doesn't, I have empathy - I care about those who were born like me that are in more precarious situations. I care about other people.


That makes sense.

I can understand, for example, Oprah fighting for disadvantaged minorities since she's a minority. I would be confused if Oprah also said she's disadvantaged because she's not.

You said: "seeks to oppress me" and "impacts me and my life"


I was asking the question because I don't know the answer since I'm not a member of the plutocracy and your statements made it sound like the plutocracy is or can be racially oppressive against you since you're a minority.


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10 Oct 2018, 10:26 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:

I am a minority. You have the luxury of voting third party without it rounding back and striking you. For me, voting third party is giving a stronger possibility to the side that seeks to oppress me for the way I was born. Or in other words - voting third party or protest voting actually impacts me and my life due how I was born.


I'm a bit confused. On one hand it sounds like you are saying that you're a downtrodden minority, and on the other hand you've said that you're one of the wealthy elite.



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10 Oct 2018, 10:30 pm

^ I'm not the only one that's honestly confused then.


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10 Oct 2018, 10:33 pm

Magna wrote:
You said: "seeks to oppress me" and "impacts me and my life"


Ok. Imagine the "Religious Freedom" bill that many conservatives are dreaming about comes to pass due the courts turning hard right. "Christians can now choose whom they serve - if they don't agree with how you were born, they are able to kick you out for it."

Many are also seeking to allow companies to fire people based upon their sexuality. Trump's administration has even shown that they'd go along and have no issue with this -

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/02/26/court-rules-you-cant-fire-someone-for-being-gay-after-trump-administration-claims-its-legal/

So yeah, these people are seeking to oppress me and those like me. For these not to - there would have to be little to no homophobia among the upper class which is simply not the case.

To go with a firmer example from the past that I helped (in very small part) to overcome - no amount of money would have allowed me to get married to a man if that happened to be who I fell in love with.

Money does not allow you to bypass or get around laws standing in the way. If the Religious Freedom bill comes to pass and it is used against me - all I can do is be one of many trying to bring a case to the Supreme Court and try to change the bill. Money does allow me that opportunity since I can afford the legal fees to do so, but it does not allow me to bypass it.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 10 Oct 2018, 11:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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10 Oct 2018, 11:01 pm

Spooky, I don't doubt that you've experienced oppression both as a minority and as a gay man.

This is just my perception, but sometimes you come across as claiming hierarchy of victimhood for those reasons. Look at the site you're on though. Many of us here, myself included, were picked on both verbally and physically for years and mercilessly harassed and oppressed, regardless of and no less significant of our races or sexual orientations. I think we would assist each other more if we shared a solidarity in our equally valid but different struggles.


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"Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world
I'm nothing but a stranger in this world" -Van Morrison

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EQ-14 out of 80
Rdos: Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 173 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 39 of 200
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10 Oct 2018, 11:04 pm

Magna wrote:
I think we would assist each other more if we shared a solidarity in our equally valid but different struggles.


Anyone who is with Trump or the hard right is no friend or ally of mine and never will be.

That's not so say you are a Trump supporter or hard right nor that there isn't common ground since I frankly have no idea where you align nor do I know what the "differences" you are citing are. Without knowing what these differences are, it is hard to form a proper response.

If you simply mean Republican - I'm friends and family with many and of these many they are also against Trump. I see Trumpism (or rather extremist nationalism) as a force outside of Republicanism.

Also, if I was claiming hierarchy of victimhood I wouldn't readily say that there are many who have it worse off as I did before and will again now.

Interesting side-fact: showing how prevalent bigotry even is among upper class - a childhood friend of mine (and I desperately wish I was exaggerating) became a literal Neo-Nazi relatively recently with beliefs that would even horrify some of Trump's most adamant supporters on this site or I would at least hope so.



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11 Oct 2018, 1:55 am

Spooky you're still making the mistake of making yourself and the person you're debating with the center of discussion rather than the topic itself.



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11 Oct 2018, 2:05 am

MAGNA -

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about you and me assisting each other, right? Or do you mean Democrats and Republicans assisting each other? Due to the personal manner in which you started the reply and saying "we" rather than the party names it sounds like you're talking about you and me. But I may be wrong with that.

Magna wrote:
I think we would assist each other more if we shared a solidarity in our equally valid but different struggles.


Also note to Magna, best to cut out the middle man (not saying you're going through someone, just the only person I care to discuss with in this is you). To me, you and I aren't debating since there isn't really an argument to be had between us other than we potentially view Trump differently which comes down to subjective.

Back on topic though, are you saying Democrats and Republicans or you and I assisting each other (and if so, with what - as said it's difficult to form a proper reply without the details).