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ASPartOfMe
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11 Oct 2018, 3:41 am

AspE wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
They see everything in black and white and make excuses for all the evils their side carries out because it is their team doing it. Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.

Which is why Al Franken is still a senator. What did he do that was positive?


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Frankenstein resigned from the Senate after his so-called tryst. Frankly, good riddance to bad rubbish! I didn’t care for him even when he was on SNL.

And if you think i’m Being harsh on Democrats, I feel the same way about Dennis Hastart, the Salamander, and McCain. I’m equal opportunity on ANY politician, federal, state, or local.

I was being sarcastic. Al Franken resigned because the Democrats aren't hypocrites, was my point.

They forced him out because they did not want to look like hypocrites. The picture of him emerged shortly after #MeToo started. There are some democrates that have had second thoughts and never liked him being forced out in the first place. The thinking goes something like this, yea what he did was wrong, it was his comedic instinct gone too far, he is no Harvey Weinstien, this is another example of us taking a knife to a gunfight, he would have been an effective candidate against Trump because he would have used his comedic talent to fluster Trump.

Franken urged to reverse his resignation
Quote:
At least four senators are urging Al Franken Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), who issued a statement calling for Franken's resignation, has since told him privately that he regrets doing so, according to two people familiar with the conversation. Leahy declined to comment.

“I think we acted prematurely, before we had all the facts,” said a third senator who has also called for the resignation, and has since expressed regret directly to Franken. “In retrospect, I think we acted too fast.” The senator asked not to be named because of the political sensitivity of the issue among Democrats.to reconsider resigning, including two who issued statements calling for the resignation two weeks ago and said they now feel remorse over what they feel was a rush to judgment.

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), who urged Franken not to step down to begin with — at least not before he went through an Ethics Committee investigation — said the Minnesota senator was railroaded by fellow Democrats.

“What they did to Al was atrocious, the Democrats,” said West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin in an interview for POLITICO’s Off Message podcast to post on Tuesday.


The feeling that Franken should reconsider has gained some steam outside of the Senate, too, among Democratic donors and others, including a former Republican governor of Minnesota, Arne Carlson.

“I and many other people — and specifically feminists — feel that it’s not too late, that he should not resign, and that the rush to sweep him out was ill-conceived, and we think that he has been supportive of women and women’s issues,” said Emily Jane Goodman, a retired New York state Supreme Court judge who’s helped start a Feminists for Franken group on Facebook. “Although we do deplore any kind of gender-based misconduct, we think at the same time he is entitled to a fair hearing.”

The group directly counters Gillibrand’s statement that there should be no gradations made in assessing problematic sexual conduct: “We believe it is crucial to make distinctions and to respond proportionally,” the group’s mission statement reads.


The still-raging controversy over Al Franken’s resignation, explained
Quote:
Many progressive men didn’t see the fall of Al Franken over sexual misconduct allegations as the loss of a Democratic senator. It was the loss of a progressive icon. And they haven’t moved on.

I know this because they still email me about it.


Backlash The implications of sending Al Franken packing are starting to become clear on Capitol Hill. And they are troubling.
Quote:
Members of Congress have been speaking uneasily among themselves ever since Al Franken was drummed out of the Senate by many of his Democratic colleagues in early December. Nobody wants to talk about it on the record, but politicians in both parties and in both chambers remain disturbed by how Franken was dealt with by some of his Senate colleagues. In particular, a number of Senate Democrats were bothered by how Franken was treated, as was a large but unmeasurable portion of citizens. And some of the unfortunate implications are already becoming clear.

The whole thing happened with startling speed—no deliberations, no process, and no pause for thought, it seemed. The main actors against him got increasingly worked up—and they struck at the first opportunity. The entire episode, from when the first complaint about Franken was aired to when he announced unhappily that he’d leave the Senate, took three weeks; his self-appointed prosecutors turned on a dime, at first supporting and then throwing process (consideration by the Senate ethics committee) to the wind. There wasn’t even a meeting of the party caucus to deliberate and discuss. (Male Democratic senators with misgivings didn’t want to get in the way of the women.) A group of Democratic women senators got up a head of steam; its ringleader, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, declared, a doctrine of “zero tolerance.” “Enough is enough!” became not just an expression of exasperation but a policy.

What’s particularly disturbing about the Franken affair is that a senator was driven from the seat he was elected to because he’d become inconvenient. The death knell came with the seventh—or was it the eighth?—complaint about Franken touching or patting or whatever some woman’s bottom, or in one case (following the original charge of his forcing his tongue down the complainer’s throat) asking for a kiss. Almost all of these charges were of actions before he came to the Senate and several were anonymous. But it was less these acts—immature and jerky, to be sure—that threatened to overturn the verdict of the voters of Minnesota, than the fact that the charges were continuing to be brought. (An option would be to demand good behavior or else, and leave it to the next election.)

What was the inconvenience caused the Democrats by the sudden spout of complaints about Franken? Well, you see, the Democrats—Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer weighed in, probably sounding Franken’s doom—didn’t want to have to answer the “what-about” question when they attacked the Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore for the documented charges against him of pedophilia or when they attempted a new assault on Donald Trump’s predatory behavior toward women in the past.


DONALD TRUMP’S ‘KRYPTONITE’ IN 2020 ELECTION COULD BE ‘RIDICULE’ BY AL FRANKEN, BILL MAHER SAYS
Quote:
We need Democrats to be laser-focused on the one thing that really matters—finding out what is Trump’s kryptonite,” Maher said on HBO’s Real Time show which he hosts. “I think its ridicule.”

The one thing that gets under his skin, besides red dye No. 2, is being made fun of,” Maher said, then referenced how Trump “seethed” when Obama made fun of him at the Correspondents’ Dinner.

“The hair on the back of his neck stood up, which was fascinating to watch since it’s been transplanted to the front of his head,” Maher said of Trump’s unusual hairdo

“I believe Al,” Maher said. “Are Democrats going to permanently send away one of our A-list warriors for being a waist grabber? He didn’t drive her off a bridge and leave her to drown. Can we get some perspective?”

“It’s time to get Al off the bench so he can come back and do what he does better than any other Democrat: taking down rightwing blowhards. I want to see Al Franken debate Donald Trump,” said Maher, adding, “And by the way, so do you.”


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11 Oct 2018, 8:20 am

I don't need this explained. Whether a cynical political calculation or the right thing, they didn't show a double standard when it comes to sexual assault. Even now that they realize this decision wasn't politically advantageous in the short term.



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11 Oct 2018, 9:05 am

I’m just thankful that Bill and Hill didn’t move back here after he left office.


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11 Oct 2018, 10:58 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
AspE wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
They see everything in black and white and make excuses for all the evils their side carries out because it is their team doing it. Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.

Which is why Al Franken is still a senator. What did he do that was positive?


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Frankenstein resigned from the Senate after his so-called tryst. Frankly, good riddance to bad rubbish! I didn’t care for him even when he was on SNL.

And if you think i’m Being harsh on Democrats, I feel the same way about Dennis Hastart, the Salamander, and McCain. I’m equal opportunity on ANY politician, federal, state, or local.

I was being sarcastic. Al Franken resigned because the Democrats aren't hypocrites, was my point.

They forced him out because they did not want to look like hypocrites. The picture of him emerged shortly after #MeToo started. There are some democrates that have had second thoughts and never liked him being forced out in the first place. The thinking goes something like this, yea what he did was wrong, it was his comedic instinct gone too far, he is no Harvey Weinstien, this is another example of us taking a knife to a gunfight, he would have been an effective candidate against Trump because he would have used his comedic talent to fluster Trump.

Franken urged to reverse his resignation
Quote:
At least four senators are urging Al Franken Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), who issued a statement calling for Franken's resignation, has since told him privately that he regrets doing so, according to two people familiar with the conversation. Leahy declined to comment.

“I think we acted prematurely, before we had all the facts,” said a third senator who has also called for the resignation, and has since expressed regret directly to Franken. “In retrospect, I think we acted too fast.” The senator asked not to be named because of the political sensitivity of the issue among Democrats.to reconsider resigning, including two who issued statements calling for the resignation two weeks ago and said they now feel remorse over what they feel was a rush to judgment.

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), who urged Franken not to step down to begin with — at least not before he went through an Ethics Committee investigation — said the Minnesota senator was railroaded by fellow Democrats.

“What they did to Al was atrocious, the Democrats,” said West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin in an interview for POLITICO’s Off Message podcast to post on Tuesday.


The feeling that Franken should reconsider has gained some steam outside of the Senate, too, among Democratic donors and others, including a former Republican governor of Minnesota, Arne Carlson.

“I and many other people — and specifically feminists — feel that it’s not too late, that he should not resign, and that the rush to sweep him out was ill-conceived, and we think that he has been supportive of women and women’s issues,” said Emily Jane Goodman, a retired New York state Supreme Court judge who’s helped start a Feminists for Franken group on Facebook. “Although we do deplore any kind of gender-based misconduct, we think at the same time he is entitled to a fair hearing.”

The group directly counters Gillibrand’s statement that there should be no gradations made in assessing problematic sexual conduct: “We believe it is crucial to make distinctions and to respond proportionally,” the group’s mission statement reads.


The still-raging controversy over Al Franken’s resignation, explained
Quote:
Many progressive men didn’t see the fall of Al Franken over sexual misconduct allegations as the loss of a Democratic senator. It was the loss of a progressive icon. And they haven’t moved on.

I know this because they still email me about it.


Backlash The implications of sending Al Franken packing are starting to become clear on Capitol Hill. And they are troubling.
Quote:
Members of Congress have been speaking uneasily among themselves ever since Al Franken was drummed out of the Senate by many of his Democratic colleagues in early December. Nobody wants to talk about it on the record, but politicians in both parties and in both chambers remain disturbed by how Franken was dealt with by some of his Senate colleagues. In particular, a number of Senate Democrats were bothered by how Franken was treated, as was a large but unmeasurable portion of citizens. And some of the unfortunate implications are already becoming clear.

The whole thing happened with startling speed—no deliberations, no process, and no pause for thought, it seemed. The main actors against him got increasingly worked up—and they struck at the first opportunity. The entire episode, from when the first complaint about Franken was aired to when he announced unhappily that he’d leave the Senate, took three weeks; his self-appointed prosecutors turned on a dime, at first supporting and then throwing process (consideration by the Senate ethics committee) to the wind. There wasn’t even a meeting of the party caucus to deliberate and discuss. (Male Democratic senators with misgivings didn’t want to get in the way of the women.) A group of Democratic women senators got up a head of steam; its ringleader, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, declared, a doctrine of “zero tolerance.” “Enough is enough!” became not just an expression of exasperation but a policy.

What’s particularly disturbing about the Franken affair is that a senator was driven from the seat he was elected to because he’d become inconvenient. The death knell came with the seventh—or was it the eighth?—complaint about Franken touching or patting or whatever some woman’s bottom, or in one case (following the original charge of his forcing his tongue down the complainer’s throat) asking for a kiss. Almost all of these charges were of actions before he came to the Senate and several were anonymous. But it was less these acts—immature and jerky, to be sure—that threatened to overturn the verdict of the voters of Minnesota, than the fact that the charges were continuing to be brought. (An option would be to demand good behavior or else, and leave it to the next election.)

What was the inconvenience caused the Democrats by the sudden spout of complaints about Franken? Well, you see, the Democrats—Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer weighed in, probably sounding Franken’s doom—didn’t want to have to answer the “what-about” question when they attacked the Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore for the documented charges against him of pedophilia or when they attempted a new assault on Donald Trump’s predatory behavior toward women in the past.


DONALD TRUMP’S ‘KRYPTONITE’ IN 2020 ELECTION COULD BE ‘RIDICULE’ BY AL FRANKEN, BILL MAHER SAYS
Quote:
We need Democrats to be laser-focused on the one thing that really matters—finding out what is Trump’s kryptonite,” Maher said on HBO’s Real Time show which he hosts. “I think its ridicule.”

The one thing that gets under his skin, besides red dye No. 2, is being made fun of,” Maher said, then referenced how Trump “seethed” when Obama made fun of him at the Correspondents’ Dinner.

“The hair on the back of his neck stood up, which was fascinating to watch since it’s been transplanted to the front of his head,” Maher said of Trump’s unusual hairdo

“I believe Al,” Maher said. “Are Democrats going to permanently send away one of our A-list warriors for being a waist grabber? He didn’t drive her off a bridge and leave her to drown. Can we get some perspective?”

“It’s time to get Al off the bench so he can come back and do what he does better than any other Democrat: taking down rightwing blowhards. I want to see Al Franken debate Donald Trump,” said Maher, adding, “And by the way, so do you.”


After you resign and are replaced, you can just have your old job back by reversing your resignation?


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11 Oct 2018, 11:08 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
But until you give up on the idea that there is a 'lesser of the two evils."


I am a minority. You have the luxury of voting third party without it rounding back and striking you. For me, voting third party is giving a stronger possibility to the side that seeks to oppress me for the way I was born. Or in other words - voting third party or protest voting actually impacts me and my life due how I was born.



So, I should've voted for Hillary because she, and all the wonderful Dems, are doing such a wonderful job looking out for oppressed minorities. I should ignore the fact that she is one of those most corrupt politicians in history, and that she is extremely hawkish and was spewing very dangerous rhetoric directed at Russia that could have very easily escalated into a major war. Sorry, there was no way in hell I could have done that. My hand would have frozen up before I could have filled in the oval next to her name.


I will never again vote for someone for whom I have zero respect.


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11 Oct 2018, 11:11 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
MAGNA -

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about you and me assisting each other, right? Or do you mean Democrats and Republicans assisting each other? Due to the personal manner in which you started the reply and saying "we" rather than the party names it sounds like you're talking about you and me. But I may be wrong with that.

Magna wrote:
I think we would assist each other more if we shared a solidarity in our equally valid but different struggles.


Also note to Magna, best to cut out the middle man (not saying you're going through someone, just the only person I care to discuss with in this is you). To me, you and I aren't debating since there isn't really an argument to be had between us other than we potentially view Trump differently which comes down to subjective.

Back on topic though, are you saying Democrats and Republicans or you and I assisting each other (and if so, with what - as said it's difficult to form a proper reply without the details).


No, maybe I went off topic in that I was not meaning democrats and republicans should come together, etc. I'm not a republican. The "we" I was referring to is every member of WP. "We" should come together in solidarity respecting that most of us here have been oppressed, some in horrific ways that have nothing to do with their race or sexual orientation (rape, gang rape, repeated physical violence, abuse,harassment, etc).

You've clarified that you don't actually believe you "trump" (no pun intended) people who are white and straight here from a victim of oppression degree standpoint because you're minority and homosexual. I feel I understand where you're coming from more now whereas before, it simply seemed to me that the tone of many of your posts was that you were in some incomparable league of suffering over and above others who are not minority and not homosexual. Different kind of suffering? Definitely. More suffering? Not necessarily.


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11 Oct 2018, 11:24 am

VegetableMan wrote:
Spooky_Mulder wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
But until you give up on the idea that there is a 'lesser of the two evils."


I am a minority. You have the luxury of voting third party without it rounding back and striking you. For me, voting third party is giving a stronger possibility to the side that seeks to oppress me for the way I was born. Or in other words - voting third party or protest voting actually impacts me and my life due how I was born.



So, I should've voted for Hillary because she, and all the wonderful Dems, are doing such a wonderful job looking out for oppressed minorities. I should ignore the fact that she is one of those most corrupt politicians in history, and that she is extremely hawkish and was spewing very dangerous rhetoric directed at Russia that could have very easily escalated into a major war. Sorry, there was no way in hell I could have done that. My hand would have frozen up before I could have filled in the oval next to her name.


I will never again vote for someone for whom I have zero respect.


Nah. You can vote however you like.

What I was saying is that as a minority me voting the way you do would be akin to me shooting myself in the foot. For you the important thing is not choosing an evil, for me it’s preventing bigotry against me and my people. That simple.



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11 Oct 2018, 11:26 am

VegetableMan wrote:
I'd be quite happy if the Clintons disappeared and were never heard from again.
Same here.

And they can take the Trumps with them.



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11 Oct 2018, 1:11 pm

Magna wrote:
"We" should come together in solidarity respecting that most of us here have been oppressed, some in horrific ways that have nothing to do with their race or sexual orientation (rape, gang rape, repeated physical violence, abuse,harassment, etc).


Lofty and admirable goal.

However given some are avid Trump supporters and defenders while sticking with Trump not hurting minorities in any way, despite the vast majority on and elsewhere stating, from first hand experience, that he is - not gonna happen.

As per everyone here has been bullied by someone - many are recruited into the far right because they were bullied. This is why I can’t hate Neo Nazis or KKK either. I despise what they stand for. But the more one looks into their past there usually is a tragic history there. That doesn’t give them an excuse, just being bullied doesn’t necessarily bring different people together.



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11 Oct 2018, 2:06 pm

Magna wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
.........Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.


I think you bring up a very good point here and I think the media gets this wrong. My opinion is that the average moderate republican or independent, and perhaps even some democrats, "middle America" has determined that the media is hysterical. 92% negative coverage of Trump. There's that joke I get a kick out of: "If Trump cured cancer, liberals would blame him for putting oncologists out of business." Going apoplectic about the way he tosses a roll of paper towels, etc. Middle America sees through that for what it is: hyperbolic unrealistic hysteria.

I think the media and the anti-Trump global machine would actually be more effective if it toned down its hysteria to a reasonable and believable level. That would give a solid Democratic opponent a realistic opposing platform to run on.

"Admittedly, Trump has done some good things. Props to him on [Fill in the blanks], but you know what? My platform is better because........"

Rather than

"This is beyond a no brainer to vote for me. SATAN wishes he was Trump. Satan is Trump's beeyotch! Satan is like Mother Theresa compared to Trump!" And on and on and on and.....

That might be very cathartic for those that hate him beyond hate to an irrational degree, but most people simply do not live like that. They just don't. I think that whole approach might backfire.


Haha exactly.

The Democrats don't have any policies. Their policies are now just the opposite of what Trump says or does. Unless he drops bombs on people, then they are silent or actually praise him.


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11 Oct 2018, 2:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I'd be quite happy if the Clintons disappeared and were never heard from again.
Same here.

And they can take the Trumps with them.


Amen.


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11 Oct 2018, 2:19 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

Haha exactly.

The Democrats don't have any policies. Their policies are now just the opposite of what Trump says or does. Unless he drops bombs on people, then they are silent or actually praise him.

We temporarily believed he would take a stand against Assad and Russia. That turned out to be nothing. And what would you know about anything, you get your propaganda from right wing liars.

Democrats are for saving the environment, halting climate change, clean water, clean energy, health care, regulation of financial markets, opposing Russian aggression, enforcing church state separation, affirmative action, tolerance of the LGBT community... Shall I go on? We can't help it if your regressive agenda is against all those things.



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11 Oct 2018, 3:11 pm

AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:

Haha exactly.

The Democrats don't have any policies. Their policies are now just the opposite of what Trump says or does. Unless he drops bombs on people, then they are silent or actually praise him.

We temporarily believed he would take a stand against Assad and Russia. That turned out to be nothing. And what would you know about anything, you get your propaganda from right wing liars.

Democrats are for saving the environment, halting climate change, clean water, clean energy, health care, regulation of financial markets, opposing Russian aggression, enforcing church state separation, affirmative action, tolerance of the LGBT community... Shall I go on? We can't help it if your regressive agenda is against all those things.


He has hurt Russia more than any other recent President. Yeah man, cause people like Glenn Greenwald, John Pilger and Chris Hedges are such right wing liars man.

Bahahaha. Yeah they say those things to get elected and then do the opposite. Pouring in millions of immigrants and then building millions of houses for them will be so green!! Just waffle you are talking. Russian aggression like what? Lol. The US is the most aggressive nation on earth, and Russia has countered some of their aggression. That's called defense :lol: The US's foreign policy is virtually the same regardless of which party is in. You saw with the video of the psychotic Clinton creature that she said she would "obliterate" Iran. The Democrats like to pretend they care about "minorities" to get their votes.


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11 Oct 2018, 3:24 pm

Sanctions on Russia:
In August 2017, Trump signed into law the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, or CAATSA, despite calling it “seriously flawed.” He then bypassed a congressionally mandated deadline in January to act on the bill and impose new sanctions on Russia for the election allegations.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/heres-w ... ed-do.html

Immigrants already live in houses, as most people do.



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11 Oct 2018, 3:39 pm

I'm not exactly a huge fan of the Democratic Party or the Clintons, but the notion that both parties are anywhere near equivalent is simple-minded bullshit. Trump was endorsed by Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan for christ's sake.

Meet the Horde of Neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and Other Extremist Leaders Endorsing Trump

Daily Stormer endorses Trump

The KKK is working to get out the vote...for Trump

KKK endorses Trump