House approves 5 billion for Trump’s wall

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EzraS
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21 Dec 2018, 10:29 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Yes, yes, your autism gives you the super power of no emotions, giving you the ability to see real reality where the rest of merely seeing a dream. Problem is you forget, I have the same ailment, and we do indeed have emotions just an inability to express those emotions properly. Think about what you're saying: I'm different than everyone else, I'm the only one that sees truth because of detachment. Well, hate to tell you this, you're human, just like the rest of us and you suffer from the same problems of perspective we all do: no one has the ability to see a Godlike third person omniscient view of the world. As Quintillian said: "You'll never meet a man without an agenda, merely one that claims they have none."


Again I see so much drama written there by you, leading to a ridiculous assessment of what I said. I remember you said you prefer to employ tactics to win over your audience, based on that segment in the movie Thank You for Smoking, rather than having a straightforward conversation. In other words you are putting on a performance. And once again the thread has derailed into being about you and me rather than about the subject.

Then you misinterpreted what I was saying: Thank You for Smoking illustrates a ton of rhetorical devices in an easy to follow, humorous context.


What you said is that it's all about winning over your audience.


Aristophanes wrote:
And no, what I'm saying is that you're not special, none of us are, you have bias just like everyone else, it's a part of being a living creature: personal perspective. You can claim to have no bias all you want, but you still have it even if you don't recognize it, because we all have it, it's a part of the human experience. And derailed how, we're still talking immigration, and thus the wall.


You're saying that I'm not special even though I didn't claim to be. You're saying I claim to have no bias at all, when I did not make such a claim. This is the kind of thing that makes discussions with you turn into lengthy rounds of superfluousness which makes them a waste of time. I wish you would put all the rigmarole aside and just talk.



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21 Dec 2018, 10:36 pm

EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Yes, yes, your autism gives you the super power of no emotions, giving you the ability to see real reality where the rest of merely seeing a dream. Problem is you forget, I have the same ailment, and we do indeed have emotions just an inability to express those emotions properly. Think about what you're saying: I'm different than everyone else, I'm the only one that sees truth because of detachment. Well, hate to tell you this, you're human, just like the rest of us and you suffer from the same problems of perspective we all do: no one has the ability to see a Godlike third person omniscient view of the world. As Quintillian said: "You'll never meet a man without an agenda, merely one that claims they have none."


Again I see so much drama written there by you, leading to a ridiculous assessment of what I said. I remember you said you prefer to employ tactics to win over your audience, based on that segment in the movie Thank You for Smoking, rather than having a straightforward conversation. In other words you are putting on a performance. And once again the thread has derailed into being about you and me rather than about the subject.

Then you misinterpreted what I was saying: Thank You for Smoking illustrates a ton of rhetorical devices in an easy to follow, humorous context.


What you said is that it's all about winning over your audience.


Aristophanes wrote:
And no, what I'm saying is that you're not special, none of us are, you have bias just like everyone else, it's a part of being a living creature: personal perspective. You can claim to have no bias all you want, but you still have it even if you don't recognize it, because we all have it, it's a part of the human experience. And derailed how, we're still talking immigration, and thus the wall.


You're saying that I'm not special even though I didn't claim to be. You're saying I claim to have no bias at all, when I did not make such a claim. This is the kind of thing that makes discussions with you turn into lengthy rounds of superfluousness which makes them a waste of time. I wish you would put all the rigmarole aside and just talk.


Sigh, I'm calling BS on your claim that your 'emotional detachment' has any impact on your ability to tell truth from lie when it comes to Donald Trump. That's as clear as I can state it.



EzraS
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21 Dec 2018, 10:56 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Yes, yes, your autism gives you the super power of no emotions, giving you the ability to see real reality where the rest of merely seeing a dream. Problem is you forget, I have the same ailment, and we do indeed have emotions just an inability to express those emotions properly. Think about what you're saying: I'm different than everyone else, I'm the only one that sees truth because of detachment. Well, hate to tell you this, you're human, just like the rest of us and you suffer from the same problems of perspective we all do: no one has the ability to see a Godlike third person omniscient view of the world. As Quintillian said: "You'll never meet a man without an agenda, merely one that claims they have none."


Again I see so much drama written there by you, leading to a ridiculous assessment of what I said. I remember you said you prefer to employ tactics to win over your audience, based on that segment in the movie Thank You for Smoking, rather than having a straightforward conversation. In other words you are putting on a performance. And once again the thread has derailed into being about you and me rather than about the subject.

Then you misinterpreted what I was saying: Thank You for Smoking illustrates a ton of rhetorical devices in an easy to follow, humorous context.


What you said is that it's all about winning over your audience.


Aristophanes wrote:
And no, what I'm saying is that you're not special, none of us are, you have bias just like everyone else, it's a part of being a living creature: personal perspective. You can claim to have no bias all you want, but you still have it even if you don't recognize it, because we all have it, it's a part of the human experience. And derailed how, we're still talking immigration, and thus the wall.


You're saying that I'm not special even though I didn't claim to be. You're saying I claim to have no bias at all, when I did not make such a claim. This is the kind of thing that makes discussions with you turn into lengthy rounds of superfluousness which makes them a waste of time. I wish you would put all the rigmarole aside and just talk.


Sigh, I'm calling BS on your claim that your 'emotional detachment' has any impact on your ability to tell truth from lie when it comes to Donald Trump. That's as clear as I can state it.


Maybe you see so much bs all the time because you seem to have a predilection for twisting what people say. It's just not worth the time trying to straighten it out. And if I did, you would probably then tell me I'm backpedaling.



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21 Dec 2018, 10:58 pm

Hey guys, please quit the personal sniping already and return to the topic so we don't have to lock the thread.

The topic seems simple enough. DT wants to force through the wall he's so obsessed with and because the Senate is against it, is willing to shut down part of the government in a steamroll attempt. Biff Tanner comes to mind. (From Back to the Future).


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21 Dec 2018, 10:59 pm

EzraS wrote:
Maybe you see so much bs all the time because you seem to have a predilection for twisting what people say. It's just not worth the time trying to straighten it out. And if I did, you would probably then tell me I'm backpedaling.

I don't see BS all the time, just the specific claim you make about 'emotional detachment' giving you some unique insight.

Edit: Hell, I'm probably less emotionally attached to Donald than you are, I'm so emotionally unattached I could care less if a meteor came down and struck him in the head.



Last edited by Aristophanes on 21 Dec 2018, 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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21 Dec 2018, 11:02 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
Hey guys, please quit the personal sniping already and return to the topic so we don't have to lock the thread.

The topic seems simple enough. DT wants to force through the wall he's so obsessed with and because the Senate is against it, is willing to shut down part of the government in a steamroll attempt. Biff Tanner comes to mind. (From Back to the Future).


Other presidents who have done the same thing for the same reason come to mind.



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21 Dec 2018, 11:11 pm

Which ones? I haven't followed that aspect of US politics much until a few years ago.


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21 Dec 2018, 11:15 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
Which ones? I haven't followed that aspect of US politics much until a few years ago.


List of government shutdowns

There have only been 8 in U.S. history, they've all come in the last forty years, they've all been instigated by Republican leadership. That's really all there is to know, but you can read the list for specifics.



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21 Dec 2018, 11:20 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Maybe you see so much bs all the time because you seem to have a predilection for twisting what people say. It's just not worth the time trying to straighten it out. And if I did, you would probably then tell me I'm backpedaling.

I don't see BS all the time, just the specific claim you make about 'emotional detachment' giving you some unique insight.

Edit: Hell, I'm probably less emotionally attached to Donald than you are, I'm so emotionally unattached I could care less if a meteor came down and struck him in the head.


You've mentioned seeing calling bs a lot more times than that in various threads. It's obvious that a person viewing something in a detached manner is going to see things more objectively than someone who's full of strong emotional bias. This is where you reply with something like "Oh my how wonderful it must be for you to be totally detached and completely lacking any bias whatsoever unlike us mere mortals" or something along those lines.



Last edited by EzraS on 21 Dec 2018, 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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21 Dec 2018, 11:23 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
Which ones? I haven't followed that aspect of US politics much until a few years ago.


I'd have to look that up. But I've heard about shutdowns before and also it seems a foregone conclusion this isn't something Trump invented. I also doubt he invented the idea of a US border wall.



Last edited by EzraS on 21 Dec 2018, 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Dec 2018, 11:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Maybe you see so much bs all the time because you seem to have a predilection for twisting what people say. It's just not worth the time trying to straighten it out. And if I did, you would probably then tell me I'm backpedaling.

I don't see BS all the time, just the specific claim you make about 'emotional detachment' giving you some unique insight.

Edit: Hell, I'm probably less emotionally attached to Donald than you are, I'm so emotionally unattached I could care less if a meteor came down and struck him in the head.


You've mentioned seeing calling bs a lot more times then that in various threads. It's obvious that a person viewing something in a detached manner is going to see things more objectively than someone who's full of strong emotional bias. This is where you replay with something like "Oh my how wonderful it must be for you to be totally detached and completely lacking any bias whatsoever unlike us mere mortals" or something along those lines.


See there's the problem: emotional detachment doesn't give you objectivity, logic and reason do. And the thing is, you can be emotionally passionate about something and still exercise logic and reason, they're not polar opposites, they're all part of how the human brain processes information. Here's an example: I've lost almost 20% of my assets in the stock market this year because of Trump's BS policies, if I'm not emotionally passionate about that then logic dictates I'm not long for this Earth because someone is taking food off of my table and I'm not responding to stop it. How's that for common sense truth?
Edit: and yes, I will take truth over objectivity any day of the week, one has value, the other is just wishy-washy BS people tell themselves to make them feel 'right'.

2nd Edit: And I also lost 8% in sales this year of my crops because of Trump's goddamn trade war. Exactly how 'objective' should I be when he's trashing my ability to live? How objective would you be if a bully came into your house, took the meal off your table, popped you in the face, took your piggy bank and said "I'm making you great"! How objective would you be Ezra?



Last edited by Aristophanes on 22 Dec 2018, 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

EzraS
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22 Dec 2018, 12:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe Mexico should pay for the wall at all.

It's the United State's idea. Mexico didn't consent to it.

If Mexico would pay for the wall, it would mean it's denying its sovereignty----its right to be a nation.


Don't several countries in a sense pay for government projects through tariffs and such?



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22 Dec 2018, 12:14 am

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Maybe you see so much bs all the time because you seem to have a predilection for twisting what people say. It's just not worth the time trying to straighten it out. And if I did, you would probably then tell me I'm backpedaling.

I don't see BS all the time, just the specific claim you make about 'emotional detachment' giving you some unique insight.

Edit: Hell, I'm probably less emotionally attached to Donald than you are, I'm so emotionally unattached I could care less if a meteor came down and struck him in the head.


You've mentioned seeing calling bs a lot more times then that in various threads. It's obvious that a person viewing something in a detached manner is going to see things more objectively than someone who's full of strong emotional bias. This is where you replay with something like "Oh my how wonderful it must be for you to be totally detached and completely lacking any bias whatsoever unlike us mere mortals" or something along those lines.


See there's the problem: emotional detachment doesn't give you objectivity, logic and reason do. And the thing is, you can be emotionally passionate about something and still exercise logic and reason, they're not polar opposites, they're all part of how the human brain processes information. Here's an example: I've lost almost 20% of my assets in the stock market this year because of Trump's BS policies, if I'm not emotionally passionate about that then logic dictates I'm not long for this Earth because someone is taking food off of my table and I'm not responding to stop it. How's that for common sense truth?
Edit: and yes, I will take truth over objectivity any day of the week, one has value, the other is just wishy-washy BS people tell themselves to make them feel 'right'.


It's easier to employ logic and reason when one isn't emotionally connected to a person or situation. That's seen when someone who's all upset posts in the haven. Those who are not emotionally affected are more able to calmly and logically assess the situation than the person who's all worked-up and stressed out. I've seen a huge amount of over the top highly emotional statements made regarding Trump. I don't expect those who are in such a state to apply much logic and reason. That's why it's referred to as a derangement syndrome. And not only are they seemingly always flying off the handle regarding Trump, they act that way towards others who don't display the same attitude and behavior.



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22 Dec 2018, 12:19 am

EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Maybe you see so much bs all the time because you seem to have a predilection for twisting what people say. It's just not worth the time trying to straighten it out. And if I did, you would probably then tell me I'm backpedaling.

I don't see BS all the time, just the specific claim you make about 'emotional detachment' giving you some unique insight.

Edit: Hell, I'm probably less emotionally attached to Donald than you are, I'm so emotionally unattached I could care less if a meteor came down and struck him in the head.


You've mentioned seeing calling bs a lot more times then that in various threads. It's obvious that a person viewing something in a detached manner is going to see things more objectively than someone who's full of strong emotional bias. This is where you replay with something like "Oh my how wonderful it must be for you to be totally detached and completely lacking any bias whatsoever unlike us mere mortals" or something along those lines.


See there's the problem: emotional detachment doesn't give you objectivity, logic and reason do. And the thing is, you can be emotionally passionate about something and still exercise logic and reason, they're not polar opposites, they're all part of how the human brain processes information. Here's an example: I've lost almost 20% of my assets in the stock market this year because of Trump's BS policies, if I'm not emotionally passionate about that then logic dictates I'm not long for this Earth because someone is taking food off of my table and I'm not responding to stop it. How's that for common sense truth?
Edit: and yes, I will take truth over objectivity any day of the week, one has value, the other is just wishy-washy BS people tell themselves to make them feel 'right'.


It's easier to employ logic and reason when one isn't emotionally connected to a person or situation. That's seen when someone who's all upset posts in the haven. Those who are not emotionally affected are more able to calmly and logically assess the situation than the person who's all worked-up and stressed out. I've seen a huge amount of over the top highly emotional statements made regarding Trump. I don't expect those who are in such a state to apply much logic and reason. That's why it's referred to as a derangement syndrome. And not only are they seemingly always flying off the handle regarding Trump, they act that way towards others who don't display the same attitude and behavior.


Trump is ruining me financially, and you're claiming it's Trump Derangement Syndrome? f**k you, seriously, from the bottom of my heart. When you grow up, get a job, and have to take care of yourself, maybe then you'll get it.

Edit: see, now you're seeing me emotional.



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22 Dec 2018, 12:33 am

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Maybe you see so much bs all the time because you seem to have a predilection for twisting what people say. It's just not worth the time trying to straighten it out. And if I did, you would probably then tell me I'm backpedaling.

I don't see BS all the time, just the specific claim you make about 'emotional detachment' giving you some unique insight.

Edit: Hell, I'm probably less emotionally attached to Donald than you are, I'm so emotionally unattached I could care less if a meteor came down and struck him in the head.


You've mentioned seeing calling bs a lot more times then that in various threads. It's obvious that a person viewing something in a detached manner is going to see things more objectively than someone who's full of strong emotional bias. This is where you replay with something like "Oh my how wonderful it must be for you to be totally detached and completely lacking any bias whatsoever unlike us mere mortals" or something along those lines.


See there's the problem: emotional detachment doesn't give you objectivity, logic and reason do. And the thing is, you can be emotionally passionate about something and still exercise logic and reason, they're not polar opposites, they're all part of how the human brain processes information. Here's an example: I've lost almost 20% of my assets in the stock market this year because of Trump's BS policies, if I'm not emotionally passionate about that then logic dictates I'm not long for this Earth because someone is taking food off of my table and I'm not responding to stop it. How's that for common sense truth?
Edit: and yes, I will take truth over objectivity any day of the week, one has value, the other is just wishy-washy BS people tell themselves to make them feel 'right'.


It's easier to employ logic and reason when one isn't emotionally connected to a person or situation. That's seen when someone who's all upset posts in the haven. Those who are not emotionally affected are more able to calmly and logically assess the situation than the person who's all worked-up and stressed out. I've seen a huge amount of over the top highly emotional statements made regarding Trump. I don't expect those who are in such a state to apply much logic and reason. That's why it's referred to as a derangement syndrome. And not only are they seemingly always flying off the handle regarding Trump, they act that way towards others who don't display the same attitude and behavior.


Trump is ruining me financially, and you're claiming it's Trump Derangement Syndrome? f**k you, seriously, from the bottom of my heart. When you grow up, get a job, and have to take care of yourself, maybe then you'll get it.



I am grown up. But I will never be able to get a job and take care of myself. I will be spending the rest of my life in a nursing home because of the severity of my autism and cerebral palsy like coordination disorder. Did you notice how I was able to calmly write that without lashing out at you? Also I know that my dad has been doing quite well in the stock market. So perhaps you have yourself to blame for your losses.



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22 Dec 2018, 12:35 am

5 billion=50 billion then 500 billion in the usual inflation of boondoggles, a boondoggle that the MAGAs seem to love for some mysterious reason even though it is coming straight outta their wallets. sucky priorities IMHO, that amount of money would pay for more pressing issues such as crumbling infrastructure or a real fix for our dysfunctional health care delivery system for starters. but MAGAs never get sick and never run into potholes and sinkholes and such.