Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on political influence of money

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goldfish21
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13 Feb 2019, 1:22 am

EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Yep. I just listened to a clip at a rally where trump says "America will never be a socialist country!" and the crowd cheers. Wtf? He has people cheering for not taxing the rich & for not having universal healthcare. THAT is cultish devotion.


Are you saying many Americans wouldn't cheer the statement of "America will never be a socialist country!" if someone else said it? Or wouldn't have cheered it before Trump became president?


I'm saying that the "socialist," things that trump opposes, like taxing the wealthy & providing healthcare for all citizens like most of the rest of the first world manages to do, are things that would benefit the very people that are cheering for not having them. The only reason to cheer something like that is because the guy saying the words has you under some sort of cult leader like spell.


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13 Feb 2019, 2:33 am

goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Yep. I just listened to a clip at a rally where trump says "America will never be a socialist country!" and the crowd cheers. Wtf? He has people cheering for not taxing the rich & for not having universal healthcare. THAT is cultish devotion.


Are you saying many Americans wouldn't cheer the statement of "America will never be a socialist country!" if someone else said it? Or wouldn't have cheered it before Trump became president?


I'm saying that the "socialist," things that trump opposes, like taxing the wealthy & providing healthcare for all citizens like most of the rest of the first world manages to do, are things that would benefit the very people that are cheering for not having them. The only reason to cheer something like that is because the guy saying the words has you under some sort of cult leader like spell.


Concepts like tax cuts and non-socialized medicine was popular among many millions of Americans before Trump.



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13 Feb 2019, 2:44 am

EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Yep. I just listened to a clip at a rally where trump says "America will never be a socialist country!" and the crowd cheers. Wtf? He has people cheering for not taxing the rich & for not having universal healthcare. THAT is cultish devotion.


Are you saying many Americans wouldn't cheer the statement of "America will never be a socialist country!" if someone else said it? Or wouldn't have cheered it before Trump became president?


I'm saying that the "socialist," things that trump opposes, like taxing the wealthy & providing healthcare for all citizens like most of the rest of the first world manages to do, are things that would benefit the very people that are cheering for not having them. The only reason to cheer something like that is because the guy saying the words has you under some sort of cult leader like spell.


Concepts like tax cuts and non-socialized medicine was popular among many millions of Americans before Trump.


I think the majority of Americans were against tax cuts for the rich, and non-socialized medicine.
Promises that just one more tax cut will lead to riches for all Americans, or that rugged individualism will make Americans soldier through illness and injury has never materialized.


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EzraS
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13 Feb 2019, 3:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Yep. I just listened to a clip at a rally where trump says "America will never be a socialist country!" and the crowd cheers. Wtf? He has people cheering for not taxing the rich & for not having universal healthcare. THAT is cultish devotion.


Are you saying many Americans wouldn't cheer the statement of "America will never be a socialist country!" if someone else said it? Or wouldn't have cheered it before Trump became president?


I'm saying that the "socialist," things that trump opposes, like taxing the wealthy & providing healthcare for all citizens like most of the rest of the first world manages to do, are things that would benefit the very people that are cheering for not having them. The only reason to cheer something like that is because the guy saying the words has you under some sort of cult leader like spell.


Concepts like tax cuts and non-socialized medicine was popular among many millions of Americans before Trump.


I think the majority of Americans were against tax cuts for the rich, and non-socialized medicine.
Promises that just one more tax cut will lead to riches for all Americans, or that rugged individualism will make Americans soldier through illness and injury has never materialized.


The tax cuts don't apply to only the rich. Although some seem to consider anyone earning beyond the minimum wage bracket as being rich according to their standard of living.

I've read people who barely make a living and therefore contributing very little to taxes, complaining about not getting a tax cut.

Many Americans have had to tough it out because they could not afford the huge premium gigantic deductible health insurance that Obamacare left them with.

What I heard in Trump's proposal was the plan to replace Obamacare with a system that had reduced premiums and deductibles.



It seems that got translated into him wanting to take away the nearly free subsidized health insurance low income and indigent people are getting.

While others are having to work overtime or a second job to be able to afford health insurance.

Although I have a relative who went the opposite route and became low income enough to get his healthcare covered.



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13 Feb 2019, 11:02 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Yep. I just listened to a clip at a rally where trump says "America will never be a socialist country!" and the crowd cheers. Wtf? He has people cheering for not taxing the rich & for not having universal healthcare. THAT is cultish devotion.


Are you saying many Americans wouldn't cheer the statement of "America will never be a socialist country!" if someone else said it? Or wouldn't have cheered it before Trump became president?


I'm saying that the "socialist," things that trump opposes, like taxing the wealthy & providing healthcare for all citizens like most of the rest of the first world manages to do, are things that would benefit the very people that are cheering for not having them. The only reason to cheer something like that is because the guy saying the words has you under some sort of cult leader like spell.


Concepts like tax cuts and non-socialized medicine was popular among many millions of Americans before Trump.


I think the majority of Americans were against tax cuts for the rich, and non-socialized medicine.
Promises that just one more tax cut will lead to riches for all Americans, or that rugged individualism will make Americans soldier through illness and injury has never materialized.


The tax cuts don't apply to only the rich. Although some seem to consider anyone earning beyond the minimum wage bracket as being rich according to their standard of living.

I've read people who barely make a living and therefore contributing very little to taxes, complaining about not getting a tax cut.

Many Americans have had to tough it out because they could not afford the huge premium gigantic deductible health insurance that Obamacare left them with.

What I heard in Trump's proposal was the plan to replace Obamacare with a system that had reduced premiums and deductibles.



It seems that got translated into him wanting to take away the nearly free subsidized health insurance low income and indigent people are getting.

While others are having to work overtime or a second job to be able to afford health insurance.

Although I have a relative who went the opposite route and became low income enough to get his healthcare covered.


My point about the tax cuts is that the great bulk of it went to those so wealthy that they hardly needed a cut. Despite the trickle down theory of the rich reinvesting those tax cuts into their businesses, most just keep that money out of circulation by hoarding it in savings accounts. As those rich people will probably never even use that money, it might as well be non-existent.
Trump was never going to replace Obamacare with anything. It was just a cynical con Trump was pulling on the country.


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13 Feb 2019, 11:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
My point about the tax cuts is that the great bulk of it went to those so wealthy that they hardly needed a cut. Despite the trickle down theory of the rich reinvesting those tax cuts into their businesses, most just keep that money out of circulation by hoarding it in savings accounts. As those rich people will probably never even use that money, it might as well be non-existent.


That sounds like a theory. I'd be interested in seeing some actual figures and so on.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump was never going to replace Obamacare with anything. It was just a cynical con Trump was pulling on the country.


Again that sounds like a theory. I'd like to see see some evidence of that.

Not that I'm asking you to provide it.

I realize though that those who have a passionate hatred towards Trump are going to see everything he does as pure evil.



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13 Feb 2019, 11:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
...My point about the tax cuts is that the great bulk of it went to those so wealthy that they hardly needed a cut. Despite the trickle down theory of the rich reinvesting those tax cuts into their businesses, most just keep that money out of circulation by hoarding it in savings accounts. As those rich people will probably never even use that money, it might as well be non-existent.
Trump was never going to replace Obamacare with anything. It was just a cynical con Trump was pulling on the country.

Let's call it what it is, theft on a massive scale.
One that increases our debt. Watch them turn around and pretend to care about the debt when anyone mentions a social program.



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13 Feb 2019, 11:26 am

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Kraichgauer
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13 Feb 2019, 3:05 pm

EzraS wrote:
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Trump is no Robin Hood, and it's hardly big government taking from ordinary people, but rather, that's the actions of business.
As for your charge that it's only theory that the ultra-wealthy don't reinvest their tax cut refunds, or that Trump had no intention of following through with better health care: no, it's absolutely true.


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13 Feb 2019, 3:06 pm

EzraS wrote:
Image

Image


Trump is no Robin Hood, and it's hardly big government taking from ordinary people, but rather, that's the actions of business.
As for your charge that it's only theory that the ultra-wealthy don't reinvest their tax cut refunds, or that Trump had no intention of following through with better health care: no, it's absolutely true.


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13 Feb 2019, 4:47 pm

AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Yes, false constructs. Divide and conquer. People ignore all the evidence that goes against their ideology. It's like a religion. Same with political parties.

It's science, the opposite of religious faith. I think people should just ignore your sociopathic propaganda.


:lol: Believing in false narratives or political parties even when the evidence destroys your narrative is "science"? LOL.


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13 Feb 2019, 4:54 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump can say any lie, and his followers will believe it. Many of them either dismiss his lack of personal morality, or even say that his affairs with Stormy Daniels and others, as well as his less than honest business dealings are "fake news." Just recently at El Paso, after Trump had whipped his fans into an anti-media frenzy, one of the red hats had attacked a BBC cameraman. That's not normal. That's a cultic devotion.


It could be said that there is a cultic devotion to MSM which is constantly whipping people into a frenzy, which generates zillions of dollars for them. The Jan 18th Lincoln Memorial incident was one of the best examples of that.


MSM... the stuff for arthritis?


I apologize for confusing you with an abbreviation. To clarify; mainstream media (MSM) is a term and abbreviation used to refer collectively to the various large mass news media that influence a large number of people, and both reflect and shape prevailing currents of thought.


The mainstream media hardly has a cultic following. They hardly have the ability to make people believe something that can't possibly be. Even a smoke-and-mirrors operation like Fox fesses up to spewing misinformation... eventually. But with Trump, you have him telling his MAGA hats at rallies that they shouldn't trust what they see or hear about him. The fact that so many of them then do it is the epitome of cultish devotion.


It's all about influence. The view of many regarding events that take place is influenced by the media. They read and or listen to a biased spin on things and go along with it. A lot of media whips people into a frenzy by over exaggerating and misleading people to generate revenue.

Leftist media is obviously on the attack regarding MAGA hat wearers as was clearly demonstrated by its coverage of the Jan 18th Lincoln Memorial incident. Not that it wasn't obvious before that.


The black Israelite douchebags were hardly whipped into a frenzy by the media, but were just douchebags. When the Native American guy tried to intervene between the two groups as a peace maker, the MAGA kids apparently didn't understand what he was doing. I fail to see how the the media had whipped up any of that.


Way to move the goalposts. They were calling the kids "fa**ots", "n**gers", called the black kid an "uncle Tom" and one of the Natives an "uncle Tomahawk". If white men in MAGA hats were talking like that the media would lose it and you'd be going nuts too.
The Native guy was banging the drum like an inch from the kid's ear, he did well not to lash out at him.

The media whipped up such hysteria and people like Kathy Griffin were pleading for the kid's address to be made public and there are left wing thugs looking for the poor kid. That's the insane media.


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13 Feb 2019, 5:53 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump can say any lie, and his followers will believe it. Many of them either dismiss his lack of personal morality, or even say that his affairs with Stormy Daniels and others, as well as his less than honest business dealings are "fake news." Just recently at El Paso, after Trump had whipped his fans into an anti-media frenzy, one of the red hats had attacked a BBC cameraman. That's not normal. That's a cultic devotion.


It could be said that there is a cultic devotion to MSM which is constantly whipping people into a frenzy, which generates zillions of dollars for them. The Jan 18th Lincoln Memorial incident was one of the best examples of that.


MSM... the stuff for arthritis?


I apologize for confusing you with an abbreviation. To clarify; mainstream media (MSM) is a term and abbreviation used to refer collectively to the various large mass news media that influence a large number of people, and both reflect and shape prevailing currents of thought.


The mainstream media hardly has a cultic following. They hardly have the ability to make people believe something that can't possibly be. Even a smoke-and-mirrors operation like Fox fesses up to spewing misinformation... eventually. But with Trump, you have him telling his MAGA hats at rallies that they shouldn't trust what they see or hear about him. The fact that so many of them then do it is the epitome of cultish devotion.


It's all about influence. The view of many regarding events that take place is influenced by the media. They read and or listen to a biased spin on things and go along with it. A lot of media whips people into a frenzy by over exaggerating and misleading people to generate revenue.

Leftist media is obviously on the attack regarding MAGA hat wearers as was clearly demonstrated by its coverage of the Jan 18th Lincoln Memorial incident. Not that it wasn't obvious before that.


The black Israelite douchebags were hardly whipped into a frenzy by the media, but were just douchebags. When the Native American guy tried to intervene between the two groups as a peace maker, the MAGA kids apparently didn't understand what he was doing. I fail to see how the the media had whipped up any of that.


Way to move the goalposts. They were calling the kids "fa**ots", "n**gers", called the black kid an "uncle Tom" and one of the Natives an "uncle Tomahawk". If white men in MAGA hats were talking like that the media would lose it and you'd be going nuts too.
The Native guy was banging the drum like an inch from the kid's ear, he did well not to lash out at him.

The media whipped up such hysteria and people like Kathy Griffin were pleading for the kid's address to be made public and there are left wing thugs looking for the poor kid. That's the insane media.


Nobody in the media defended what Eric Cartman would call, "black a$$holes," and in fact pointed that out that they had instigated trouble with the kids.
He was more than a little inch away from the kids ears.
The media in fact went on to explain the misunderstanding.


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EzraS
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13 Feb 2019, 6:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump is no Robin Hood, and it's hardly big government taking from ordinary people, but rather, that's the actions of business.
As for your charge that it's only theory that the ultra-wealthy don't reinvest their tax cut refunds, or that Trump had no intention of following through with better health care: no, it's absolutely true.


So that big chunk taken out of each paycheck that says "taxes" is the action of business and not government?
The ultra-wealthy are the 1%. what about the other 79% of earners who shoulder the majority of the tax burden?
I'm sure you believe in what you say, but I'd like to do some fact checking anyways.



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13 Feb 2019, 6:15 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump is no Robin Hood, and it's hardly big government taking from ordinary people, but rather, that's the actions of business.
As for your charge that it's only theory that the ultra-wealthy don't reinvest their tax cut refunds, or that Trump had no intention of following through with better health care: no, it's absolutely true.


So that big chunk taken out of each paycheck that says "taxes" is the action of business and not government?
The ultra-wealthy are the 1%. what about the other 79% of earners who shoulder the majority of the tax burden?
I'm sure you believe in what you say, but I'd like to do some fact checking anyways.


That chunk the government takes out of paychecks fuels social security, unemployment, etc, which Americans rely on.
The 1% have far more financial resources than the 79%, and can afford to be parted with what taxes they should pay. And yet, it's that 1% that pays little or no taxes, leaving the burden on everyone else.


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