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Kraichgauer
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16 Feb 2019, 3:32 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Are you trying tar the reputation of Elizabeth Warren's native ancestry by comparing her to Rachel Dolezal?

Yes, two peas in the same pod.


Dolezal, who had carried out her masquerade as an African American in my own home community of Spokane, bears little resemblance to Warren, who had been led to believe she was a native American by her own family. The proof in the pudding can be found in how these two women's families reacted to their claims.
Rachel Dolezal's own parents finally outed her for her lies to the Spokane news media.
Elizabeth Warren's family never questioned her claims, as they all believed the same thing.



Warren like me, and thousands of other white people, was told she had a Native American ancestor. She then proclaimed in writing that she was an American Indian and signed it.

I am quite sure that Warren is just as able to tell the difference between having an Indian ancestor and actually being an Indian as I am. Warren took her 1/1024th% and pretended it was 100%.

I don't think she was the least bit "mislead" or "confused" regarding the matter - any more than the thousands of us who had (or might have had) an Indian ancestor.


It all a matter of who and what one believes is his or her identity.


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cyberdad
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16 Feb 2019, 3:35 am

EzraS wrote:
Then how do you explain all the whites who adopt date marry and procreate with non-whites? It's said there are thousands of whites who have a Native American ancestor.


kraftiekortie wrote:
I’m white.

I accept my black wife into my “space.”


I am speaking about societies/communities as a whole rather than individuals. Yeah I have a non-white wife too...I remember the disappointment in my parent's faces when I told them...having a non-white child with autism is like compounding the likelihood of social ostracism I guess...

My wife/daughter live in our own space, I've essentially divorced my white extended family



Kraichgauer
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16 Feb 2019, 3:41 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Then how do you explain all the whites who adopt date marry and procreate with non-whites? It's said there are thousands of whites who have a Native American ancestor.


kraftiekortie wrote:
I’m white.

I accept my black wife into my “space.”


I am speaking about societies/communities as a whole rather than individuals. Yeah I have a non-white wife too...I remember the disappointment in my parent's faces when I told them...having a non-white child with autism is like compounding the likelihood of social ostracism I guess...

My wife/daughter live in our own space, I've essentially divorced my white extended family


Your wife and child Are your family first and foremost.


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EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 3:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Warren conceded she had labored under an untruth for years.


What was the untruth?



cyberdad
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16 Feb 2019, 3:45 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
It all a matter of who and what one believes is his or her identity.

Precisely...that was my point about being indigenous. It's all about your intention. The Australian aborigines accept anybody into their communities if they sincerely feel part of the community.



Kraichgauer
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16 Feb 2019, 4:23 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Warren conceded she had labored under an untruth for years.


What was the untruth?


That she was in large part of Cherokee descent. Y'know, what we've been discussing here for far too long.


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Kraichgauer
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16 Feb 2019, 4:24 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It all a matter of who and what one believes is his or her identity.

Precisely...that was my point about being indigenous. It's all about your intention. The Australian aborigines accept anybody into their communities if they sincerely feel part of the community.


Truly wonderful people. Something we all should strive for.


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EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 4:40 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Warren conceded she had labored under an untruth for years.


What was the untruth?


That she was in large part of Cherokee descent. Y'know, what we've been discussing here for far too long.


From what I ascertained from having just listened to Warren and her family talking about it in a video, her grandmother might have been part Cherokee. That doesn't make a parson an American Indian and I think she knew that perfectly well all along.

You're right though, you arguing she didn't know that she wasn't really an American Indian has gone on far too long.



Kraichgauer
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16 Feb 2019, 5:21 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Warren conceded she had labored under an untruth for years.


What was the untruth?


That she was in large part of Cherokee descent. Y'know, what we've been discussing here for far too long.


From what I ascertained from having just listened to Warren and her family talking about it in a video, her grandmother might have been part Cherokee. That doesn't make a parson an American Indian and I think she knew that perfectly well all along.

You're right though, you arguing she didn't know that she wasn't really an American Indian has gone on far too long.


I'm only continue to argue because this woman, Elizabeth Warren, who has fought for years to enforce consumer protection, and against the oligarchy, would have any chance of standing up for the average citizen destroyed over an absurd issue. Seriously, looking at her accomplishments, is her claiming to be a Native American so terrible to negate all that?


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cyberdad
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16 Feb 2019, 5:21 am

EzraS wrote:
From what I ascertained from having just listened to Warren and her family talking about it in a video, her grandmother might have been part Cherokee.

This makes Trump's crack about her being "Pochahontas" all the more deplorable

EzraS wrote:
doesn't make a parson an American Indian and I think she knew that perfectly well all along.

Who decides this? it seems the final arbiter of who a person's race they belong appears to be middle aged white men?



EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 6:29 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Are you trying tar the reputation of Elizabeth Warren's native ancestry by comparing her to Rachel Dolezal?

Yes, two peas in the same pod.


Dolezal, who had carried out her masquerade as an African American in my own home community of Spokane, bears little resemblance to Warren, who had been led to believe she was a native American by her own family. The proof in the pudding can be found in how these two women's families reacted to their claims.
Rachel Dolezal's own parents finally outed her for her lies to the Spokane news media.
Elizabeth Warren's family never questioned her claims, as they all believed the same thing.



Warren like me, and thousands of other white people, was told she had a Native American ancestor. She then proclaimed in writing that she was an American Indian and signed it.

I am quite sure that Warren is just as able to tell the difference between having an Indian ancestor and actually being an Indian as I am. Warren took her 1/1024th% and pretended it was 100%.

I don't think she was the least bit "mislead" or "confused" regarding the matter - any more than the thousands of us who had (or might have had) an Indian ancestor.


It all a matter of who and what one believes is his or her identity.


She was lying.



kraftiekortie
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16 Feb 2019, 6:54 am

She was trying to gain the affirmative action advantage.



EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 6:57 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
From what I ascertained from having just listened to Warren and her family talking about it in a video, her grandmother might have been part Cherokee.

This makes Trump's crack about her being "Pochahontas" all the more deplorable.


Why because Pocahontas was a Powhatan? Here in the US Pocahontas is as much of an icon and pop culture figure as a real person, like Cleopatra for instance.

As a matter of fact, in my video game I obtained what looks sort of like a leather kilt or dress. I decided to outfit my only female character with it. Then I was thinking about what to add to it. And I thought, how about that headband to give her a Pocahontas look. I didn't realize it until after I thought it. You think female Indian, the name Pocahontas pops into your head.


cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
doesn't make a parson an American Indian and I think she knew that perfectly well all along.
Who decides this?


American Indian tribal government and commonsense.

cyberdad wrote:
it seems the final arbiter of who a person's race they belong appears to be middle aged white men?


It was so obvious Warren was pretending even Trump could see it.

If I ever start pretending I'm an American Indian, because maybe my great grandparent was part Sioux, feel free to call me Sitting Bull.


Image

I thought of this as the Pocahontas look.

Too bad I can't equip a Rune-Keeper with a bow.



AspE
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16 Feb 2019, 9:40 am

cyberdad wrote:
Who decides this? it seems the final arbiter of who a person's race they belong appears to be middle aged white men?

Native American tribes decide who qualifies for membership. Having a distant native ancestor also doesn't make you a Native American, much less a Cherokee. This is akin to the "one drop" rule where white people would call you black if you had a single black ancestor. It's wrong, and Warren was wrong to claim this, although she has been making amends lately. She's not a Native American, and she's certainly not a Cherokee. And I'm aligned with practically all of her political views. She can claim a Native American ancestor, that's it.



EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 9:56 am

At an Indian craft fare I was at there was a list of rules.

One of them was, please don't pester the vendors by telling them you are part Cherokee Indian.