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kraftiekortie
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16 Feb 2019, 11:28 am

Pocahontas was a real person. Powhatan was her father.



MushroomPrincess
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16 Feb 2019, 1:47 pm

DystopianShadows wrote:
He wasn't referring to anything except the campaign trail, folks. You're reading WAY too much into this.

Why do you think the word "TRAIL" was capitalized for emphasis?



ASPartOfMe
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16 Feb 2019, 3:23 pm

EzraS wrote:
At an Indian craft fare I was at there was a list of rules.

One of them was, please don't pester the vendors by telling them you are part Cherokee Indian.


Stealing identity has gotten that widespread that this rule had to be made. Damn


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EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 3:25 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Pocahontas was a real person. Powhatan was her father.


Of course Pocahontas was a real person. But she is also a pop culture icon like Cleopatra. Many know the name, but probably don't know much about the actual person.

Powhatan was the chief of the Powhatan tribal nation.



EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 3:30 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
EzraS wrote:
At an Indian craft fare I was at there was a list of rules.

One of them was, please don't pester the vendors by telling them you are part Cherokee Indian.


Stealing identity has gotten that widespread that this rule had to be made. Damn


I think it's just that a lot of people in the western half of the US had or were told they had a Cherokee ancestor. I took the rule as more of a tongue-in-cheek thing because they get tired of hearing that from tourists.



lostonearth35
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16 Feb 2019, 3:45 pm

A joke is supposed to be mutually funny. So if a person's joke doesn't make the other person laugh, then their idea of what a joke is is pretty messed up.

And that's all I have to say about that.



EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 3:49 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
EzraS wrote:
At an Indian craft fare I was at there was a list of rules.

One of them was, please don't pester the vendors by telling them you are part Cherokee Indian.


Stealing identity has gotten that widespread that this rule had to be made. Damn


Maybe because in old westerns there were Indian characters who were trail scouts. There are a lot of things named Indian Trail like schools, facilities, stores etc.



Kraichgauer
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16 Feb 2019, 5:09 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Are you trying tar the reputation of Elizabeth Warren's native ancestry by comparing her to Rachel Dolezal?

Yes, two peas in the same pod.


Dolezal, who had carried out her masquerade as an African American in my own home community of Spokane, bears little resemblance to Warren, who had been led to believe she was a native American by her own family. The proof in the pudding can be found in how these two women's families reacted to their claims.
Rachel Dolezal's own parents finally outed her for her lies to the Spokane news media.
Elizabeth Warren's family never questioned her claims, as they all believed the same thing.



Warren like me, and thousands of other white people, was told she had a Native American ancestor. She then proclaimed in writing that she was an American Indian and signed it.

I am quite sure that Warren is just as able to tell the difference between having an Indian ancestor and actually being an Indian as I am. Warren took her 1/1024th% and pretended it was 100%.

I don't think she was the least bit "mislead" or "confused" regarding the matter - any more than the thousands of us who had (or might have had) an Indian ancestor.


It all a matter of who and what one believes is his or her identity.


She was lying.


How do you know she's lying about it? Can you read her mind?
Author Robert E. Howard clearly identified himself as an Irish American, even though his biographer, L. Sprague De Camp, had since learned from Howard's relatives that their family was mostly English with only some Irish. Does that make the late Robert E. Howard a liar, or does it simply mean that that was the identity for what ever reason he embraced?
Who you think you are determines your identity much more than who your DNA says you are.


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cyberdad
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16 Feb 2019, 5:27 pm

AspE wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Who decides this? it seems the final arbiter of who a person's race they belong appears to be middle aged white men?

Native American tribes decide who qualifies for membership. Having a distant native ancestor also doesn't make you a Native American, much less a Cherokee. This is akin to the "one drop" rule where white people would call you black if you had a single black ancestor. It's wrong, and Warren was wrong to claim this, although she has been making amends lately. She's not a Native American, and she's certainly not a Cherokee. And I'm aligned with practically all of her political views. She can claim a Native American ancestor, that's it.

So do native americans demand some native ancestry? drop or drops? Australian aboriginals don't recognise the concept of blood/race as that was introduced by the British



cyberdad
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16 Feb 2019, 5:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
How do you know she's lying about it? Can you read her mind?

I think since she's a democrat that automatically qualifies her as a liar :lol: .

In contrast Donald "pinocchio" Trump can't get through a day without lying on twitter. But of course that's fake news :roll:



AspE
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16 Feb 2019, 5:36 pm

cyberdad wrote:
So do native americans demand some native ancestry? drop or drops? Australian aboriginals don't recognise the concept of blood/race as that was introduced by the British

There is no universal standard. It's from half to 1/16, depending on the tribe, and/or many require genealogy documentation.



cyberdad
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16 Feb 2019, 5:42 pm

AspE wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
So do native americans demand some native ancestry? drop or drops? Australian aboriginals don't recognise the concept of blood/race as that was introduced by the British

There is no universal standard. It's from half to 1/16, depending on the tribe, and/or many require genealogy documentation.

Interesting, so having a distant ancestor makes a difference to them? sounds like "white man one drop" thinking contaminating their culture



EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 8:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Are you trying tar the reputation of Elizabeth Warren's native ancestry by comparing her to Rachel Dolezal?

Yes, two peas in the same pod.


Dolezal, who had carried out her masquerade as an African American in my own home community of Spokane, bears little resemblance to Warren, who had been led to believe she was a native American by her own family. The proof in the pudding can be found in how these two women's families reacted to their claims.
Rachel Dolezal's own parents finally outed her for her lies to the Spokane news media.
Elizabeth Warren's family never questioned her claims, as they all believed the same thing.



Warren like me, and thousands of other white people, was told she had a Native American ancestor. She then proclaimed in writing that she was an American Indian and signed it.

I am quite sure that Warren is just as able to tell the difference between having an Indian ancestor and actually being an Indian as I am. Warren took her 1/1024th% and pretended it was 100%.

I don't think she was the least bit "mislead" or "confused" regarding the matter - any more than the thousands of us who had (or might have had) an Indian ancestor.


It all a matter of who and what one believes is his or her identity.


She was lying.


How do you know she's lying about it? Can you read her mind?
Author Robert E. Howard clearly identified himself as an Irish American, even though his biographer, L. Sprague De Camp, had since learned from Howard's relatives that their family was mostly English with only some Irish. Does that make the late Robert E. Howard a liar, or does it simply mean that that was the identity for what ever reason he embraced?
Who you think you are determines your identity much more than who your DNA says you are.


It's a foregone conclusion that she was trying to take advantage of affirmative action.



EzraS
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16 Feb 2019, 9:01 pm

cyberdad wrote:
AspE wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
So do native americans demand some native ancestry? drop or drops? Australian aboriginals don't recognise the concept of blood/race as that was introduced by the British

There is no universal standard. It's from half to 1/16, depending on the tribe, and/or many require genealogy documentation.

Interesting, so having a distant ancestor makes a difference to them? sounds like "white man one drop" thinking contaminating their culture


Not too distant. In many cases it needs to be a parent or at least a grandparent. It's not centered on "white" though. The same requirement applies to someone of any ethnicity. Even native ethnicity. An Apache is an Apache, a Cherokee is a Cherokee. I don't know about Australian aboriginals, but American natives have always had separate tribal nations. Often two different tribes were enemies. Different tribes had/have different languages and customs. Different attire. Different ways of making things etc.



Kraichgauer
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16 Feb 2019, 9:08 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Are you trying tar the reputation of Elizabeth Warren's native ancestry by comparing her to Rachel Dolezal?

Yes, two peas in the same pod.


Dolezal, who had carried out her masquerade as an African American in my own home community of Spokane, bears little resemblance to Warren, who had been led to believe she was a native American by her own family. The proof in the pudding can be found in how these two women's families reacted to their claims.
Rachel Dolezal's own parents finally outed her for her lies to the Spokane news media.
Elizabeth Warren's family never questioned her claims, as they all believed the same thing.



Warren like me, and thousands of other white people, was told she had a Native American ancestor. She then proclaimed in writing that she was an American Indian and signed it.

I am quite sure that Warren is just as able to tell the difference between having an Indian ancestor and actually being an Indian as I am. Warren took her 1/1024th% and pretended it was 100%.

I don't think she was the least bit "mislead" or "confused" regarding the matter - any more than the thousands of us who had (or might have had) an Indian ancestor.


It all a matter of who and what one believes is his or her identity.


She was lying.


How do you know she's lying about it? Can you read her mind?
Author Robert E. Howard clearly identified himself as an Irish American, even though his biographer, L. Sprague De Camp, had since learned from Howard's relatives that their family was mostly English with only some Irish. Does that make the late Robert E. Howard a liar, or does it simply mean that that was the identity for what ever reason he embraced?
Who you think you are determines your identity much more than who your DNA says you are.


It's a foregone conclusion that she was trying to take advantage of affirmative action.


Sure, but that doesn't mean she couldn't also have legitimately identified as a Native American.


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