Leaving Neverland - what do you think?
12 Mar 2019, 8:30 am
I think he's weirdly guilty. Not guilty like a regular molester but I think he had sex with underage boys.
What I mean is - he wasn't a calculating, adult minded, evil predator like Jimmy Saville. He had the mindset of a child himself and really should have had someone living with him, looking after him, making sure he didn't have sex, plastic surgery etc. I don't know if his childhood messed him up or if he was always like that. But he seems so young that an equal relationship was almost impossible for him to get into.
But I do think he did it.
Interestingly, this documentary seems nice to him but convinced me he molested kids. Not even sure molest is the right word when he seems so young himself mentally. The ITV documentary made me think he was innocent just because Bashir was horrible to him over things which were either victimless (him being interested in weird things like keeping a pet monkey or living in a fairground) or where he was the victim (his 'need' for plastic surgery, his abuse from his dad). Bashir should have been nice to him on everything except the paedo allegations and the way he treated his own kids.
I know from experience from my teenage years (don't want to get into that here), the way these people operate is that they convince the kid it's a naughty but still regular relationship. That brainwashing carries on into adult life. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason these guys came forward was having kids almost the same age they were and seeing just how young that really is. They were probably, weird as this seems, in love with MJ.
Although a seven year old, believing in werewolves and Peter Pan... ew. That really is something unusual and gross and all kinds of wrong even by paedo standards. Those boys weren't ready for any sort of relationship, let alone one with an adult.
By the way has Culkin ever said anything about all this? I might be stupid in asking that. I'm only 30 so a lot of this stuff was being reported on when I was a little kid back in the 90s.
12 Mar 2019, 8:45 am
Interesting thing I have read about pedophilia and what I have noticed about them is they all seem to be child like and also have immaturity and their sexuality happens to be immature too so that makes them like children in a inappropriate way. Some have to fight this every single day of their lives and even keep themselves away from kids because they are too triggering while other pedophiles do not get that children cannot consent and that the law isn't there because we are too conservative about kids having relationships. Plus they will even admit to pedophilia without calling themselves a pedophile.
Gee, is this why some people think every child like person is a pedophile? My ex was one of these idiots too. He used to tell me "People will think you are a pedophile" about lot of stuff I was doing like looking at toys or going to a G rated movie, etc. First of all, I have never been chased with pitch forks for doing these things so I am not very concerned nor do I care what a stranger is going to think. I have never been harassed or chased out of a store before for purchasing a toy at the counter. Like I say, only an idiot would think this way.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
12 Mar 2019, 9:47 am
^ If you're cis then people won't think it of you.
It's unfortunate but as .5% of the male population and .3% of the female population are paedos, and the news is all about creepy old men, people don't see childlike women as paedos, more like potential victims.
It's the men (and trans women) society sees as threats. Statistics vaguely back up that you need to be more wary of weird men than weird women but … there aren't many paedos to begin with and it's unfair that men aren't 'allowed' to show their childlike sides.
And yes I think there are two kinds of paedo. 1 is the Saville type, a predator who wants to hurt someone and kids are the victims. 2 is someone who really lacks impulse control, has a young emotional age and shouldn't be allowed to have sex, like Michael Jackson. I don't think 2 sets out to hurt kids, although of course they are hurting kids.
12 Mar 2019, 10:11 am
Not all pedos want to hurt kids nor do they want to have sex with them. The ones we hear about are the predators or the ones who have offended. It's hard to do a study on this accurately when many of them won't come out when they have not done anything wrong. There are pedos out there who have never acted on their urges and don't ever want to. This is just a common stereotype that they all go out and hunt down children and have sex with them or that they all posses in child porn and stalk kids. But I do believe all of them relieve it in some way by drawing it or writing it or fantasizing it and that's it.
And it boggles my mind why someone online would put this label on themselves if they are asexual and non sexually attracted to kids. I think they just have POCD instead. I never thought of myself as a pedophile nor concerned when I preferred younger kids and liked them when I was a teenager. I wasn't sexual then and didn't want to have sex with anyone nor did I want to dingle around with kids. Then there is this minor I have seen on Twitter saying they like younger kids under age ten but yet are asexual and I am like "How the hell would they know they are a pedophile if they don't have sexual urges and even at that age I liked young children but I never wanted to f**k them and I never called myself a pedo for it." I just think that kid has POCD. Maybe the reason why I was never concerned I was a pedophile or not was because I thought back then pedophilia was dingling with kids and I didn't know the term then except child molester. Then when I did hear the term pedophile in high school, I thought it meant child molester and someone who wants to have sex with kids and because I never wanted to do that stuff, I was no pedophile. But with all the information out there on pedophilia on you can access online, now people with OCD might start obsessing about it worrying if they are a pedophile. "OMG, I just checked out that kid's butt, I must be a pedophile" and obsess about that incident and they keep finding other things out there that keep reinforcing that compulsion. Then they go online and keep reading about it and that keeps reinforcing it and then they decide "Alright I admit it, I am a pedophile, best to just admit it so I won't keep worrying about it."
So I think some MAPS out there just have OCD and have convinced themselves they are a pedophile. If they are in therapy, good for them, that way their therapist will help them with this thought and help them sort it out. Just like how I had convinced myself I was a sociopath and I was a good one because I never want to hurt people and never will. Best to admit it than obsessing about it you know. But I think the stigma on pedophilia is worse than sociopath or else I would have been trolled and harassed online for admitting to being a sociopath. Plus I never put that label on my profile like pedophiles do. And there are no sociopath hunters.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
12 Mar 2019, 10:18 am
A "typical molester" would not be open with the sleepovers and answer naive in interviews "off course" if someone ask him if that´s really appropiate to let little boys sleep in his bed. A "typical molester" would not build a Neverland and climb up to the end of the tree and go around in different carousels alone at night if he´s just into sex with small boys.
A "typical molester" would NOT be childish in any way to hide any suspicions from other people, certainly no toys everywhere and amusementpark in his own garden, he would be certainly be dominant in some form that his own family and friends and workers would tell people about in interviews but they hasn´t. Corey Feldman and M Culkin always declined that they were in anyway molested of MJ, MJ´s own children never had said anything about those things either and not MJ´s friends children either.
The maid, correct if I´m wrong, was accused long back for stealing stuff from MJ´s house, so she had to go. Now, when he´s dead she tells that she found used underwear and was very suspicious of him being a childmolester.
All these 3 people, the maid, the 2 guys from the documentary has something to gain to accuse MJ - money and publicity. They are not successful themselves and need money and now several years after his death it´s a great time to ask for it.
They also never had done any lie detector tests that would help them, which I hope they do as soon as possible to get their stories true. People will support them if they do it and would end their never ending support of MJ, but as it is for now, the documentary is very very one sided.
Child molesters tend to not see anything wrong with what they are doing. They might view it as "innocent" or "loving", because that's how they justify what they do to themselves. MJ proudly admitting he sleeps with kids shows this.
As far as your second point goes, it's extremely common for child molesters to have childlike interests and use those interests to their advantage when it comes to finding their prey. MJ having a childlike nature doesn't contradict him being a predator, as the two go hand in hand.
12 Mar 2019, 10:40 am
A "typical molester" would not be open with the sleepovers and answer naive in interviews "off course" if someone ask him if that´s really appropiate to let little boys sleep in his bed. A "typical molester" would not build a Neverland and climb up to the end of the tree and go around in different carousels alone at night if he´s just into sex with small boys.
A "typical molester" would NOT be childish in any way to hide any suspicions from other people, certainly no toys everywhere and amusementpark in his own garden, he would be certainly be dominant in some form that his own family and friends and workers would tell people about in interviews but they hasn´t. Corey Feldman and M Culkin always declined that they were in anyway molested of MJ, MJ´s own children never had said anything about those things either and not MJ´s friends children either.
The maid, correct if I´m wrong, was accused long back for stealing stuff from MJ´s house, so she had to go. Now, when he´s dead she tells that she found used underwear and was very suspicious of him being a childmolester.
All these 3 people, the maid, the 2 guys from the documentary has something to gain to accuse MJ - money and publicity. They are not successful themselves and need money and now several years after his death it´s a great time to ask for it.
They also never had done any lie detector tests that would help them, which I hope they do as soon as possible to get their stories true. People will support them if they do it and would end their never ending support of MJ, but as it is for now, the documentary is very very one sided.
Child molesters tend to not see anything wrong with what they are doing. They might view it as "innocent" or "loving", because that's how they justify what they do to themselves. MJ proudly admitting he sleeps with kids shows this.
As far as your second point goes, it's extremely common for child molesters to have childlike interests and use those interests to their advantage when it comes to finding their prey. MJ having a childlike nature doesn't contradict him being a predator, as the two go hand in hand.
Being AROUND children and being let say a kindergarden teacher is common among these people. But you rarely find them at dollhouse/barbie/starwars gatherings or when they buying a big plush toy to themselves. I think if a person are a childmolester he/she will hide it very well. Could be your teacher, your doctor, someone who learn kids playing fotball. They not interested in having toys and being childish themselves, they only see the sexthing and the children they can dominate.
_________________
Beauty is fleeting, but a rent-controlled apartment overlooking the city is forever
12 Mar 2019, 11:36 am
Most child predators will befriend the parents as a way to get to the child. If they become friends with the parents, they also become friends with their children. MJ had this privilege of being famous and having lots of money so he used that to open Neverland to get kids to him and because he had so many fans, he gained parents trust automatically, he didn't have to befriend any parents. Plus he had an abusive childhood and didn't get to be a kid so there is another cover up he has and people will defend him. Many child like people who are not predators do not do these things.
There seem to be many child predators in Hollywood and it's always covered up. I even found out about R kelly too, Dan Schneider, and others I can't think of right now.
You are right though that some will become doctors or teachers, coaches, etc to get to the child. MJ Just had the money to open the Neverland Ranch and invite kids there.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
13 Mar 2019, 11:37 am
^ in one way I think to that 'so what?' MJ was hardly usual. Like one of the victims said, the grooming started from before they even knew him as they felt they 'knew' him and so did the families.
But in another - it's surprising he's never been accused of incest but had two sons who he spent a lot of time as the single father of.
I think he was a bad father of those two boys, and their sister/his daughter in other ways though. It isn't healthy to spend your childhood wearing a literal mask whenever you go out in public.
13 Mar 2019, 4:12 pm
I wonder if he did the mask thing so people wouldn't recognize them and it was to protect them so they would have private lives. I know other celebrities have kept their kids out of the media so no one would recognize them and I wonder how they avoided them being photographed and being put in gossip mags.
I used to be in a yahoo group (I think it still exists and I might still be in it but haven't visited it since my late teen years) and it had photos of celebrity kids and I think they were all personal photos taken by people who spotted them and they would post them there in the group. It was called Famous Rugrats or something.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
14 Mar 2019, 9:03 am
A "typical molester" would not be open with the sleepovers and answer naive in interviews "off course" if someone ask him if that´s really appropiate to let little boys sleep in his bed. A "typical molester" would not build a Neverland and climb up to the end of the tree and go around in different carousels alone at night if he´s just into sex with small boys.
A "typical molester" would NOT be childish in any way to hide any suspicions from other people, certainly no toys everywhere and amusementpark in his own garden, he would be certainly be dominant in some form that his own family and friends and workers would tell people about in interviews but they hasn´t. Corey Feldman and M Culkin always declined that they were in anyway molested of MJ, MJ´s own children never had said anything about those things either and not MJ´s friends children either.
The maid, correct if I´m wrong, was accused long back for stealing stuff from MJ´s house, so she had to go. Now, when he´s dead she tells that she found used underwear and was very suspicious of him being a childmolester.
All these 3 people, the maid, the 2 guys from the documentary has something to gain to accuse MJ - money and publicity. They are not successful themselves and need money and now several years after his death it´s a great time to ask for it.
They also never had done any lie detector tests that would help them, which I hope they do as soon as possible to get their stories true. People will support them if they do it and would end their never ending support of MJ, but as it is for now, the documentary is very very one sided.
Child molesters tend to not see anything wrong with what they are doing. They might view it as "innocent" or "loving", because that's how they justify what they do to themselves. MJ proudly admitting he sleeps with kids shows this.
As far as your second point goes, it's extremely common for child molesters to have childlike interests and use those interests to their advantage when it comes to finding their prey. MJ having a childlike nature doesn't contradict him being a predator, as the two go hand in hand.
Being AROUND children and being let say a kindergarden teacher is common among these people. But you rarely find them at dollhouse/barbie/starwars gatherings or when they buying a big plush toy to themselves. I think if a person are a childmolester he/she will hide it very well. Could be your teacher, your doctor, someone who learn kids playing fotball. They not interested in having toys and being childish themselves, they only see the sexthing and the children they can dominate.
I think that's a pretty black-and-white way to look at things. The way I see it, MJ was genuinely interested in childlike activities and gravitated towards children for that reason, but he also had sexually inappropriate urges towards them that he couldn't ignore. It was a little bit of both.
14 Mar 2019, 9:24 am
A "typical molester" would not be open with the sleepovers and answer naive in interviews "off course" if someone ask him if that´s really appropiate to let little boys sleep in his bed. A "typical molester" would not build a Neverland and climb up to the end of the tree and go around in different carousels alone at night if he´s just into sex with small boys.
A "typical molester" would NOT be childish in any way to hide any suspicions from other people, certainly no toys everywhere and amusementpark in his own garden, he would be certainly be dominant in some form that his own family and friends and workers would tell people about in interviews but they hasn´t. Corey Feldman and M Culkin always declined that they were in anyway molested of MJ, MJ´s own children never had said anything about those things either and not MJ´s friends children either.
The maid, correct if I´m wrong, was accused long back for stealing stuff from MJ´s house, so she had to go. Now, when he´s dead she tells that she found used underwear and was very suspicious of him being a childmolester.
All these 3 people, the maid, the 2 guys from the documentary has something to gain to accuse MJ - money and publicity. They are not successful themselves and need money and now several years after his death it´s a great time to ask for it.
They also never had done any lie detector tests that would help them, which I hope they do as soon as possible to get their stories true. People will support them if they do it and would end their never ending support of MJ, but as it is for now, the documentary is very very one sided.
Child molesters tend to not see anything wrong with what they are doing. They might view it as "innocent" or "loving", because that's how they justify what they do to themselves. MJ proudly admitting he sleeps with kids shows this.
As far as your second point goes, it's extremely common for child molesters to have childlike interests and use those interests to their advantage when it comes to finding their prey. MJ having a childlike nature doesn't contradict him being a predator, as the two go hand in hand.
Being AROUND children and being let say a kindergarden teacher is common among these people. But you rarely find them at dollhouse/barbie/starwars gatherings or when they buying a big plush toy to themselves. I think if a person are a childmolester he/she will hide it very well. Could be your teacher, your doctor, someone who learn kids playing fotball. They not interested in having toys and being childish themselves, they only see the sexthing and the children they can dominate.
I think that's a pretty black-and-white way to look at things. The way I see it, MJ was genuinely interested in childlike activities and gravitated towards children for that reason, but he also had sexually inappropriate urges towards them that he couldn't ignore. It was a little bit of both.
Could be, but the big question is still why none of them are willing to do a lie detector test then? If i was the victim that was called "fraud" like Wade I would gladly just do it.
Watch the trial with MJ when he get free of ALL 10 allegations, if he were guilty something would come up back then too. It didn't.
_________________
Beauty is fleeting, but a rent-controlled apartment overlooking the city is forever
14 Mar 2019, 9:30 am
...Ad far as MJ'd alleged molestation not involving Culkin and Corey - They had fame and money. They had that to protect them. They were active peers, as successful show-biz performers - even as child/youthful performers, already famous apart from him.
_________________
Renal kidney failure, congestive heart failure, COPD. Can't really get up from a floor position unhelped anymore:-(.
One of the walking wounded ~ SMASHED DOWN by life and age, now prevented from even expressing myself! SOB.
" Oh, no! First you have to PROVE you deserve to go away to college! " ~ My mother, 1978 (the heyday of Andy Gibb and Player). I would still like to go.
My life destroyed by Thorazine and Mellaril - and rape - and the Psychiatric/Industrial Complex. SOB:-(! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!
14 Mar 2019, 11:58 am
I got very conflicted feelings... I did do some research and especially Wade Robson's story seems to be full of holes and lies. Like the final goal here is definitely monetary gain, which would totally be justifiably. So they had to spin it in the way that the documentary shows, so while I think a lot of it is embellishment; if even a fraction of it is true, it would be inexcusable.
14 Mar 2019, 7:52 pm
Didn't Robson basically say the same things in Leaving Neverland that he did in the Oprah interview years earlier?
My guess it that since MeToo began, he feels that he is more likely to be believed.
_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!
Now proficient in ChatGPT!
